A head doctor at a major hospital in Sweden says the current approach will “probably end in a historical massacre.” He says healthcare workers at his hospital who have tested positive for the virus but are asymptomatic have been advised to continue working. He asked to remain anonymous because “it is frowned upon to speak of the epidemic or to go against the official vision” but said he felt a need to speak out from an “ethical and medical point of view.”
Joe_ Public wrote: » This bit in that article is a little bit vague for my liking:. "The researchers also concluded that people who recover from the infection are immune to reinfection, at least for a while."
thebaz wrote: » Swedish figures today New cases 466 New deaths 17 Ireland New cases 839 New deaths. 33 Surely they should be inverted according to experts models ?
KiKi III wrote: » I believe (open to correction) they are only testing people who need to go to hospital and only counting deaths in hospital. If we left out all the deaths happening in nursing homes our figures would be a lot lower too.
glasso wrote: » well they can't say definitively at this early date can they.... the people tested for immunity there are not long through the experience.... these Germans are careful feckers.
Joe_ Public wrote: » Well thats the point, bit early maybe to be making arguments for going back to normal when those gaps in knowledgeable remain to be filled in.
Joe_ Public wrote: » Even people in Sweden are calling it the "great experiment." I'm happy not to be in a situation where I'm feeling like a lab rat.
Blut2 wrote: » This is really worth quoting for a new page. We should really be seeing a rapid loosening of restrictions now, given this data.
Turtwig wrote: » The fatality ratio only applies when there's sufficient healthcare to meet demand.
Nermal wrote: » Let's see your data. You're responding to a post with a cite - where's yours?
2u2me wrote: » Just because the death rate may be a lot lower than expected doesn't necessarily mean loosening restrictions being the right course of action. The logic Turtwig points out is sound, Just look at Italy; over-burdening the hospitals all at once can lead to people dying from very treatable conditions.
2u2me wrote: » In this experiment they would be called the 'control group' !
Logan Roy wrote: » We're in an experiment of our own, how can people not understand this. There's absolutely no proof at all that in the long run our approach works better than theirs.
Bridge93 wrote: » Sweden do not test or record anything outside of their hospitals. Do not take any notice of their numbers. They’ve left swathes of their population to die
Jurgen Klopp wrote: » What should be happening is each government should be following Iceland's and Germanys path by sending out teams to randomly sample their population from different areas Not this craic so far where a lot nations are just testing those who present to hospital or have to meet a high criteria which is whipping media and populations into hysteria It would give an interesting picture
timsey tiger wrote: » Reports of fast tracked vaccines being ready to roll out in September today from UK. I guess these might be wishful thinking or complete over selling, but if it comes to pass, then a lock-down wound in hindsight be seen as the way to go. I guess.https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-vaccine-could-be-ready-as-early-as-september-according-to-scientist-11971804
Joe_ Public wrote: » . All you can say is that every success story at this early stage has involved either a restrictive approach or very aggressive testing and contact tracing or both. Thats it so far, i havent heard of any counter strategy working effectively yet. I just want to be with the herd on this one. If it turns out I've been backing the wrong horse, I'll shrug and say that's where I'd have wanted to be everytime anyway.
glasso wrote: » can you link to definitive evidence showing how many would have been saved in Italy and how many died specifically because of ventilator shortage?
A total of 17,127 people have died from the virus in Italy,the most anywhere in the world, with Lombardy accounting for 55%of the tally. The region also accounts for 39% of the country's 135,586 confirmed cases. The particularly large death toll in Lombardy, thewealthiest region in Italy, has raised eyebrows, with local officials suggesting that both the high urban density andconsiderable elderly population might have played a part. However, a damning letter by senior doctors, including the heads of 11 provincial health authorities within Lombardy, said failures in the region's health system had exacerbated the greatest emergency Italy has faced since World War Two[...] While the neighbouring region of Veneto engaged in widespread testing in a known coronavirus hotspot, Lombardy only tested the seriously ill arriving for treatment in hospital,saying they did not have the capacity for wider checks.
timsey tiger wrote: » Two ways of looking at it imo. Yes you could say that, though this isn't an experiment, it's an experience. or Not really, they know that they are the control group. For an experiment, neither they nor their physician should know whether they were the control or not.
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