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Relaxation of restrictions

Red Alert

Simon Harris curiously made a comment that there was a limit to how long people could put up with extreme level of restrictions as we currently have. Already we’re seeing in Italy that people are starting to get restless. So two big questions:

1) on Easter Sunday, do you think there will be further restrictions, no change with just an extension or some relaxation?

2) what will be the first thing rolled back?

My own guess would be: extension for at least 1 week. Then to allow some businesses like DIY shops to reopen, perhaps allow gatherings of 2/3 people, maybe a token increase on 2km.

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brick tamland

tom1ie wrote: »

So China have reported 108 new cases overnight.
That’s with the strictest lockdown on the planet.
C19 is not going away anytime soon.

China are far from strictest lockdown in world ffs

Open for business way more than we are for a start

niallo27

tom1ie wrote: »

So China have reported 108 new cases overnight.
That’s with the strictest lockdown on the planet.
C19 is not going away anytime soon.

Exactly so the sooner we get on with it the better for everyone.

GazzaL

They're relaxing restrictions all over Europe. I can't see Irish people buying into a full lockdown for the next 3 weeks.

paw patrol

BanditLuke wrote: »

It's to avoid a surge. You mightn't care about saving as many as we can but thankfully many do including our government. Stay at home.

I don't agree.
We could stop road deaths by banning all cars. But we know that's not practical.
That is what we are doing now.

To save all these lives we are imposing a lot of hardship on everybody which will go on for ages, long after this illness has passed such as unemployment , debt repayment, medical operations being postposed indefinitely , marriage breakdown, substance abuse issues being compounded, you can insert you own social ill in that list

People have discussed the suicide epidemic after the crash in 2008 - will we see a repeat of that here? I don't know but it seems a reasonable point.

I don't know why you think I mightn't care. I do . That is why I posted.

I'm not blind to that fact people will die either way.
Just that the cost of the current situation is too much on a lot more people.
There is a more balanced approach - as I stated in my original post.

staying at home on lockdown isn't the answer.

carolmon

I have a question about the restrictions.

I live alone so since the announcement of the more severe restrictions I have been basically in solitary confinement.

Before the second announcements restrictions I would meet a friend for a walk in the park ...we would drive down separately and walk 2 metres apart but it was still nice to see somebody face to face.

Since the second announcement I haven't done this I've just gone out for a cycle alone.

Now I see on the RTE News people calling over to relatives standing in their garden chatting to celebrate birthdays/anniversaries.

it's becoming increasingly unclear to me what is allowed...
can I call you a friend's garden for a chat?

If so I don't understand why I've been instructed to exercise alone?

I really miss seeing people and just having some human interaction in my day.

VonLuck

carolmon wrote: »

I have a question about the restrictions.

I live alone so since the announcement of the more severe restrictions I have been basically in solitary confinement.

Before the second announcements restrictions I would meet a friend for a walk in the park ...we would drive down separately and walk 2 metres apart but it was still nice to see somebody face to face.

Since the second announcement I haven't done this I've just gone out for a cycle alone.

Now I see on the RTE News people calling over to relatives standing in their garden chatting to celebrate birthdays/anniversaries.

it's becoming increasingly unclear to me what is allowed...
can I call you a friend's garden for a chat?

If so I don't understand why I've been instructed to exercise alone?

I really miss seeing people and just having some human interaction in my day.

If you both live within 2km of each other I wouldn't see a problem if you happened to bump into each other during a spot of exercise, as long as you maintain the 2m distancing.

ZX7R

So today Spain has started to relax some of their restrictions,
Starting with construction and manufacturing being aloud to return to work and some other business

FloatingVoter

carolmon wrote: »

I have a question about the restrictions.

I live alone so since the announcement of the more severe restrictions I have been basically in solitary confinement.

Before the second announcements restrictions I would meet a friend for a walk in the park ...we would drive down separately and walk 2 metres apart but it was still nice to see somebody face to face.

Since the second announcement I haven't done this I've just gone out for a cycle alone.

Now I see on the RTE News people calling over to relatives standing in their garden chatting to celebrate birthdays/anniversaries.

it's becoming increasingly unclear to me what is allowed...
can I call you a friend's garden for a chat?

If so I don't understand why I've been instructed to exercise alone?

I really miss seeing people and just having some human interaction in my day.

Call your friend and meet them. Keep the 2m distance. All perfectly normal and legal. It's having a party of 20 randomers around that's an issue.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

tom1ie wrote: »

So China have reported 108 new cases overnight.
That’s with the strictest lockdown on the planet.
C19 is not going away anytime soon.

China's not on lockdown. Wuhan was, but has had most of the restrictions lifted by this stage. Norhtern Italy has the strictest on the planet now (I think).

_Kaiser_

paw patrol wrote: »

I don't agree.
We could stop road death by banning all cars. But we know that's not practical.
That is what we are doing now.

To save all these lives we are imposing a lot of hardship on everybody which will go on for ages long after this illness has passed such as unemployment , debt repayment, operations being postposed indefinitely , marriage breakdown, substance abuse issues being compounded, you can insert you own social ill in that list

People have discussed the suicide epidemic after the crash in 2008 - will we see a repeat of that here? I don't know but it seems a reasonable point.

I don't know why you think I mightn't care. I do . That is why I posted.

I'm not blind to that fact people will die either way.
Just that the cost of the current situation is too much on a lot more people.
There is a more balanced approach - as I stated in my original post.

staying at home on lockdown isn't the answer.

To take your car analogy a bit further, the STAY AT HOME mantra is akin to the SPEED KILLS one so beloved of the RSA and those who think a few km over the limit makes you some sort of maniac.

It's a soundbite that doesn't take into account the myriad of other factors involved in accidents and deaths on the road. It's a case of marketing > details.

Similarly, it's just not possible to keep the majority of people locked away indefinitely while we collectively try and wait this out.

Right now, as you rightly said, there are several hundred thousand people at home who've lost their jobs or are expecting to lose them. The utility bills, health insurance, car tax, food shopping etc still have to be paid and these people are no doubt feeling powerless to do anything about it.
The stress and pressure must be enormous - yet for many, I'm sure they could go back to work in the morning with minimal risk with some precautions on their and their employers part.

Keeping these people locked in is just as damaging to them as it is to the economy.

But again we have the STAY AT HOME fanatics - and I use that word because some of the hysteria and hyperbole being used to justify it is indeed fanatical level. But this is the Twitter effect I suppose.. Simplified messages with simple likes or dislikes. No room for reasoned debate. You're with us, or you're against us.

The reality is indeed that this virus will probably not be cured or vaccinated against for months or even years. But we cannot put people's mental, physical and yes financial well-being at even greater risk by imposing blunt lockdowns indefinitely or without an exit strategy.

We will simply have to let those who can get on with things, do so - and soon - if we are to prevent a complete collapse of economies and social stability. Those who are at greater risk should continue to be supported and no one will have an issue with online shopping being prioritised for them, or special opening times to allow them do what they need to, and I'm sure communities will continue to rally around them as they have in the last few weeks.

But the term that will become the new order is risk acceptance. Recognising that in order to serve the greater needs, some dangers will exist, and then taking steps to minimise (not necessarily eliminate) those dangers to where an acceptable balance is reached.

There simply is no other way forward.

Cork Boy 53

ZX7R wrote: »

So today Spain has started to relax some of their restrictions,
Starting with construction and manufacturing being aloud to return to work and some other business

And on the very same day Spanish authorities have announced almost 3500 new virus cases. This relaxation may not last for too long if the death toll and ICU cases spike again.

OMM 0000

Stateofyou wrote: »

Folks - why wouldn't a more extreme lockdown for EVERYONE for just another 3 weeks work really well? Where we take a hard enough hit and stay indoors/personal yard, expand grocery deliveries and Gardaí for enforcement and see where that takes us. How are other countries who are managing well approaching this?

In East Asia there's no sort of lockdown due to masks preventing transmission.

So Ireland needs to get masks (e.g. repurpose some factories to produce them), make sure everyone is given them, and then everyone can go back to work and relatively normal life.

Blueshoe

OMM 0000 wrote: »

In East Asia there's no sort of lockdown due to masks preventing transmission.

So Ireland needs to get masks (e.g. repurpose some factories to produce them), make sure everyone is given them, and then everyone can go back to work and relatively normal life.

People only want to see certain sectors opened first. Iv heard construction as one. It's sort of an experiment to see what happens to these workers while others can continue to work from home in their PJ's.

The government and hse advisors will make the call as to who goes back first and when. There always has to be cannon fodder.

Cork Boy 53

OMM 0000 wrote: »

In East Asia there's no sort of lockdown due to masks preventing transmission.

So Ireland needs to get masks (e.g. repurpose some factories to produce them), make sure everyone is given them, and then everyone can go back to work and relatively normal life.

As far as I am aware only one European country (Austria I think) has made mask wearing compulsory so it remains to be seen if there will be a reduction in cases due to this. If not worn and used properly masks can actually increase the risk of transmission rather than reduce it.

Sheep Shagger

Agreed it needs to a phased basis but can only happen when the testing backlog has cleared so that anyone with symptoms can be tested, get results back and isolate in a quick time frame.

Can see offices, pubs/restaurants and large gatherings like sports events and concerts being the last to go back.

No reason why shops etc couldn't with enforced numbers in at a time in place. Likewise for trades including construction.

Stateofyou

FloatingVoter wrote: »

Call your friend and meet them. Keep the 2m distance. All perfectly normal and legal. It's having a party of 20 randomers around that's an issue.

That's not the rule. Pulled from Gov.ie

The only reasons you can leave your home
Stay at home in all circumstances, except in the following situations:

to travel to and from work where the work is considered an essential service. The full list of essential services is available here
working in an essential shop, bank or post office. The full list of essential shops, post offices and banks is available here
to buy food, medicines and other health products for yourself, your family or someone who is vulnerable or 'cocooning'
to attend medical appointments
for vital family reasons including caring for children, elderly or vulnerable people but excluding social family visits
to exercise within 2 kilometres of your house. You cannot exercise with people from outside your household

OMM 0000

Blueshoe wrote: »

People only want to see certain sectors opened first. Iv heard construction as one. It's sort of an experiment to see what happens to these workers while others can continue to work from home in their PJ's.

The government and hse advisors will make the call as to who goes back first and when. There always has to be cannon fodder.

We already know from Asia that all sectors can open where wearing masks is possible.

So, in Hong Kong for example, pubs have been closed as no one wears masks there, so there is risk of transmission, and many restaurants have changed to takeaway only.

But everything else - office work, shops, public transport, etc. - is business as usual, and there's almost no local transmission of the virus.

Ireland need to start making masks. Waiting for China to make the masks for them is a stupid strategy.

OMM 0000

Cork Boy 53 wrote: »

If not worn and used properly masks can actually increase the risk of transmission rather than reduce it.

Hasn't that been proven be a myth?

The US Surgeon General was just saying that to scare people into not wearing masks, so the hospitals will have enough supplies.

Also, putting on a surgical mask is utterly simple. Only a child or a person with a physical disability may struggle with it.

Diarmuid

Sheep Shagger wrote: »

Agreed it needs to a phased basis but can only happen when the testing backlog has cleared so that anyone with symptoms can be tested, get results back and isolate in a quick time frame.

That's not even necessary. If you have the symptoms, isolate for 14 days. The test doesn't really add a whole lot.

Cork Boy 53

Sheep Shagger wrote: »

Agreed it needs to a phased basis but can only happen when the testing backlog has cleared so that anyone with symptoms can be tested, get results back and isolate in a quick time frame.

Can see offices, pubs/restaurants and large gatherings like sports events and concerts being the last to go back.

No reason why shops etc couldn't with enforced numbers in at a time in place. Likewise for trades including construction.

Concerts, festivals etc. will probably not resume at all this year. Some sporting events might go ahead in a few months time but only behind closed doors.

carolmon

Stateofyou wrote: »

That's not the rule. Pulled from Gov.ie

The only reasons you can leave your home
Stay at home in all circumstances, except in the following situations:

to travel to and from work where the work is considered an essential service. The full list of essential services is available here
working in an essential shop, bank or post office. The full list of essential shops, post offices and banks is available here
to buy food, medicines and other health products for yourself, your family or someone who is vulnerable or 'cocooning'
to attend medical appointments
for vital family reasons including caring for children, elderly or vulnerable people but excluding social family visits
to exercise within 2 kilometres of your house. You cannot exercise with people from outside your household

That was my understanding then why is RTE News showing people celebrating special occasions in front gardens?

thebaz

Intersting piece by CNN, suggesting death rate will probably be a lot lower, than expected or forecast, in fact similar to bad flu - the key as they say is testing - Random testing as in Iceland and when we get the antibody testing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_LG-so-8qwg

iamwhoiam

Cork Boy 53 wrote: »

As far as I am aware only one European country (Austria I think) has made mask wearing compulsory so it remains to be seen if there will be a reduction in cases due to this. If not worn and used properly masks can actually increase the risk of transmission rather than reduce it.

Which is exactly why the HSE need to make videos and leaflets on HOW to use masks . It could be repeated with the hand washing videos and shown on all media

carolmon

FloatingVoter wrote: »

Call your friend and meet them. Keep the 2m distance. All perfectly normal and legal. It's having a party of 20 randomers around that's an issue.

I'd love to do that it would make it so much more bearable but I don't want to break the restrictions either ...especially if somebody got sick and we had to do contact tracing

Stateofyou

carolmon wrote: »

That was my understanding then why is RTE News showing people celebrating special occasions in front gardens?

I'm not sure what your specifically referring to, but it sounds like the "people celebrating" could be people actually living together? RTE have journalists going out to report feel good news stories, but they're not actually joining the party as a celebrant. That's how it looks to me without knowing what you're specifically referencing. Do you have a link?

VonLuck

I was just reading an Irish Times article where they said that smaller construction sites may also re-open although offices would remain closed for “many months more”, with working from home to remain in place “for the foreseeable future”.

Slightly surprised that the government is already saying this before the end of this additional 3 week period.

iamwhoiam

Stateofyou wrote: »

I'm not sure what your specifically referring to, but it sounds like the "people celebrating" could be people actually living together? RTE have journalists going out to report feel good news stories, but they're not actually joining the party as a celebrant. That's how it looks to me without knowing what you're specifically referencing. Do you have a link?

There was a clip on the news of a family arriving to the parents house to celebrate their 65th Wedding Anniversary . They rang the bell then all stepped back over 2 metres to clap and chat .

carolmon

Stateofyou wrote: »

I'm not sure what your specifically referring to, but it sounds like the "people celebrating" could be people actually living together? RTE have journalists going out to report feel good news stories, but they're not actually joining the party as a celebrant. That's how it looks to me without knowing what you're specifically referencing. Do you have a link?

This story was on RTE news last night

https://www.dublinlive.ie/news/dublin-news/dublin-couple-celebrate-65th-wedding-18082483

JoeA3

Stateofyou wrote: »

I'm not sure what your specifically referring to, but it sounds like the "people celebrating" could be people actually living together? RTE have journalists going out to report feel good news stories, but they're not actually joining the party as a celebrant. That's how it looks to me without knowing what you're specifically referencing. Do you have a link?

It was on the news lastnight. Elderly couple in their 90’s, their 65th wedding anniversary and all their children / grandchildren were gathered outside their house. Maybe the entire extended family live within 2k... maybe not!

The curtain twitchers on here aren’t happy but good luck to them I say!

Cork Boy 53

OMM 0000 wrote: »

Hasn't that been proven be a myth?

The US Surgeon General was just saying that to scare people into not wearing masks, so the hospitals will have enough supplies.

Also, putting on a surgical mask is utterly simple. Only a child or a person with a physical disability may struggle with it.

Have a read of the HSE consultant`s comments on the use of face masks at the beginning of this thread.

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=112856017#