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Relaxation of restrictions

Red Alert

Simon Harris curiously made a comment that there was a limit to how long people could put up with extreme level of restrictions as we currently have. Already we’re seeing in Italy that people are starting to get restless. So two big questions:

1) on Easter Sunday, do you think there will be further restrictions, no change with just an extension or some relaxation?

2) what will be the first thing rolled back?

My own guess would be: extension for at least 1 week. Then to allow some businesses like DIY shops to reopen, perhaps allow gatherings of 2/3 people, maybe a token increase on 2km.

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[Deleted User]

User142 wrote: »

Cocooning of the elderly isn't going to end next month. The UKs cocooning is for at least 12 weeks. Our cocooning isn't going to be 5 weeks.

I would like to able to visit my dad's place who lives alone in the countryside but it's about 120km away. Even if it was to drop some groceries outside his porch and give him a quick wave, he's in his 70's. I work from home since early March, have had very little to no contact with anyone outside, but for him, even though he will not say it, it's hard. As far as I'm concerned that is an essential journey. If the 2km restrictions and the cocooning are extended beyond the 5th of May and stretched out to June, there's going to be some severe damage done to many people.

Tell me how

citysights wrote: »

Why is everyone here so obsessed with Trump seriously. Haven’t we enough to worry about, Trump is just like so many people’s deflection strategy.

Because, the US is a world leader in influencing opinion and also because his behavior is of such a magnitude that it is literally history in the making and so is of interest to a great number of people.

Tell me how

niallo27 wrote: »

So the alternative is what exactly, keep everyone locked down. Nobody is saying completely back to normal, just a lifting of some restrictions. Its going be tough, but we are ****ed, somebody has to make some sacrifices.

We are still at the point where we are trying to figure out just what the scenario is before leaving it all to a single demographic to make sacrifices while others start returning to normal.

If, we get to a point where we have the ability to test rapidly (easy access, quick result) along with very dependable contact tracing and a healthcare system which can manage the Covid-19 patients which comes its way, we might be able to release a lot of the restrictions which are in place in relation to work environments.

If, as some suggest, that the true number for those needing hospitalisation (and therefore the mortality rate) is actually much less as a percentage of the total population than we think at this point in time, then that too might support reducing restrictions.

If, tests for antibodies can show those who are immune, resistant or post infection then that also might support reducing restrictions.

If a vaccine is developed, that would also (at a much slower rate than the above) help with removing restrictions.

But, for now, we have too many if's to reduce or remove restrictions but in 3 weeks, we will have more information to either support extended the lockdown, or starting to rollback.

User142

Cocooning of the elderly isn't going to end next month. The UKs cocooning is for at least 12 weeks. Our cocooning isn't going to be 5 weeks.

martingriff

Padre_Pio wrote: »

Say I have a restaurant with 60 seats.

Social distancing of 1m min means I have to take 40 seats away. Everyone is fearful of crowds so few are bothering to venture out. How does this work exactly?

Then you can't open or start a takeout service or put every table in a glass box

citysights

Tenzor07 wrote: »

You might want to stick with Donald Trump's daily briefings so...

Why is everyone here so obsessed with Trump seriously. Haven’t we enough to worry about, Trump is just like so many people’s deflection strategy.

r93kaey5p2izun

niallo27 wrote: »

So the alternative is what exactly, keep everyone locked down. Nobody is saying completely back to normal, just a lifting of some restrictions. Its going be tough, but we are ****ed, somebody has to make some sacrifices.

And what is your solution for the issues raised about safely cocooning the elderly while everyone else has restrictions lifted? That's what you are suggesting, so how would you go about addressing problems of childcare and housing?

ZX7R

Tenzor07 wrote: »

It's well know Varadkar has the personality of a plank, maybe Mick Wallace or one of the Heal-Rae's coud step in?

To be fair leo would lean towards the medical side so he would be inclined to be more doom and gloom

niallo27

Sincere Whispering Seaside wrote: »

Yes. People who think the elderly are easily isolated while everyone else gets back to normal seem to live in some parallel reality. The elderly play a hugely significant and vital role in many families and communities. They are not easily removed from the equation! We would need to implement widespread alternative childcare arrangements and rehouse tens of thousands of people to make it work at the very least. If those with serious underlying illnesses are included (since more than just the very select group asked to cocoon would need protection if we were going to allow the virus spread more easily) then we would be looking at a massive hole in our society and workforce, and a massive task to keep them separate from everyone else.

So the alternative is what exactly, keep everyone locked down. Nobody is saying completely back to normal, just a lifting of some restrictions. Its going be tough, but we are ****ed, somebody has to make some sacrifices.

OMM 0000

Cork Boy 53 wrote: »

I would much rather watch and listen to him than the orange buffoon across the Atlantic.

Why do you keep relating things to Trump and then complaining about him?

Are you OK?

r93kaey5p2izun

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Also in my area anyway a huge amount of retired nanas and grandads mind grandchildren after school . So the back to normal means lots of workers have no childcare . The school pick up and drop off are very often done by grandparents m
In my own family of 5 siblings four of us mind grandchildren or pick up from school for working parents

Yes. People who think the elderly are easily isolated while everyone else gets back to normal seem to live in some parallel reality. The elderly play a hugely significant and vital role in many families and communities. They are not easily removed from the equation! We would need to implement widespread alternative childcare arrangements and rehouse tens of thousands of people to make it work at the very least. If those with serious underlying illnesses are included (since more than just the very select group asked to cocoon would need protection if we were going to allow the virus spread more easily) then we would be looking at a massive hole in our society and workforce, and a massive task to keep them separate from everyone else.

Tenzor07

pgj2015 wrote: »

things are actually going well here, why are they so negative about it? Trump is living in a dream world and I really wouldnt want him being my president but you could have someone who is somewhere in the middle.
I want a Taoiseach that gives hope, imagine what he would be like if we were in a situation like Italy were a couple of weeks ago.

It's well know Varadkar has the personality of a plank, maybe Mick Wallace or one of the Heal-Rae's coud step in?

pgj2015

Tenzor07 wrote: »

You might want to stick with Donald Trump's daily briefings so...

things are actually going well here, why are they so negative about it? Trump is living in a dream world and I really wouldnt want him being my president but you could have someone who is somewhere in the middle.

I want a Taoiseach that gives hope, imagine what he would be like if we were in a situation like Italy were a couple of weeks ago.

alwald

Jenbach110 wrote: »

Someone is human, the tooth fairy aint.

Anyhow, it was a family member

People are free to accept taking the risk, what they aren't free to do is leave their home for an unnecessary journey or travel beyond 2 km from their home until the 5th of May at least. This is for the good of the nation as a whole to tackle COVID-19. The good of the nation comes first and not the selfish wish of an individual.

Jenbach110

KiKi III wrote: »

You've asked this question a couple of times and I'd be interested to hear your own answer to it.

I dont know, Im curious what peoples opininons are.

Take someone whos 85, life and the simple joys are suspended indefinitely, how long are they willing to continue as is?
As fit and healthy as an 85 year old is every month is precious, time is not in abundance at that age.

Im unsure how many 85 year old use boards.ie

Cork Boy 53

pgj2015 wrote: »

just watched the rte news there, first time i have seen it in a while. jesus, i wont be watching it again for a long long time. what did we have yesterday here 34 deaths? only 14 today, did they mention that as a positive? did they $hite. its all doom and gloom. i voted fine gael in the election but im getting sick of Leo with his doom and gloom attitude as well, I think when this is all over people are going to associate him with this hardship and it wont end well for him.

he was the same way on 17th march, hes not really someone that gives you hope is he? so depressing listening to him.

I would much rather watch and listen to him than the orange buffoon across the Atlantic.

iamwhoiam

Sincere Whispering Seaside wrote: »

Yes they would be ok with that. They all live with younger healthier people though. The housing crisis has affected all of their families. Some have children living with them, a lot live with children. That will have to be addressed. It would also mean the care workers, home helps, nurses etc would remain a massive risk to the elderly if they didn't maintain restrictions. That's a big cause for concern to them.

Also in my area anyway a huge amount of retired nanas and grandads mind grandchildren after school . So the back to normal means lots of workers have no childcare . The school pick up and drop off are very often done by grandparents m
In my own family of 5 siblings four of us mind grandchildren or pick up from school for working parents

Tenzor07

pgj2015 wrote: »

just watched the rte news there, first time i have seen it in a while. jesus, i wont be watching it again for a long long time. what did we have yesterday here 34 deaths? only 14 today, did they mention that as a positive? did they $hite. its all doom and gloom. i voted fine gael in the election but im getting sick of Leo with his doom and gloom attitude as well, I think when this is all over people are going to associate him with this hardship and it wont end well for him. he was the same way on 17th march, hes not really someone that gives you hope is he? so depressing listening to him.

You might want to stick with Donald Trump's daily briefings so...

Jenbach110

alwald wrote: »

I spoke to the tooth fairy and was told that no-one should take a risk with COVID-19. I am actually using the same level of argumentation as yourself.

Someone is human, the tooth fairy aint.

Anyhow, it was a family member

pgj2015

just watched the rte news there, first time i have seen it in a while. jesus, i wont be watching it again for a long long time. what did we have yesterday here 34 deaths? only 14 today, did they mention that as a positive? did they $hite. its all doom and gloom. i voted fine gael in the election but im getting sick of Leo with his doom and gloom attitude as well, I think when this is all over people are going to associate him with this hardship and it wont end well for him.

he was the same way on 17th march, hes not really someone that gives you hope is he? so depressing listening to him.

alwald

Jenbach110 wrote: »

Ive spoken to someone in the vunerable category who would be happy to take the risk eventually.

I spoke to the tooth fairy and was told that no-one should take a risk with COVID-19. I am actually using the same level of argumentation as yourself.

r93kaey5p2izun

niallo27 wrote: »

That's brilliant, let's isolate them to keep them safe and let the younger and healthier people get on with getting back to normal.

Yes they would be ok with that. They all live with younger healthier people though. The housing crisis has affected all of their families. Some have children living with them, a lot live with children. That will have to be addressed. It would also mean the care workers, home helps, nurses etc would remain a massive risk to the elderly if they didn't maintain restrictions. That's a big cause for concern to them.

KiKi III

Jenbach110 wrote: »

Attitudes like this are perhaps one of the more demoralising effects of the virus. Its the shaming of the elderly who are petrified to become a burden.

I can only say everyone has a right to life and there is worse things than death itself. Not living is one of them, none of us are living until restrictions are lifted, the elderly included.

At what point do the restrictions become a worse fate than Covid itself?

You've asked this question a couple of times and I'd be interested to hear your own answer to it.

iamwhoiam

niallo27 wrote: »

That's brilliant, let's isolate them to keep them safe and let the younger and healthier people get on with getting back to normal.

Do you think honestly that just by sheltering the older generation you can suddenly pop out and back to normal and nothing will happen you ? It is out there snd carried by every age group .Having the older generation stay indoors is not going to protect you out there

Jenbach110

Stateofyou wrote: »

I can understand the incredibly difficult position you're in. But what happens when you become a burden on the health care system as do many others who feel the same way as you. What happens when you infect your family (and god forbid they don't make it), or they infect you- fine you're willing to take the risk but then who do you pass it on to before you realise you're sick. How would your family feel with the burden of knowing one of them were responsible for your death? Isn't all that the problem at the end of the day?

Attitudes like this are perhaps one of the more demoralising effects of the virus. Its the shaming of the elderly who are petrified to become a burden.

I can only say everyone has a right to a life and there is worse things than death itself. Not living is one of them, none of us are living until restrictions are lifted, the elderly included.

At what point do the restrictions become a worse fate than Covid itself?

Loafing Oaf

Jenbach110 wrote: »

Very poetic.

Mass could be adapted for communion though!

Maybe with one of these:

Regular sunday mass might be manageable in a lot of places but I struggle to see how you could impose meaningful social distancing at funerals if you relax the current restrictions

niallo27

Sincere Whispering Seaside wrote: »

The many elderly people in my family feel the opposite to the above. They all believe they have many years left in them, even if that's unlikely in some cases, and want to do everything necessary in the medium term to ensure they get to live those many years. They feel there's still plenty of life to live under the restrictions and believe it's mad that people can't suck it up for a year or so to get this sorted.

That's brilliant, let's isolate them to keep them safe and let the younger and healthier people get on with getting back to normal.

Spencer Brown

Sincere Whispering Seaside wrote: »

That's what they think! Not widespread shut downs of business, but physical distancing and staying within your household unless essential.

You can't have all businesses open and people staying within their homes unless essential, most business aren't essential.

iamwhoiam

Stateofyou wrote: »

I can understand the incredibly difficult position you're in. But what happens when you become a burden on the health care system as do many others who feel the same way as you. What happens when you infect your family (and god forbid they don't make it), or they infect you- fine you're willing to take the risk but then who do you pass it on to before you realise you're sick. How would your family feel with the burden of knowing one of them were responsible for your death? Isn't all that the problem at the end of the day?

If you lock a whole generation away they will eventually become a burden . Stiffening joints , mental deterioration , lack of freshair for some , lack of stimulation etc etc.
And the very same risk of passing it on applies to every age group by the way
The elderly are not more likely to carry it , or pass it on , they are more likely to suffer badly from it all right

How would you feel if you were out and about and passed it on to a pregnant woman ? Passing it on is not exclusive to the older generation

r93kaey5p2izun

Spencer Brown wrote: »

Suck it up for a year or so? If only it was that simple.

That's what they think! Not widespread shut downs of business, but physical distancing and staying within your household unless essential.