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Relaxation of restrictions

Red Alert

Simon Harris curiously made a comment that there was a limit to how long people could put up with extreme level of restrictions as we currently have. Already we’re seeing in Italy that people are starting to get restless. So two big questions:

1) on Easter Sunday, do you think there will be further restrictions, no change with just an extension or some relaxation?

2) what will be the first thing rolled back?

My own guess would be: extension for at least 1 week. Then to allow some businesses like DIY shops to reopen, perhaps allow gatherings of 2/3 people, maybe a token increase on 2km.

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Sheep Shagger

Agreed it needs to a phased basis but can only happen when the testing backlog has cleared so that anyone with symptoms can be tested, get results back and isolate in a quick time frame.

Can see offices, pubs/restaurants and large gatherings like sports events and concerts being the last to go back.

No reason why shops etc couldn't with enforced numbers in at a time in place. Likewise for trades including construction.

Cork Boy 53

OMM 0000 wrote: »

In East Asia there's no sort of lockdown due to masks preventing transmission.

So Ireland needs to get masks (e.g. repurpose some factories to produce them), make sure everyone is given them, and then everyone can go back to work and relatively normal life.

As far as I am aware only one European country (Austria I think) has made mask wearing compulsory so it remains to be seen if there will be a reduction in cases due to this. If not worn and used properly masks can actually increase the risk of transmission rather than reduce it.

Blueshoe

OMM 0000 wrote: »

In East Asia there's no sort of lockdown due to masks preventing transmission.

So Ireland needs to get masks (e.g. repurpose some factories to produce them), make sure everyone is given them, and then everyone can go back to work and relatively normal life.

People only want to see certain sectors opened first. Iv heard construction as one. It's sort of an experiment to see what happens to these workers while others can continue to work from home in their PJ's.

The government and hse advisors will make the call as to who goes back first and when. There always has to be cannon fodder.

OMM 0000

Stateofyou wrote: »

Folks - why wouldn't a more extreme lockdown for EVERYONE for just another 3 weeks work really well? Where we take a hard enough hit and stay indoors/personal yard, expand grocery deliveries and Gardaí for enforcement and see where that takes us. How are other countries who are managing well approaching this?

In East Asia there's no sort of lockdown due to masks preventing transmission.

So Ireland needs to get masks (e.g. repurpose some factories to produce them), make sure everyone is given them, and then everyone can go back to work and relatively normal life.

Cork Boy 53

ZX7R wrote: »

So today Spain has started to relax some of their restrictions,
Starting with construction and manufacturing being aloud to return to work and some other business

And on the very same day Spanish authorities have announced almost 3500 new virus cases. This relaxation may not last for too long if the death toll and ICU cases spike again.

_Kaiser_

paw patrol wrote: »

I don't agree.
We could stop road death by banning all cars. But we know that's not practical.
That is what we are doing now.

To save all these lives we are imposing a lot of hardship on everybody which will go on for ages long after this illness has passed such as unemployment , debt repayment, operations being postposed indefinitely , marriage breakdown, substance abuse issues being compounded, you can insert you own social ill in that list

People have discussed the suicide epidemic after the crash in 2008 - will we see a repeat of that here? I don't know but it seems a reasonable point.

I don't know why you think I mightn't care. I do . That is why I posted.

I'm not blind to that fact people will die either way.
Just that the cost of the current situation is too much on a lot more people.
There is a more balanced approach - as I stated in my original post.

staying at home on lockdown isn't the answer.

To take your car analogy a bit further, the STAY AT HOME mantra is akin to the SPEED KILLS one so beloved of the RSA and those who think a few km over the limit makes you some sort of maniac.

It's a soundbite that doesn't take into account the myriad of other factors involved in accidents and deaths on the road. It's a case of marketing > details.

Similarly, it's just not possible to keep the majority of people locked away indefinitely while we collectively try and wait this out.

Right now, as you rightly said, there are several hundred thousand people at home who've lost their jobs or are expecting to lose them. The utility bills, health insurance, car tax, food shopping etc still have to be paid and these people are no doubt feeling powerless to do anything about it.
The stress and pressure must be enormous - yet for many, I'm sure they could go back to work in the morning with minimal risk with some precautions on their and their employers part.

Keeping these people locked in is just as damaging to them as it is to the economy.

But again we have the STAY AT HOME fanatics - and I use that word because some of the hysteria and hyperbole being used to justify it is indeed fanatical level. But this is the Twitter effect I suppose.. Simplified messages with simple likes or dislikes. No room for reasoned debate. You're with us, or you're against us.

The reality is indeed that this virus will probably not be cured or vaccinated against for months or even years. But we cannot put people's mental, physical and yes financial well-being at even greater risk by imposing blunt lockdowns indefinitely or without an exit strategy.

We will simply have to let those who can get on with things, do so - and soon - if we are to prevent a complete collapse of economies and social stability. Those who are at greater risk should continue to be supported and no one will have an issue with online shopping being prioritised for them, or special opening times to allow them do what they need to, and I'm sure communities will continue to rally around them as they have in the last few weeks.

But the term that will become the new order is risk acceptance. Recognising that in order to serve the greater needs, some dangers will exist, and then taking steps to minimise (not necessarily eliminate) those dangers to where an acceptable balance is reached.

There simply is no other way forward.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

tom1ie wrote: »

So China have reported 108 new cases overnight.
That’s with the strictest lockdown on the planet.
C19 is not going away anytime soon.

China's not on lockdown. Wuhan was, but has had most of the restrictions lifted by this stage. Norhtern Italy has the strictest on the planet now (I think).

FloatingVoter

carolmon wrote: »

I have a question about the restrictions.

I live alone so since the announcement of the more severe restrictions I have been basically in solitary confinement.

Before the second announcements restrictions I would meet a friend for a walk in the park ...we would drive down separately and walk 2 metres apart but it was still nice to see somebody face to face.

Since the second announcement I haven't done this I've just gone out for a cycle alone.

Now I see on the RTE News people calling over to relatives standing in their garden chatting to celebrate birthdays/anniversaries.

it's becoming increasingly unclear to me what is allowed...
can I call you a friend's garden for a chat?

If so I don't understand why I've been instructed to exercise alone?

I really miss seeing people and just having some human interaction in my day.

Call your friend and meet them. Keep the 2m distance. All perfectly normal and legal. It's having a party of 20 randomers around that's an issue.

ZX7R

So today Spain has started to relax some of their restrictions,
Starting with construction and manufacturing being aloud to return to work and some other business

VonLuck

carolmon wrote: »

I have a question about the restrictions.

I live alone so since the announcement of the more severe restrictions I have been basically in solitary confinement.

Before the second announcements restrictions I would meet a friend for a walk in the park ...we would drive down separately and walk 2 metres apart but it was still nice to see somebody face to face.

Since the second announcement I haven't done this I've just gone out for a cycle alone.

Now I see on the RTE News people calling over to relatives standing in their garden chatting to celebrate birthdays/anniversaries.

it's becoming increasingly unclear to me what is allowed...
can I call you a friend's garden for a chat?

If so I don't understand why I've been instructed to exercise alone?

I really miss seeing people and just having some human interaction in my day.

If you both live within 2km of each other I wouldn't see a problem if you happened to bump into each other during a spot of exercise, as long as you maintain the 2m distancing.

carolmon

I have a question about the restrictions.

I live alone so since the announcement of the more severe restrictions I have been basically in solitary confinement.

Before the second announcements restrictions I would meet a friend for a walk in the park ...we would drive down separately and walk 2 metres apart but it was still nice to see somebody face to face.

Since the second announcement I haven't done this I've just gone out for a cycle alone.

Now I see on the RTE News people calling over to relatives standing in their garden chatting to celebrate birthdays/anniversaries.

it's becoming increasingly unclear to me what is allowed...
can I call you a friend's garden for a chat?

If so I don't understand why I've been instructed to exercise alone?

I really miss seeing people and just having some human interaction in my day.

paw patrol

BanditLuke wrote: »

It's to avoid a surge. You mightn't care about saving as many as we can but thankfully many do including our government. Stay at home.

I don't agree.
We could stop road deaths by banning all cars. But we know that's not practical.
That is what we are doing now.

To save all these lives we are imposing a lot of hardship on everybody which will go on for ages, long after this illness has passed such as unemployment , debt repayment, medical operations being postposed indefinitely , marriage breakdown, substance abuse issues being compounded, you can insert you own social ill in that list

People have discussed the suicide epidemic after the crash in 2008 - will we see a repeat of that here? I don't know but it seems a reasonable point.

I don't know why you think I mightn't care. I do . That is why I posted.

I'm not blind to that fact people will die either way.
Just that the cost of the current situation is too much on a lot more people.
There is a more balanced approach - as I stated in my original post.

staying at home on lockdown isn't the answer.

GazzaL

They're relaxing restrictions all over Europe. I can't see Irish people buying into a full lockdown for the next 3 weeks.

niallo27

tom1ie wrote: »

So China have reported 108 new cases overnight.
That’s with the strictest lockdown on the planet.
C19 is not going away anytime soon.

Exactly so the sooner we get on with it the better for everyone.

brick tamland

tom1ie wrote: »

So China have reported 108 new cases overnight.
That’s with the strictest lockdown on the planet.
C19 is not going away anytime soon.

China are far from strictest lockdown in world ffs

Open for business way more than we are for a start

robinph

Schools can be opened and maintain a limited social distancing by don't have any school trips, limit interactions between the year groups, staggered break times etc. The teachers can manage to handle keeping apart from each other. That limits the spread immediately through the entire school such that there is more chance of noticing and shutting down that particular school for a couple of weeks. The pupils at the school are generally all going to be from the local area. If there is a rise in cases in that area then shut down the local schools for a couple of weeks.

The risk to the wider community comes from the parents mixing with a wider geographic area on their commutes into work and the time they then spend sat in their offices, they bring it back home, it spreads to another family via school and then to a completely different geographic area from a different family who work in a different town 40 miles in the other direction.

Needs a major re-think in how everyones work and lives are carried out, but we're not getting out of this anytime soon unless changes are made. Continue with office workers having to work from home wherever possible, or limiting time in their offices. Manual worker have to be completely redesigned in how close people can work next to each other but still getting things done, having people in on shifts with only half the staff in at a time, but all depends on the type of work. If they can't figure out how to make it work then society just has to accept that type of work/ product isn't going to happen anymore.

Shops on high streets can re-open and have limited people in at a time. Major shopping centres have to change their loading bays at the back of each shop into the entrances and people can then get into the shops in limited numbers at a time, but nobody is going in a milling around inside. You can then operate the queuing system for each shop individually outside.

Lots of impossible things need to be figured out, but there isn't any other fix coming any time soon. New ways of living our lives need to be figured out whilst keeping distance from each other.

tom1ie

So China have reported 108 new cases overnight.
That’s with the strictest lockdown on the planet.
C19 is not going away anytime soon.

BanditLuke

paw patrol wrote: »

I don't care anymore these restrictions are pox.

the chance to make a change has passed. they allowed trips to Italy and Cheltenham and the infected to visit here (Italy in particular) .
On that note I find it odd no reports of mass infections within the Chinese community in Ireland given the Chinese new year was in Jan and some Chinese did go home to visit for that.

There were illnesses before and there will be illnesses again. The idea of being locked up to avoid them is bull****. Are we going to do this every time something happens .

I'm fortunate I can work from home but thousands are living on the dole with debts mounting up. For what?
What debts are the state adding to the national debt? Years of high taxation ahead for us all.
quality of life is more important than any of this ****e.

Take precautions for sure, wear a mask. clean your hands and don't snot on things. Stay in if you are fearful . But life should go on for the rest of us.

It's to avoid a surge. You mightn't care about saving as many as we can but thankfully many do including our government. Stay at home.

starbaby2003

BanditLuke wrote: »

Eh yeah hence why relaxing the lockdown and letting them back in was a bad idea. Maybe you need to read what i posted before jumping to conclusions.

Irish Nationals can return right now, there is no restriction on it. In fact, the government are running planes in some cases to bring them back. Please clarify how it is related to the relaxation of restrictions?

paw patrol

I don't care anymore these restrictions are pox.

the chance to make a change has passed. they allowed trips to Italy and Cheltenham and the infected to visit here (Italy in particular) .
On that note I find it odd no reports of mass infections within the Chinese community in Ireland given the Chinese new year was in Jan and some Chinese did go home to visit for that.

There were illnesses before and there will be illnesses again. The idea of being locked up to avoid them is bull****. Are we going to do this every time something happens .

I'm fortunate I can work from home but thousands are living on the dole with debts mounting up. For what?
What debts are the state adding to the national debt? Years of high taxation ahead for us all.
quality of life is more important than any of this ****e.

Take precautions for sure, wear a mask. clean your hands and don't snot on things. Stay in if you are fearful . But life should go on for the rest of us.

gozunda

lord quackinton wrote: »

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.businessinsider.com/economic-outlook-q2-gdp-lower-unemployment-jump-coronavirus-impact-goldman-2020-3%3fampPlease read and try and understand nothing will be the same again
If we don’t act now to protect our local economy we will suffer greatly Remember what trump said a few weeks ago - Ireland does a lot of good work for us in pharma but it’s time those companies come home The second part was barely reported by the media but the pressure on those companies to bring r&d back to the states will be too much now Can those who are behind this lockdown please even admit what is coming And explain why they still believe in this lockdown madness.I can guess why posters here are so gung ho on this lockdown, we all can
It’s why most did not answer my question on what their personal situations are Pure and utter selfishness

Do you always write such complete and utter drivel? Replacing reality with your own deranged fiction really doesn't make for any type of coherent argument no matter which way you look at.

The current restrictions are there to lower the rates of infection and to stop our health system collapsing and impairing our society for a much longer than any time limited period. We are not the only country facing this crisis. And of course things are going to change as a result - thats a given. Get a grip ffs.

CruelSummer

Ned Led Zeppo wrote: »

The restrictions should not be lifted till a vaccine is made available to the entire world.
I believe the current restrictions will be still in place for the next 1-2 years.

And who will put food on the table, pay the bills, keep the world turning? Pure madness.

BanditLuke

starbaby2003 wrote: »

Did you even read the article? It’s from Chinese nationals returning to China.

Eh yeah hence why relaxing the lockdown and letting them back in was a bad idea. Maybe you need to read what i posted before jumping to conclusions.

brick tamland

BanditLuke wrote: »

2nd wave on the way in China. Relaxing lockdown has failed.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/coronavirus-live-pandemic-uk-updates-21856696

You didn't ny even read it did you. Zero about it been related to lifting of resriction. Its not even in that part of China where they lifted them. Ususl hysyerical tripe

[Deleted User]

lord quackinton wrote: »

Another personal attack
Please answer my question
You are for the lockdown no matter the economic fallout
What is your personal situation
Where do you work
Where do you live
Are you renter or homeowner

I already gave you my personal situation as did many posters over the course of the thread. I'm 29, renting an apartment and work in Cork. I've faced a 20% reduction in my salary. I've got a chronic illness but not in a cocooning category.

I don't favour an unrestricted lockdown but I don't believe anyone does in this thread... There is gonna be economic fallout but that applies to the entire globe. Eg my current company expects drastic revenue drops because of the international situation.

Ultimately I think a lockdown is entirely necessary, yes we're gonna be economically hit but it's far better than throwing the vulnerable to wolves basically. And the fact that frontline workers would be put in even greater danger. So get over yourself tbh.

I imagine the lockdown will be dropped in a few weeks but also many restrictions are gonna remain with us for the foreseeable. This is a global change and not just related to some isolated Irish economy.

starbaby2003

BanditLuke wrote: »

2nd wave on the way in China. Relaxing lockdown has failed.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/coronavirus-live-pandemic-uk-updates-21856696

Did you even read the article? It’s from Chinese nationals returning to China.

brick tamland

Deleted User wrote: »

If some retail reopens (which I think it probably will) and tradesmen be allowed to work, then it goes without saying I think that the 2km restriction will be unworkable

Its unenforceable at the moment. Its relying on people just needing to use common sense

BanditLuke

2nd wave on the way in China. Relaxing lockdown has failed.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/coronavirus-live-pandemic-uk-updates-21856696

Cork Boy 53

rusty the athlete wrote: »

What utter BS. How do you enforce it? A gard outside everyone's house? How do you know how many food trips we make and who would keep count? Do you seriously want to criminalize people who go shopping or take exercise? Must be the dumbest post ever posted to this thread.

Not even close to it. IMO the dumbest posts come from the head in the sand/nothing to see here merchants of which there are no shortage of on this and other covid-19 threads.

iamwhoiam

I think they will have to allow the cocooned group a short walk outside soon ., We look out the window here and not a soul to be seen , the roads are quiet most of the day with the odd walker out exercising .There is no reason why a 70 year old could not take a walk avoiding any contact and be vigilant . Even if they did meet another they can cross the road and be 5- 6 metres away .The vast majority in that group are well aware they have to be extra careful not to be close to anyone