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Relaxation of restrictions

Red Alert

Simon Harris curiously made a comment that there was a limit to how long people could put up with extreme level of restrictions as we currently have. Already we’re seeing in Italy that people are starting to get restless. So two big questions:

1) on Easter Sunday, do you think there will be further restrictions, no change with just an extension or some relaxation?

2) what will be the first thing rolled back?

My own guess would be: extension for at least 1 week. Then to allow some businesses like DIY shops to reopen, perhaps allow gatherings of 2/3 people, maybe a token increase on 2km.

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niallo27

Cork Boy 53 wrote: »

In that case the current penalties need to be strictly implemented and if that doesn`t work introduce harsher measures.

Again so you want to punish the vast majority because of a tiny minority, you honestly think that's fair first and wont cause a lot of unrest secondly.

jmayo

lord quackinton wrote: »

Those who back this indefinite lockdown
How are you coping with what faces the economy
Are you not worried about your job and you children’s future
I need to know more about posters so I can understand there reasoning

Can I ask what is your personal situation
Before lockdown were you working in private sector, a student, on benefits, a public sector employee, receiving a pension, a renter, a mortgage holder, where you live

I work in finance, live in rural tipp, bought my home outright with money I earned working in Australia in mining,
We are still working and my job is safe but I expect to be told to take a 20% pay cut next month
And in December I expect government to raise taxes across the board and to slash public expenditure
The effects will be brutal and that is why we need to open immediately
The results of 2008 in my local town Were harrowing with many unemployed and suicides jumped but it took 3 years for me to accept that the main result of 2008 was rural Ireland took one hell of a beating and government did not care
The longer the lockdown lasts the very real chance What wealth is left in small towns and villages will disappear forever.
Instead of 10,000 or 20,000 dead nationally you will have many villages and towns turned into wastelands and the results of that will be with us for many years to come

We must open up fully For the good of the nation

Might as well open up a few mass graves as well.

For someone that lives in rural Tipp surely you must have noticed the amount of elderly people that live rurally.
What do you do with them ?
What do you do with their relatives ?

All I ever hear is we have to open everything up for the economy.

But what does that entail ?

Do you want the schools open so teachers and parents can get back to work ?
You do know however schools are breeding grounds for every known disease to man.

Do you want pubs and restaurants to open as they provide huge source of employment ?
Sure pack all the lads/gals into the pubs as you haven't had a drink in one in weeks.
Good luck with any form of social distancing.

Do you want to open shopping centres as they are big source of employment?
Good luck with the social distancing for teenagers though.

Lets open all the factories that make stuff as there is a huge market at the moment for a ....
Oh yeah medical and pharmaceutical, food, drink.
But aren't they open already ?

Lets open all the building sites.
The ones with all the wash facilities for the workers.

appledrop wrote: »

I really dont understand why hardware shops couldnt open in a controlled manner.

After spending 2 weeks queuing for over an hour for groceries + definitely not properly controlled for social distance, how could going to a huge B&Q warehouse for supplies be putting you more st risk?

It would give people something to do. People are cracking up at home. A lot of people take holidays at Easter + some employers have still enforced this even though nowhere to go + nothing to do. At least if they could do a few jobs around the house it would be worth it when this is over.

The problem is some places, like the much loved large hardware shop chains or garden centres, could indeed open as they have space.

But what about the smaller hardware shops like in centre of towns ?
They don't have the space.
Are they supposed to just give up and let the Woodies, BandQs of the world take over ?

Someone mentioned Newsagents and bookshops.
I don't know about most of you but people tend to hang out browsing a lot in those and they are nearly always tight for space so do we just give up on social distancing altogether ?

And the other thing is if one of these opens the idiotic herd mentality, we have already seen with hillwalking/scenic area visiting muppets, will kick in and you will have thousands just visiting the local Woodies simply because it is open.
You will have fookers crawling all over the place looking at drill bits, grass trimmers, wall fixings and paint even though they never lifted s finger in their lives to do anything in or near a home.

kalkat2002

Jenbach110 wrote: »

For what reason were the restrictions continued until May 5th?
ICU still has bed capacity, death rates are managable.
Was that not our goal?
Why would hardware outlets need to remain closed?
A variety of business could be restarted.
Is there any chance these restrictions could be reviewed?

Who is the one to do it? Spain from tuesday...
Better wait and see the results there...

road_high

pjohnson wrote: »

Better than letting thick cúnts spread it wildly. Do you generally oppose the idea of following regulations and restrictions?

No I don’t and no need for the hysteria think we’ve all had our fill of that for a lifetime

Sierra Oscar

Jenbach110 wrote: »

For what reason were the restrictions continued until May 5th?
ICU still has bed capacity, death rates are managable.
Was that not our goal?
Why would hardware outlets need to remain closed?
A variety of business could be restarted.
Is there any chance these restrictions could be reviewed?

Tony Holohan has made it explicitly clear in recent briefings that restrictions cannot be lifted until testing is consistent and result turn around times are brought down to 24 hours. The purpose of that is to aid contact tracing, so that when there are outbreaks they can be quickly isolated and brought under control. Contact tracing teams are also being significantly beefed up at the moment too.

That's why we have seen an extension of restrictions. Until the above happens the lifting of restrictions will just lead to a rapid spread of the virus - especially considering it is currently in communities all over the country.

niallo27

pjohnson wrote: »

Better than letting thick cúnts spread it wildly. Do you generally oppose the idea of following regulations and restrictions?

Nobody said that, this is about harsher restrictions. How you got that from their post I really dont know.

Cork Boy 53

road_high wrote: »

What would you like? Socially isolated hard labour?

I`m talking about measures such as the 2km limit for exercise being reduced to zero, journeys even if they are to foodstores or chemists being reduced to 1 or 2 days a week. Also increasing the fines and /or prison sentences for those who still ignore the rules.

mandrake04

lord quackinton wrote: »

Those who back this indefinite lockdown
How are you coping with what faces the economy
Are you not worried about your job and you children’s future
I need to know more about posters so I can understand there reasoning

Can I ask what is your personal situation
Before lockdown were you working in private sector, a student, on benefits, a public sector employee, receiving a pension, a renter, a mortgage holder, where you live

I work in finance, live in rural tipp, bought my home outright with money I earned working in Australia in mining,
We are still working and my job is safe but I expect to be told to take a 20% pay cut next month
And in December I expect government to raise taxes across the board and to slash public expenditure
The effects will be brutal and that is why we need to open immediately
The results of 2008 in my local town Were harrowing with many unemployed and suicides jumped but it took 3 years for me to accept that the main result of 2008 was rural Ireland took one hell of a beating and government did not care
The longer the lockdown lasts the very real chance What wealth is left in small towns and villages will disappear forever.
Instead of 10,000 or 20,000 dead nationally you will have many villages and towns turned into wastelands and the results of that will be with us for many years to come

We must open up fully For the good of the nation

I work in Healthcare specifically Nuclear Diagnostics.

People dying is one thing, but this disease can affect anyone of any age and some of those who survive could have reduced lifespan or reduced quality of life and possible neurological problems from treatment. We just don’t know, who wants to take the risk?

Also just because someone may have had a mild condition it’s also possible that they might catch a more severe strain the next time.. we just don’t know.

You health is you wealth.

Kermit.de.frog

Jenbach110 wrote: »

For what reason were the restrictions continued until May 5th?
ICU still has bed capacity, death rates are managable.
Was that not our goal?
Why would hardware outlets need to remain closed?
A variety of business could be restarted.
Is there any chance these restrictions could be reviewed?

The achievements you mention are under the conditions on society in place.

Remove those restrictions and cases and deaths may surge.

Then what? Not enough ICU beds, not enough capacity, system overwhelmed.

The problem has not gone away just because of a few weeks of restrictions.

The partial answer lies in being able to act rapidly on new cases, contact trace and isolate.

We could open up some things at smaller risk.

But the actual answer is in a vaccine and I feel we are in restrict mode until that point however those restrictions look at any given time.

niallo27

KrustyUCC wrote: »

Basically that we are doing very well but not where we need to be to lift restrictions

Ok so where do we need to be, it would be good if we were told this on friday.

road_high

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

Tony Holohan has made it explicitly clear in recent briefings that restrictions cannot be lifted until testing is consistent and result turn around times are brought down to 24 hours. The purpose of that is to aid contact tracing, so that when there are outbreaks they can be quickly isolated and brought under control. Contact tracing teams are also being significantly beefed up at the moment too.

That's why we have seen an extension of restrictions. Until the above happens the lifting of restrictions will just lead to a rapid spread of the virus - especially considering it is currently in communities all over the country.

And there in lies the problem. We have not performed well with testing. Did no one calculate how much reagent, kits and lab capacity we had before opening all these “test centres” that have been often idle?

Sweet.Science

Even Spain are lifting restrictions come Monday .

donaghs

mandrake04 wrote: »

I work in Healthcare specifically Nuclear Diagnostics.

People dying is one thing, but this disease can affect anyone of any age and some of those who survive could have reduced lifespan or reduced quality of life and possible neurological problems from treatment. We just don’t know, who wants to take the risk?

Also just because someone may have had a mild condition it’s also possible that they might catch a more severe strain the next time.. we just don’t know.

You health is you wealth.

In a recession, public healthcare will have cut-backs. Nobody wants this, but its happened every time. Lots of people won't be able to afford private health insurance. Suicides, substance abuse, etc etc.

Life expectancy will suffer, depending on how bad the recession is. The question is where, but at some point, the economic devastation and its impact on the mortality rate will be worse than Covid.

Sierra Oscar

Sweet.Science wrote: »

Even Spain are lifting restrictions come Monday .

They are easing restrctions, not lifting them.

Spain have had far more stringent restrictions than Ireland. Only grocery stores and pharmacies have been open there.

Meanwhile our list of 'essential' services is pretty comprehensive. The manufacturing sector is still in operation. Spain are only allowing their factories to open from Monday - most of them never closed here.

jams100

Cork Boy 53 wrote: »

I`m talking about measures such as the 2km limit for exercise being reduced to zero, journeys even if they are to foodstores or chemists being reduced to 1 or 2 days a week. Also increasing the fines and /or prison sentences for those who still ignore the rules.

Zero exercise is a step too far imo

Jenbach110

Cork Boy 53 wrote: »

I`m talking about measures such as the 2km limit for exercise being reduced to zero, journeys even if they are to foodstores or chemists being reduced to 1 or 2 days a week. Also increasing the fines and /or prison sentences for those who still ignore the rules.

Why would you be in favour of something like this?

stephenjmcd

At the end of the day they're going to watch how Denmark and Austria do when they start to relax some restrictions this week. Varadkar said it himself.

If everything is in place to what the NPHET want then they'll start to unwind restrictions in May and take it extremely slowly from there on. People seem to think the aim is to stamp out this virus they've said it's not and it's not realistic to wait for a vaccine as much as some people want to believe it is, it's to bring it to a level where its manageable alongside normal life.

It'll take time to get back to that normal life

SNNUS

Cork Boy 53 wrote: »

I`m talking about measures such as the 2km limit for exercise being reduced to zero, journeys even if they are to foodstores or chemists being reduced to 1 or 2 days a week. Also increasing the fines and /or prison sentences for those who still ignore the rules.

You are sentencing everyone to prison even though they are following the guidelines. The 5% who can't be policed will not change no matter what restrictions are put in place . stop scaremongering those who are conforming.

road_high

mandrake04 wrote: »

I work in Healthcare specifically Nuclear Diagnostics.

People dying is one thing, but this disease can affect anyone of any age and some of those who survive could have reduced lifespan or reduced quality of life and possible neurological problems from treatment. We just don’t know, who wants to take the risk?

Also just because someone may have had a mild condition it’s also possible that they might catch a more severe strain the next time.. we just don’t know.

You health is you wealth.

Health is wealth but it costs huge money to maintain and support a functioning health service. Which is impossible without a functioning economy. The longer that goes on the greater the pressure becomes on budgets from tax revenue.

KiKi III

Sweet.Science wrote: »

Even Spain are lifting restrictions come Monday .

Yeah, because they have passed their peak. We have yet to pass ours.

jmayo

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

The achievements you mention are under the conditions on society in place.

Remove those restrictions and cases and deaths may surge.

Then what? Not enough ICU beds, not enough capacity, system overwhelmed.

The problem has not gone away just because of a few weeks of restrictions.

The partial answer lies in being able to act rapidly on new cases, contact trace and isolate.

We could open up some things at smaller risk.

But the actual answer is in a vaccine and I feel we are in restrict mode until that point however those restrictions look at any given time.

Kermit you are wasting your time trying to explain stuff to some people.

There are more than a few posters, and people out there, who see this as a problem that affects someone else and not them.
They see it as a major concern for older elderly people and those with compromised immune systems, etc.
They are young healthy and thus don't see why there are restrictions on them.
And they look at what effects it is having on their pockets and their future earnings.

You have muppets that think the numbers should fall overnight once lockdown of some sort is in place.
You have those that think the hospitals will be fine as it is only old and sick people that will need to get treatment.
And they will be conveniently locked away out of sight.
Sure anyway the staff can't get it as they are healthy. :rolleyes:

Then you have the ones that think the rules should not apply to them.
They have right to sit in park on their own, go visit beach or beauty spot.
But they never think what happens when all the other me feiners decide to do likewise.:rolleyes:

Some of these believ they have a right to go visit their holiday home.
And why the fook should the natives mind standing in a long queue for essentials in a local shop as afteral the blowins will only be in there for a minute to get their ice creams.

Yes that sh** has supposedly happened in small village in South East.

Kermit.de.frog

Sweet.Science wrote: »

Even Spain are lifting restrictions come Monday .

They are relaxing some restrictions on non essential workers.

They are not wholesale lifting restrictions which will remain in place until next month at the earliest.

Also, like Denmark opening primary schools restrictions will be reimposed if cases/deaths increase.

normanoffside

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

Tony Holohan has made it explicitly clear in recent briefings that restrictions cannot be lifted until testing is consistent and result turn around times are brought down to 24 hours. The purpose of that is to aid contact tracing, so that when there are outbreaks they can be quickly isolated and brought under control. Contact tracing teams are also being significantly beefed up at the moment too.

In other words we are buying time for the HSE to get it's house in order.
They currently have no idea if the restriction measures have been working because the tests coming back are from people infected weeks and in some cases months ago.

That's how I understand it.

Cork Boy 53

Sweet.Science wrote: »

Even Spain are lifting restrictions come Monday.

If and when there is a huge spike in new cases/deaths/ICU admissions as a result of doing this the Spanish authorities will soon clamp down again.

marno21

The point of restrictions is to reduce the amount of hospital and ICU admissions to a rate at which the health service is able to cope. This has been achieved to date, and many of the admissions to date have been from people who got infected pre lockdown

What would be the benefit of further restrictions? Is driving people around the twist the objective here?

jams100

SNNUS wrote: »

You are sentencing everyone to prison even though they are following the guidelines. The 5% who can't be policed will not change no matter what restrictions are put in place . stop scaremongering those who are conforming.

Is it even 5%? From what I can see its less than 1%
Then again, because I'm generally complying with restrictions i haven't been out much to see.

In the 21st century however, if one person out of a thousand doesn't comply with restrictions a picture will be uploaded to Facebook and shared a thousand times, the other 999 people, no picture uploaded. Hence the impression I think we have is that a larger cohurt are evading the restrictions than is actually the case

road_high

marno21 wrote: »

The point of restrictions is to reduce the amount of hospital and ICU admissions to a rate at which the health service is able to cope. This has been achieved to date, and many of the admissions to date have been from people who got infected pre lockdown

What would be the benefit of further restrictions? Is driving people around the twist the objective here?

Yes it would seem from several posters. “Everyone has to be miserable like I am” logic. Can’t see why they can’t do all they preach privately and let the rest of us follow the already very severe restrictions

niallo27

When a poster says about lifting restrictions, they mean relaxing the restrictions a certain degree and not completely remove them.

TheCitizen

Jenbach110 wrote: »

For what reason were the restrictions continued until May 5th?
ICU still has bed capacity, death rates are managable.
Was that not our goal?
Why would hardware outlets need to remain closed?
A variety of business could be restarted.
Is there any chance these restrictions could be reviewed?

Cos we haven't reached the peak yet. Get to the other side of the peak and then things can start opening up again. Keep your discipline.

donaghs

jmayo wrote: »

They are young healthy and thus don't see why there are restrictions on them.
And they look at what effects it is having on their pockets and their future earnings.

No one knows how bad things can get, but deliberating sending the world into a new Great Depression, goes beyond "what effects it is having on their pockets and their future earnings".

The last recession started in 2008, most people didn't feel the effects till 2009. Four weeks into the lockdown, people are taking pay cuts, business are closing for good. You don't think this could have serious health/mortality implications for people?

Again, its about figuring out an exit strategy, gradually opening up, accepting that this virus here to stay, that we can't make a vaccine in a year.

That we may have to accept a slightly higher death rate this year, to try and prevent a situation in future where we can no longer provide health care for everyone for how many years the next recession/depression takes.