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Relaxation of restrictions

Red Alert

Simon Harris curiously made a comment that there was a limit to how long people could put up with extreme level of restrictions as we currently have. Already we’re seeing in Italy that people are starting to get restless. So two big questions:

1) on Easter Sunday, do you think there will be further restrictions, no change with just an extension or some relaxation?

2) what will be the first thing rolled back?

My own guess would be: extension for at least 1 week. Then to allow some businesses like DIY shops to reopen, perhaps allow gatherings of 2/3 people, maybe a token increase on 2km.

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Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Will Clever Jellybean wrote: »

Imagine being so selfish to think that your life is worth more than another persons entertainment. Absolute scum of the earth, worse than Hitler. :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

"Entertainment"..? Eh, we're not just talking about sacrificing a trip to the cinema here.

KiKi III

lord quackinton wrote: »

The “war will be won” when we decide to let those who want to fight this virus go about their lives as normal

Let those who want to isolate do so too

We cannot ask that the large majority have their lives destroyed to protect the very small numbers who will die from this

Surely even those at risk cannot be so selfish as to demand that 99% of Irish people accept economic depression the likes not seen since the Great Depression

Time to open up

It’s not one or the other, save the economy or save lives. The economy is fücked either way.

Tourism is dependent on people from other countries.So are our airlines. Our farmers are dependent on exports.So are other food production companies. So are alcohol companies. So is most of our manufacturing.

We are an export-led economy. Opening up our economy and letting the virus ravage our senior citizens and people with underlying conditions will do fück all good for any of them.

When all the above industries are decimated there’s an impact on how much money people have to spend at the pub or the shoe shop the hairdresser or the nail salon so the Main Street is in trouble too.

People who just want to open the economy up seem to think that’s a panacea and it’s not. We’re in for a recession either way.

Paddygreen

Beware of Greeks bearing gifts.

Downlinz

lord quackinton wrote: »

The “war will be won” when we decide to let those who want to fight this virus go about their lives as normal

Let those who want to isolate do so too

We cannot ask that the large majority have their lives destroyed to protect the very small numbers who will die from this

Surely even those at risk cannot be so selfish as to demand that 99% of Irish people accept economic depression the likes not seen since the Great Depression

Time to open up

What exactly do you imagine life would be like if all restrictions were removed tomorrow?
The vast majority would continue staying at home and working from home for their own safety. Everything in the hospitality, travel or non-essential retail would open and then shut again a week later, probably permanently this time since they'll have hardly any business and will be unable to pay their staff without government assistance.

The economy is in hibernation at the moment to protect businesses and jobs from the harsh winter outside, opening up now is essentially throwing those businesses to the wolves.

I'd love to know if there's more to this but these suggestions seem like advocating sacrificing both the economy and our people for the 1% who are feeling sad because they can't go to the beach or the pub.

yosemitesam1

SAXA wrote: »

Incorrect.. When we get the R0 under 1 the virus starts to die out as a spreader Weeks or months after our infection levels drop and then our death level hopefully stops . After that lets see.. . China will be the case study for total immunity

That's entirely theoretical at this stage. There's no evidence that this strain won't reactivate and be shed from the recovered population, which is very common in other coronavirus strains.

suicide_circus

pjohnson wrote: »

Yeah majority of Irish people find life more important than money. As much as it annoys the greedy. Economy is simply not the priority.

Though laudable, I wonder how that opinion varies between people who can work from home and those who's jobs and businesses have disappeared....

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Downlinz wrote: »

What exactly do you imagine life would be like if all restrictions were removed tomorrow?
The vast majority would continue staying at home and working from home for their own safety. Everything in the hospitality, travel or non-essential retail would open and then shut again a week later, probably permanently this time since they'll have hardly any business and will be unable to pay their staff without government assistance.

The economy is in hibernation at the moment to protect businesses and jobs from the harsh winter outside, opening up now is essentially throwing those businesses to the wolves.

I'd love to know if there's more to this but these suggestions seem like advocating sacrificing both the economy and our people for the 1% who are feeling sad because they can't go to the beach or the pub.

1 - because people still need resources in the harsh winter (especially when you have no idea how long said winter will last). If you starve to death because the winter is so harsh you can't obtain food, you aren't preserving life.

2 - the pubs are not reopening any time soon, plus the 1% can drink in other places than pubs.

[Deleted User]

Downlinz wrote: »

What exactly do you imagine life would be like if all restrictions were removed tomorrow?
The vast majority would continue staying at home and working from home for their own safety. Everything in the hospitality, travel or non-essential retail would open and then shut again a week later, probably permanently this time since they'll have hardly any business and will be unable to pay their staff without government assistance.

The economy is in hibernation at the moment to protect businesses and jobs from the harsh winter outside, opening up now is essentially throwing those businesses to the wolves.
.

I think the economy is dying at the moment..............

niallo27

For the 8th million time, it's not about going to the pub or the ****en beach its about being able to pay some bills in 3 months time.

thomas 123

lord quackinton wrote: »

The “war will be won” when we decide to let those who want to fight this virus go about their lives as normal

Let those who want to isolate do so too

We cannot ask that the large majority have their lives destroyed to protect the very small numbers who will die from this

Surely even those at risk cannot be so selfish as to demand that 99% of Irish people accept economic depression the likes not seen since the Great Depression

Time to open up

Deaths not the real problem yet(rip to all those who have sadly passed)

1 in 5 edging towards 1 in 4 people who contract covid require hospitalizations.

Now our health service cannot deal with day to day things like minor surgery, simple a & e, or looking after our elderly on wards etc, if we open up watch that death rate climb and climb

Also on a personal note have some respect, the people who need to self isolate built this country and changed your backside.

KiKi III

suicide_circus wrote: »

Though laudable, I wonder how that opinion varies between people who can work from home and those who's jobs and businesses have disappeared....

In my own social circle, the people who have been hardest hit are the ones who support the measures most. They want an end to the crisis once and for all and would rather take the pain now than do half measures and end up going into lockdown again later in the summer.

KiKi III

niallo27 wrote: »

For the 8th million time, it's not about going to the pub or the ****en beach its about being able to pay some bills in 3 months time.

That may be the case for you niallo, but there are plenty of others on the thread who have been clear that getting back to the pub, the beach, or the park is a priority.

Downlinz

Deleted User wrote: »

I think the economy is dying at the moment..............

It's being preserved as best we can. What would kill the economy is removing government supports and letting a cautious and frightened market decide.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

1 - because people still need resources in the harsh winter (especially when you have no idea how long said winter will last). If you starve to death because the winter is so harsh you can't obtain food, you aren't preserving life.

2 - the pubs are not reopening any time soon, plus the 1% can drink in other places than pubs.

People already have access to essential resources, we have all we need to see out the winter.

niallo27 wrote: »

For the 8th million time, it's not about going to the pub or the ****en beach its about being able to pay some bills in 3 months time.

How does allowing a deadly virus to ravage workforces help with that? If you're working in a sector deemed non-essential why would you think there's high demand for your product or service in the middle of a pandemic?
Fair enough if that's the case but there are plenty of people here who argue the sole reason to open up for "living" presuming leisure activities.

Nermal

Downlinz wrote: »

The vast majority would continue staying at home and working from home for their own safety.

You're wrong. If that was the case, we wouldn't need a lockdown, would we?

IMF projecting GDP loss of 6.8%. €24B.
https://www.imf.org/~/media/Files/Publications/WEO/2020/April/English/StatsAppendixA.ashx?la=en

We value healthcare interventions at €45,000 per year of life saved.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26497002

Being generous, let's say we're saving people who have 10 years left to live.

Did we save almost 54,000 people?

This was too expensive.

[Deleted User]

Downlinz wrote: »

What exactly do you imagine life would be like if all restrictions were removed tomorrow?
The vast majority would continue staying at home and working from home for their own safety. Everything in the hospitality, travel or non-essential retail would open and then shut again a week later, probably permanently this time since they'll have hardly any business and will be unable to pay their staff without government assistance.

The economy is in hibernation at the moment to protect businesses and jobs from the harsh winter outside, opening up now is essentially throwing those businesses to the wolves.

I'd love to know if there's more to this but these suggestions seem like advocating sacrificing both the economy and our people for the 1% who are feeling sad because they can't go to the beach or the pub.

Nice strawman.

No one is expecting restrictions to disappear tomorrow or even this year. But what will happen is a gradual relaxation of measures, as now being discussed by every government and advocated by the WHO.

I’ll certainly be out availing of any relaxation and supporting local retail, cafes and coffee shops

niallo27

KiKi III wrote: »

That may be the case for you niallo, but there are plenty of others on the thread who have been clear that getting back to the pub, the beach, or the park is a priority.

I have been on this thread as much as you, but I think people thinking that way are very very much in the minority.

KiKi III

Nermal wrote: »

You're wrong. If that was the case, we wouldn't need a lockdown, would we?

IMF projecting GDP loss of 6.8%. €24B.
https://www.imf.org/~/media/Files/Publications/WEO/2020/April/English/StatsAppendixA.ashx?la=en

We value healthcare interventions at €45,000 per year of life saved.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26497002

Being generous, let's say we're saving people who have 10 years left to live.

Did we save almost 54,000 people?

This was too expensive.

You’re doing an economic calculation without knowing:

- the cost of the lockdown
- the impact on the economy without the lockdown
- the number of lives saved
- how many lives would have been lost otherwise

Far too many unknowns at this point to be able to say this was too expensive.

niallo27

Downlinz wrote: »

It's being preserved as best we can. What would kill the economy is removing government supports and letting a cautious and frightened market decide.

People already have access to essential resources, we have all we need to see out the winter.

How does allowing a deadly virus to ravage workforces help with that? If you're working in a sector deemed non-essential why would you think there's high demand for your product or service in the middle of a pandemic?
Fair enough if that's the case but there are plenty of people here who argue the sole reason to open up for "living" presuming leisure activities.

Construction has been shut down, I think the longer this is shut the more projects that will be binned.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Downlinz wrote: »

People already have access to essential resources, we have all we need to see out the winter.

Eh no... we don't. And even if we did, they won't forever. The winter is not going to be over in a month or six months or a year or when the virus is gone.

That's just when the winter starts.

is_that_so

JoeA3 wrote: »

Wrong. My local hardware place is open today. Queues out the door. Everyone's an amateur painter this week!

Just because you see one shop open doesn't mean it's everywhere. CMO has commented on this and they are not on the list of essential services.

Downlinz

Nermal wrote: »

You're wrong. If that was the case, we wouldn't need a lockdown, would we?

The vast majority were staying at home but we had incidents like Cheltenham and "Sweet Caroline" in Temple Bar rendering the efforts mostly useless. Businesses all around the country such as cafes and restaurants were shutting unprompted because they had no customers.

The lockdown was needed to restrict a small, troublesome section of society who weren't going to adjust their behaviour even slightly without the threat of criminal action. Those people would run amok again if things opened up but they're not in large enough numbers to support the economy as we saw in the weeks before the lockdown.

Professor Moriarty

Nermal wrote: »

You're wrong. If that was the case, we wouldn't need a lockdown, would we?

IMF projecting GDP loss of 6.8%. €24B.
https://www.imf.org/~/media/Files/Publications/WEO/2020/April/English/StatsAppendixA.ashx?la=en

We value healthcare interventions at €45,000 per year of life saved.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26497002

Being generous, let's say we're saving people who have 10 years left to live.

Did we save almost 54,000 people?

This was too expensive.

Sorry Nana, but you have probably only ten years to live so you're too expensive to keep alive. Been nice knowing you and thanks for the memories. Bye.

the kelt

Downlinz wrote: »

The vast majority were staying at home but we had incidents like Cheltenham and "Sweet Caroline" in Temple Bar rendering the efforts mostly useless. Businesses all around the country such as cafes and restaurants were shutting unprompted because they had no customers.

The lockdown was needed to restrict a small, troublesome section of society who weren't going to adjust their behaviour even slightly without the threat of criminal action. Those people would run amok again if things opened up but they're not in large enough numbers to support the economy as we saw in the weeks before the lockdown.

That’s not the case though, we didn’t just lockdown because a few pubs were packed or because people went to Cheltenham, there seems to a bit of confusion where people think lock down was someone’s fault or some groups fault.

Lockdown was always going to be a necessary part of the approach once the virus was here. It’s been the same in almost every single country, even with full compliance to the original restrictions lockdown was going to happen.

But it helps in society to when you need buy in and compliance to have a scenario where we can blame and shame a section for the current situation we are in, it’s their fault and we don’t want to be like them helps with compliance.

Lockdown was always coming and in fairness in that respect and how it was handled with the stepped approach it was done well her in Ireland imho.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Sorry Nana, but you have probably only ten years to live so you're too expensive to keep alive. Been nice knowing you and thanks for the memories. Bye.

Why isn't Nana being socially distant like the rest of us? And how do you know the mental strain of never seeing her family isn't going to kill her quicker than ten years?

I know at least two people who said they'd rather see their grandkids every few weeks rather then not for another year even if it meant an earlier death.

easypazz

lord quackinton wrote: »

The “war will be won” when we decide to let those who want to fight this virus go about their lives as normal

Let those who want to isolate do so too

We cannot ask that the large majority have their lives destroyed to protect the very small numbers who will die from this

Surely even those at risk cannot be so selfish as to demand that 99% of Irish people accept economic depression the likes not seen since the Great Depression

Time to open up

The whole world will open up during May and June and we will be no different.

Staying closed will kill more people in the long run.

There won't be much left closed by July.

We did our bit for the vulnerable, now they must do their bit for us.

easypazz

pjohnson wrote: »

Yeah majority of Irish people find life more important than money. As much as it annoys the greedy. Economy is simply not the priority.

Bad economy = mass death

Amazing how many people don't get this.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Downlinz wrote: »

The vast majority were staying at home but we had incidents like Cheltenham and "Sweet Caroline" in Temple Bar rendering the efforts mostly useless. Businesses all around the country such as cafes and restaurants were shutting unprompted because they had no customers.

The lockdown was needed to restrict a small, troublesome section of society who weren't going to adjust their behaviour even slightly without the threat of criminal action. Those people would run amok again if things opened up but they're not in large enough numbers to support the economy as we saw in the weeks before the lockdown.

That's like closing the pub permanently because two alcoholics got in a fight a few weeks ago.

Society goes on. In one way or another. And the troubelmakers are isolated and dealt with.

Do you really think there'll be no crime or socially dangerous life-risking behaviour once the virus is delt with and the depression starts? Do you really think no one will turn to crime when unemployment skyrockets and familes beome destitute? Do you really think teenagers with no social outlets and no futrue will happily obey the rules?

And do you really think there won't be any deaths as a result of your ideas?

Professor Moriarty

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Why isn't Nana being socially distant like the rest of us? And how do you know the mental strain of never seeing her family isn't going to kill her quicker than ten years?

I know at least two people who said they'd rather see their grandkids every few weeks rather then not for another year even if it meant an earlier death.

I wouldn't. I'd happily wave at them online every week for another year so that they wouldn't have to suffer my early death.

easypazz

niallo27 wrote: »

For the 8th million time, it's not about going to the pub or the ****en beach its about being able to pay some bills in 3 months time.

100%

If people have no money in August they won't be able to afford heat, or maintenance on their boiler and they will die from the cold.

Or they won't be able to afford their house and end up depressed or homeless and die.

Or people in abusive relationships will be absolutely in bits and die.

Lots and lots of people will die either way.

KrustyUCC

[Deleted User] wrote: »

At that stage the local pubs (if any are left), coffee shops, B&B, AIRBNB all along the Wild Atlantic Way will have stopped posting on Facebook for DUBS to go home and not serving them in their shops and petrol stations. They'll be screaming for them to return and spend their money.

Its tourism that created and sustained the Wild Atlantic Way. Be careful what you wish for.
There was too much hysteria about the Easter exodus which actually didn't happen. Too many curtain twitchers. Its Irish people that will help tourism recover in the short to medium term, many of them will be Dubs. (I'm not a Dub )

I know what you're saying but the opposite is also true that Dublin will need the culchies to visit and spend money when tourists aren't available

Was there a bit of hysteria about Easter exodus?

Maybe there was

However we won't know as new regulations came in

My aunt lives up in Dublin and 3 of her neighbours were all planning on going to their second homes in Wexford, Mayo and Cork respectively

2 out of 3 still attempted a journey and 1 of them made it to Mayo

Back to Dublin Monday night