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Child Item

How will schools be able to go back in September?

shoppergal

Just wondering if anyone can give any insight into how schools could safely re-open in September?

Everyone I'm talking to is saying they won't be back until September but in my head I'm wondering how they'll re-open even in September? The virus will still be there with a vaccine still months away at that stage.

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trapp

Yosef Stocky Backspace wrote: »

Fergal Bowers reporting that Simon Harris has said it looks like we will have social distancing until there is a vaccine.

Schools cannot open as normal in this scenario. Staggered attendance at a minimum would be required.

Exactly.

Schools will not return to normal.

Question is do we consider opening them essential?

If so then educators need to spend time actively exploring safe ways to do this such as staggered attendance as you mentioned.

And be ready to open in January 2021.

No point sitting on their hands until then.

Teachers do great work but together with the department they need to think about how to get up and running again instead of waiting for a normal that won't come.

r93kaey5p2izun

Fergal Bowers reporting that Simon Harris has said it looks like we will have social distancing until there is a vaccine.

Schools cannot open as normal in this scenario. Staggered attendance at a minimum would be required.

trapp

Murple wrote: »

I think you are overestimating the number of learning support teachers in most schools. Also, the larger the school, the greater the risk of infection spreading and to a bigger number. You could easily have 6 or 7 teachers out at one time in a fairly average size school. Getting subs has been a huge challenge in many Dublin schools, the schools most likely to be affected by outbreaks.
If learning support teachers are covering classes then the very children who need additional support won’t get it and children will be in school just for the sake of being there and not for any great educational reason.
Having children attending for a day a week won’t allow them to learn anything much, especially the younger ones. It will be huge risk for little progress.

These are only ideas.

Perhaps redeploy more teachers into deis schools and just open those.

I'm not sure there are alternatives other than schools remaining closed for 2/3 years?

[Deleted User]

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

The reasons for being in lockdown will be exactly the same in a few months as they are right now. If people go out and about, the numbers will rise. And they'll explode unless we go back into lockdown.

It'll be a matter of balancing getting everyone to get it but only at the rate the health service can keep up with.

The governments started by saying it would take a few weeks, and then another few weeks, then another few weeks. But the reality is that it will take months or years

But we won’t stay in lockdown for that long. We simply can’t. Life will have to go on, even if it means survival of the fittest.

Murple

trapp wrote: »

Exactly.

These are the ideas the department need to work on and principals adapt to suit their own school over the next few months.

Then ready to open in January with each child attending once or twice per week.

With social distancing still in place one would hope not many teachers would become sick but perhaps schools should be permitted to hire extra teachers for this year to ensure cover.

This would be especially for small 2/3 teacher schools, larger schools would manage as already plenty of learning support teachers to cover classes.

I think you are overestimating the number of learning support teachers in most schools. Also, the larger the school, the greater the risk of infection spreading and to a bigger number. You could easily have 6 or 7 teachers out at one time in a fairly average size school. Getting subs has been a huge challenge in many Dublin schools, the schools most likely to be affected by outbreaks.
If learning support teachers are covering classes then the very children who need additional support won’t get it and children will be in school just for the sake of being there and not for any great educational reason.
Having children attending for a day a week won’t allow them to learn anything much, especially the younger ones. It will be huge risk for little progress.

trapp

CC2020 wrote: »

On the topic of returning to school, has anyone any thoughts or news on what term dates might be like for 2020/2021 academic year? How likely is it Easter holidays etc will remain the same for 2021?

Forget term dates and holidays and standardised school year.

Schools won't be back until January at the earliest I fear.

CC2020

On the topic of returning to school, has anyone any thoughts or news on what term dates might be like for 2020/2021 academic year? How likely is it Easter holidays etc will remain the same for 2021?

Dublingirl80

trapp wrote: »

Never going to happen.

Why would anyone work or do anything to better themselves?

Why does anyone ever work? This makes no sense. People need to work to pay their bills, if necessary we all need to forego the luxuries for a while.

trapp

Dublingirl80 wrote: »

So might you, health is a priority here, if needs be everyone will need to reduce their standard of living to the very basics, extra tax, reduced incomes, banks should already have reduced the interest rates. We make it work we don't sacrifice people's lives.

Never going to happen.

Why would anyone work or do anything to better themselves?

Xertz

All we can do as a country is follow the best scientific advice we have available on any of these closure or reopening issues and balance that with the social and economic impacts in a proper risk analysis.

At some stage, we do have to start reopening things, but on the other side of it, we also have to remember that while there may not be damage to infrastructure or some kind of military invasion, this is still a major natural disaster we're dealing with and there will be disruption and consequences to that.

The impression I get is while most people are taking it seriously, a % seem to still think this is just like we are going to snap our fingers and it will be business as usual. It won't. This is a going to have to be a phased restoration of normality and you are also looking at a scenario where there will be fairly drastic economic impacts domestically but also internationally over the weeks and months ahead and probably for quite a few years ahead.

We need to get this right, not rushed and there's a risk in both being too quick or too conservative as one will result in a second spike in cases and serious consequences and the other could result in unnecessary economic and social implications.

We will probably all be able to look back at this in a few months saying that things were miscalculated because it's impossible to be 100% right. So, all we're left with is making a call based on the balance of evidence and the facts as we know and understand them at present.

We need, and are clearly already developing, a strategy to get out of this, but the only way we will get back to normality in the medium term is with a technical solution to this, otherwise it will inevitably keep bubbling away in the background.

Dublingirl80

suicide_circus wrote: »

the old and vulnerable will suffer and die if there is no economy to sustain them

So might you, health is a priority here, if needs be everyone will need to reduce their standard of living to the very basics, extra tax, reduced incomes, banks should already have reduced the interest rates. We make it work we don't sacrifice people's lives.

suicide_circus

the old and vulnerable will suffer and die if there is no economy to sustain them

BanditLuke

Dublingirl80 wrote: »

What a horrible way to speak about older people, their lives are just as valuable as anybody else and nobody knows how long they have left. These kinds of comments make me question how some people think.

Unfortunately it's a common theme on here. Sickening tbh.

Dublingirl80

The chan chan man wrote: »

On one hand, they can’t open in sept if there is no mass produced vaccine, which there wont be. To open the schools then would mean all of this has been pointless.

On the other hand, my view is we cant keep this up long term without this resulting in civil unrest/mental health issues/widespread unemployment etc. i know 4 people now who have had it (all under 60) and it hasnt even been that bad for them! The people dying had no more than 5-7 years left anyway at best! I know others over 80 who couldnt care less - they know something’s gonna get them sooner or later!

As such, i would question if we should just move on with life and whatever happens happens... I’m not even sure if I agree with myself...but its a question the world needs to ask itself at some stage. And even if we do, again, this has all been in vain.

What a horrible way to speak about older people, their lives are just as valuable as anybody else and nobody knows how long they have left. These kinds of comments make me question how some people think.

Idbatterim

you would wonder if they could use churches and sports halls etc, for education, to keep as many people apart as possible...

s1ippy

trapp wrote: »

There is no evidence that young people who get coronavirus and recover suffer long term complications and dramatically reduced life expectancy.

It is complete nonsense.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/06/150608081753.htm
Over 95% of the world's population have health issues and 30% have more than five health issues.

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/amp/health-52003804
According to this article, 5% of people under 50 who got the virus were hospitalised.
https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-percentage-of-the-world-population-is-over-50
There are about 5bn people under 50 alive in the world. If 5% of them got seriously ill then that's 250m people.

Is that fine so, 250m people with dramatically reduced health and life expectancy? What happens if longitudinal studies then discover that it ravages the immune system time and time again? It's already been proved that many healthy people have gotten sick from it more than once because their bodies haven't retained the antibodies which immunise us against other illnesses. Lungs and surrounding muscles become weaker over time due to fighting coronavirus.

I can't understand why you are in such ignorant denial, to the extent that you'll overlook crucial facts so that you can push an economy-focused agenda.

trapp

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

The reasons for being in lockdown will be exactly the same in a few months as they are right now. If people go out and about, the numbers will rise. And they'll explode unless we go back into lockdown.

It'll be a matter of balancing getting everyone to get it but only at the rate the health service can keep up with.

The governments started by saying it would take a few weeks, and then another few weeks, then another few weeks. But the reality is that it will take months or years

I suppose the lockdown should give hospitals more time to prepare, increase capacity and so on.

Also give the rest of society time to consider how to move forward without going back to normal as before and through this avoid a huge rise in cases.

In terms of this thread schools will have to consider new ways of working.

trapp

jrosen wrote: »

I would consider schools to be essential.

Just thinking out loud here. If college doesnt start this year then where do the LC students go and what do they do? That then impacts next years LC and college starts.

If we have kids missing potentially a year of school (if they dont go back to Jan 2021) where is this work made up? The abilities of students vary so much in normal times, ,but all that time out of school will have huge implications to the classroom and the teachers. This will just domino into the next school year.

That aside I dont believe the virus is going anywhere so the question is how do we as a society move forward whist keeping the economy going and life moving on.

I would consider them essential too, especially for children in so called disadvantaged areas attenting deis schools.

Not essential short term but yes in the long term.

Fully agree too that the virus isn't going anywhere. Waiting for normal to return when it might not happen isn't a solution.

In education, educators need to find solutions.

And online learning only is not a solution long term.

El_Duderino 09

[Deleted User] wrote: »

We can’t hide from a disease forever. Eventually will need to move forward again. Sooner than later.

Silly to think we’ll be staying in lockdown for years or even months.

The reasons for being in lockdown will be exactly the same in a few months as they are right now. If people go out and about, the numbers will rise. And they'll explode unless we go back into lockdown.

It'll be a matter of balancing getting everyone to get it but only at the rate the health service can keep up with.

The governments started by saying it would take a few weeks, and then another few weeks, then another few weeks. But the reality is that it will take months or years

trapp

s1ippy wrote: »

Fuçking why like?

There is no evidence that young people who get coronavirus and recover suffer long term complications and dramatically reduced life expectancy.

It is complete nonsense.

jrosen

I would consider schools to be essential.

Just thinking out loud here. If college doesnt start this year then where do the LC students go and what do they do? That then impacts next years LC and college starts.

If we have kids missing potentially a year of school (if they dont go back to Jan 2021) where is this work made up? The abilities of students vary so much in normal times, ,but all that time out of school will have huge implications to the classroom and the teachers. This will just domino into the next school year.

That aside I dont believe the virus is going anywhere so the question is how do we as a society move forward whist keeping the economy going and life moving on.

s1ippy

trapp wrote: »

This is nonsense.

Fuçking why like?

trapp

Xertz wrote: »

They also need extremely serious support from public health officials from the HSE.

Principals should not be left on their own to make calls on complex health matters and I do not mean that as any slight on principals or teachers, but this is a technical matter and needs to be very strong support from technical agencies.

The question is do we consider opening schools in some form as essential?

I would say that in the short term the answer is certainly no but moving into next year it becomes a more interesting question.

If we do then it can't just be a flippant reopening. Like you said preparations will have to be made and hopefully a January reopening is possible.

Particularly for our most vulnerable and disadvantaged children.

[Deleted User]

TCM wrote: »

What does that actually mean?

We can’t hide from a disease forever. Eventually will need to move forward again. Sooner than later.

Silly to think we’ll be staying in lockdown for years or even months.

Xertz

They also need extremely serious support from public health officials from the HSE.

Principals should not be left on their own to make calls on complex health matters and I do not mean that as any slight on principals or teachers, but this is a technical matter and needs to be very strong support from technical agencies.

A lot of Irish schools are small and we don’t have organised school district or local council type infrastructure to help advise, so you’ll have a lot of people on their own trying to make decisions about public health.

The Government needs to ensure they’re supported by public health officials and maybe even local GPs might be useful in that regard to interpret stuff.

trapp

Lackey wrote: »

I would love for you to save this and set it to pop up in your memories when you are the parent of two secondary school children
See if you still flippantly say ‘they’ll just have to live with it’

I’ve posted this already :
It’s their last year at school with their mates Grad night, pre debs, LC, Debs, LC holiday, earning their own money, College/apprenticeships etc..
if you can't remember being young (or are pretending not to)at least try have a bit of empathy.
You cant put an old head on young shoulders, and you shouldn't want to.

I think
The country will start to reopen in May
Schools will be back in Sept

This will be extremely tough for leaving certs and even going to college won't be the same this year.

The country will start to reopen in May or June but I fear it will be January before schools, colleges etc reopen and even then it will be in limited form

trapp

Xertz wrote: »

Well you could take sensible measures like one day on / one day off in primary schools to facilitate social distancing measures. Or even one week on / one week off with different sets of students.

It’s not ideal but it’s doable for a few months.

Secondary schools could definitely work with blended learning - mixture of online / project work and in class time to support that, but not everyone in at the same time. You would need maybe 1/2 or 1/3 of the students in at any given time.

Universities should be already well able to do this. Most of them already have extremely good blended learning type systems in place anyway. Obviously there are some aspects like labs and so on that will need to be attended but you can come up with creative ways of keeping numbers down, just until we get at least the repurposed drugs that make it less deadly.

We are going to just have to be creative over the next few months until we can get this managed safely.

Exactly.

These are the ideas the department need to work on and principals adapt to suit their own school over the next few months.

Then ready to open in January with each child attending once or twice per week.

With social distancing still in place one would hope not many teachers would become sick but perhaps schools should be permitted to hire extra teachers for this year to ensure cover.

This would be especially for small 2/3 teacher schools, larger schools would manage as already plenty of learning support teachers to cover classes.

Lackey

brookers wrote: »

I am a parent with two primary school going children Personally I believe that the Leaving Cert wont go ahead and parents and students will just have to live with that.

I would love for you to save this and set it to pop up in your memories when you are the parent of two secondary school children
See if you still flippantly say ‘they’ll just have to live with it’

I’ve posted this already :
It’s their last year at school with their mates Grad night, pre debs, LC, Debs, LC holiday, earning their own money, College/apprenticeships etc..
if you can't remember being young (or are pretending not to)at least try have a bit of empathy.
You cant put an old head on young shoulders, and you shouldn't want to.

I think
The country will start to reopen in May
Schools will be back in Sept

Xertz

Well you could take sensible measures like one day on / one day off in primary schools to facilitate social distancing measures. Or even one week on / one week off with different sets of students.

It’s not ideal but it’s doable for a few months.

Secondary schools could definitely work with blended learning - mixture of online / project work and in class time to support that, but not everyone in at the same time. You would need maybe 1/2 or 1/3 of the students in at any given time.

Universities should be already well able to do this. Most of them already have extremely good blended learning type systems in place anyway. Obviously there are some aspects like labs and so on that will need to be attended but you can come up with creative ways of keeping numbers down, just until we get at least the repurposed drugs that make it less deadly.

We are going to just have to be creative over the next few months until we can get this managed safely.

jrosen

khalessi wrote: »

Have you contacted the school?

Yes, as have other parents.