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Relaxation of restrictions

Red Alert

Simon Harris curiously made a comment that there was a limit to how long people could put up with extreme level of restrictions as we currently have. Already we’re seeing in Italy that people are starting to get restless. So two big questions:

1) on Easter Sunday, do you think there will be further restrictions, no change with just an extension or some relaxation?

2) what will be the first thing rolled back?

My own guess would be: extension for at least 1 week. Then to allow some businesses like DIY shops to reopen, perhaps allow gatherings of 2/3 people, maybe a token increase on 2km.

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alwald

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

You will also loose alot of people due to a destroyed economy. The two are not mutually exclusive.

I don't follow you here. Can you elaborate please?

Discodog wrote: »

yes but whilst you are reviving the economy you make cuts in services which can also kill people. One reason we are in a mess is because of previous health cuts.

I disagree with this statement, while cuts might happen and they remain to be seen, previous cuts are not the reason we are in this mess. All countries around the world are in this mess regardless of how much they spent/cut from their health system. No-one planned for such unforeseen events.

Sam Hain

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

You will also loose alot of people due to a destroyed economy. The two are not mutually exclusive.

The word is not "loose".

Discodog

alwald wrote: »

The dilemma between the impact on the economy versus the human life is simple for me. You can revive an economy, one way or another, especially now that the entire world is in the same mess, but you can't revive a dead person and you only get to live once.

yes but whilst you are reviving the economy you make cuts in services which can also kill people. One reason we are in a mess is because of previous health cuts.

Plumbthedepths

alwald wrote: »

The dilemma between the impact on the economy versus the human life is simple for me. You can revive an economy, one way or another, especially now that the entire world is in the same mess, but you can't revive a dead person and you only get to live once.

You will also lose alot of people due to a destroyed economy. The two are not mutually exclusive.

alwald

The dilemma between the impact on the economy versus the human life is simple for me. You can revive an economy, one way or another, especially now that the entire world is in the same mess, but you can't revive a dead person and you only get to live once.

Discodog

KiKi III wrote: »

Hardware and gardening shops are going to be open on Tuesday. Legally they were allowed to open this weekend but the government asked them to stay closed to avoid a bank holiday spike.

It was reported in the Indo.

Really ? I know people that have been lobbying for this & I didn't see it. Gardeners are desperate to get back & there is no reason why they shouldn't as they can easily distance.

So they can legally open but are advised not to - that's helpful

Plumbthedepths

OMM 0000 wrote: »

Black and white thinking is all the rage these days.

Why use nuance when you can jump to extremes and get outraged?

Facebook generation and the seeking of likes, only here it's 'thanks'.

OMM 0000

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

If you think things through and respond in kind you are accused of wanting to see everyone dead.

Black and white thinking is all the rage these days.

Why use nuance when you can jump to extremes and get outraged?

Idbatterim

Last recession, what caused all of the main and issues? before we have a lethal virus to contend with? the states finances obviousl. I think they forecast a deficit now this year of twenty billion. I would say half of that figure is unnceccesary, a lot of workers, are getting more on the E350 payment, than they were working (look, in general, I totally agree that workers should get more if made redundant, but the figures are HUGE and this is the irish government we are talking about, this issue is going to go on and on).

secondly, the shutting down of certain businesses for longer than expected, this is another several billion, as well as possibly finishing many of these companies off. if they havent already...

Listen, thank god I put a few thousand aside. Leo varadkar telling me, FG are the most capable with the "economy" LOL! they might be in this country, but they are blatantly appalling , populist, unwilling to make any "tough choices" not surprised we are run off a cliff again, obviously nobody could have foreseen, this is how it would come about though! But current policies, are going to make things down the road, a lot worse, than they need to be I reckon and I can see fierce backlash, when the music stops and they introduce an emergency budget, to claw back billions, that they themselves have dug a hole for an expect us to pay

completedit

True, It’s so easy for us with families with good sized homes and gardens but not everyone is in this situation. I keep forgetting this when I say the whole situation is grand when the reality for a lot of people it is a brutal situation that is only going to get worse. Absolutely fine and dandy if you’re paid to be at home with the missus and Sorcha and Culann and can save a good bit right now, but for a lot of people the future is now looking very bleak.

It would take the real prospect of a Great Depression for the above to get their head out of their ass.

When is the situation in the clear? When the pressure groups start getting in the government ear.

Plumbthedepths

OMM 0000 wrote: »

And the even bigger divide between the rich and the poor results in greater social unrest, more extreme politicians getting elected, and then we're in trouble.

Barely anyone is thinking things through.

If you think things through and respond in kind you are accused of wanting to see everyone dead.

OMM 0000

Idbatterim wrote: »

what I find hilarious is, when the cost of what is currently doing, has to be paid for, all of the "shut it all down merchants" will be screaming blue murder, when the welfare cuts and tax increaseas and big living standard adjustment come along!

They cant see the few minutes down the road... Trump was saying that this shut down, is costing other lives and costing a fortune, both true. I am not saying lets go back to normal tomorrow, but strike a middle ground, the actualy cost of what they are doing is ridiculous, this isnt some social experiment, its peoples lives. Many of those making the decisions probably go back to their nice big spacious houses and gardens. Jesus I can only imagine some of the awful situations, hundreds of thousands are in, because of this and I am not talking because of employment...

And the even bigger divide between the rich and the poor results in greater social unrest, more extreme politicians getting elected, and then we're in trouble.

Barely anyone is thinking things through.

Lundstram

Idbatterim wrote: »

what I find hilarious is, when the cost of what is currently doing, has to be paid for, all of the "shut it all down merchants" will be screaming blue murder, when the welfare cuts and tax increaseas and big living standard adjustment come along!

They cant see the few minutes down the road... Trump was saying that this shut down, is costing other lives and costing a fortune, both true. I am not saying lets go back to normal tomorrow, but strike a middle ground, the actualy cost of what they are doing is ridiculous, this isnt some social experiment, its peoples lives. Many of those making the decisions probably go back to their nice big spacious houses and gardens. Jesus I can only imagine some of the awful situations, hundreds of thousands are in, because of this and I am not talking because of employment...

Agreed. This can't go on for much longer. 17% unemployed already, potential to rise to 40% by June. There might come a point where the weakest in society will have to cocoon themselves when the restrictions are lifted. Sad but it's for the greater good.

Life will have to move on eventually.

Idbatterim

what I find hilarious is, when the cost of what is currently doing, has to be paid for, all of the "shut it all down merchants" will be screaming blue murder, when the welfare cuts and tax increaseas and big living standard adjustment come along!

They cant see the few minutes down the road... Trump was saying that this shut down, is costing other lives and costing a fortune, both true. I am not saying lets go back to normal tomorrow, but strike a middle ground, the actualy cost of what they are doing is ridiculous, this isnt some social experiment, its peoples lives. Many of those making the decisions probably go back to their nice big spacious houses and gardens. Jesus I can only imagine some of the awful situations, hundreds of thousands are in, because of this and I am not talking because of employment...

Plumbthedepths

Penfailed wrote: »

It's quite simple. There aren't enough masks for everyone.

Make your own, it's also quite simple

KiKi III

Cork Boy 53 wrote: »

Sure if it`s in the Indo it must be gospel.:rolleyes: Any DIY/hardware;garden shops that have been closed for the last 2 weeks will stay closed until at least 5th May. I have been told this by several people who work in them.

There’s some confusion around it and as a result some businesses are choosing to remain closed but it seems like legally they can indeed open.

Plumbthedepths

Cork Boy 53 wrote: »

Sure if it`s in the Indo it must be gospel.:rolleyes: Any DIY/hardware;garden shops that have been closed for the last 2 weeks will stay closed until at least 5th May. I know this from several people who work in them.

Is there any news source that you would find acceptable? Or do you need multiple sources.
Every link provided regardless of the source there is usually someone who will dismiss it as not reliable.

Penfailed

CruelSummer wrote: »

I have started to become firmly of the belief, the 'cure' cannot be worse than the disease. I did not get any reassurance from government yesterday. Something isn't adding up, if Ireland's deaths and cases are actually as being declared, why on earth impose this draconian lockdown for another 3 weeks? WE are not Italy, we are not Madrid, we are not Wuhan.
What is to be achieved by such a long extension, can't even get DIY equipment to keep people busy at home. What is the long term goal? Our economy has to start functioning again, our ICU's and hospital's are not under a lot of pressure. Why can't we just get everyone to wear masks, impose social distancing rules, and start to gradually relax these draconian measures?
And don't even get me started on all the begrudgers on social media whipping up outrage about people going to properties they OWN...some of the population will have to catch the virus for us to return to normal. Why on earth are we committing economic suicide waiting for tests and contact tracing methods that don't exist and may not for at least a year....

It's quite simple. There aren't enough masks for everyone.

Cork Boy 53

KiKi III wrote: »

Hardware and gardening shops are going to be open on Tuesday. Legally they were allowed to open this weekend but the government asked them to stay closed to avoid a bank holiday spike.

It was reported in the Indo.

Sure if it`s in the Indo it must be gospel.:rolleyes: Any DIY/hardware/garden shops that have been closed for the last 2 weeks will stay closed until at least 5th May. I have been told this by several people who work in them.

CruelSummer

KiKi III wrote: »

Now there’s an opinion that hasn’t been expressed on this thread so far.

You say “We are not Italy. We are not Wuhan.”

Has it occurred to you that that’s precisely because of the restrictions we have in place?

Of course it is, and the government&health services have done a great job. But those cities are taking the draconian measures because of the high number of cases and deaths. You need an exit strategy or the measures taken will cause more damage than the virus itself. I feel the government have gone quite heavy with the new Garda powers, extra restrictions, etc., despite their stated R0 value now being close to 1. And quite a low number of deaths relative to cases, that is assuming the figures provided are accurate.

sterz

CruelSummer wrote: »

I didn’t state ‘going to DIY shops as I please’ - I said trading should be allowed with similar limitations to supermarkets. What exactly is wrong with that?
I haven’t left my home area since the start of locking so won’t be travelling around the country either, but I don’t approve of the behaviour of ‘locals’ towards people going to homes they own to check on them, seems draconian, narrow minded and unwanted behaviour.
I know a lot of people working on the front line, they are not under an enormous amount of pressure and are getting concerned people with other conditions e.g. cancer will be missed. I also know some medical workers that had the virus and are now recovered but not back at work. How many more people are out there in this situation, we need to get the country moving again. Most business owners say the longer the restrictions last, the worse it will be.

You conveniently seem to know a hell of a lot of people.

[Deleted User]

alwald wrote: »

Domestic travel and holidaying are the last pieces of restrictions to be lifted. it is hard to implement the social distancing measures in them.

I don’t think that you can restrict that. As soon as the 2km is eliminated along with the concept of any movement having to be for essential purposes only, people will be able to head to the beaches and countryside.

Pubs will remain shut, I have no doubt, but restrictions of movement of the population in general I don’t see lasting into June

Phoebas

KiKi III wrote: »

It was reported in the Indo.

Yep. Garden centres and hardware stores.
Makes sense I suppose - give people the tools to do stuff in their own homes and they're more likely to stay in for the next 3 weeks.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.independent.ie/irish-news/bank-holiday-weekend-confusion-as-new-laws-allow-garden-centres-and-hardware-shops-to-reopen-39116286.html

CruelSummer

alwald wrote: »

You should seriously document yourself on this virus to answer your own questions.
Ask yourself this, why should our medical staff put their lives in danger, as well as their families, just so that you can go to a DIY shop and travel around the country as you please? They can also be selfish and give up their duties altogether.

I didn’t state ‘going to DIY shops as I please’ - I said trading should be allowed with similar limitations to supermarkets. What exactly is wrong with that?
I haven’t left my home area since the start of locking so won’t be travelling around the country either, but I don’t approve of the behaviour of ‘locals’ towards people going to homes they own to check on them, seems draconian, narrow minded and unwanted behaviour.
I know a lot of people working on the front line, they are not under an enormous amount of pressure and are getting concerned people with other conditions e.g. cancer will be missed. I also know some medical workers that had the virus and are now recovered but not back at work. How many more people are out there in this situation, we need to get the country moving again. Most business owners say the longer the restrictions last, the worse it will be.

KiKi III

Phoebas wrote: »

There will come a time in this crisis where restrictions are eased (like hardware shops opening and people being allowed to travel around the country) and this will result in additional people ending up in hospital.

The only question is the timing of it. Now is too early imo but it's only a matter of weeks.

Hardware and gardening shops are going to be open on Tuesday. Legally they were allowed to open this weekend but the government asked them to stay closed to avoid a bank holiday spike.

It was reported in the Indo.

Phoebas

alwald wrote: »

Ask yourself this, why should our medical staff put their lives in danger, as well as their families, just so that you can go to a DIY shop and travel around the country as you please?

There will come a time in this crisis where restrictions are eased (like hardware shops opening and people being allowed to travel around the country) and this will result in additional people ending up in hospital.

The only question is the timing of it. Now is too early imo but it's only a matter of weeks.

Plumbthedepths

/\/ollog wrote: »

It was linked in the main covid thread yesterday from Twitter, it was only 51% or something then though.

The test for recovery in SK is 2 negative test results within 48 hours, so they're likely just false negatives being sent home.

My personal biased explanation for the "reactivation" is faulty testing kits from China.

Thanks for the reply.

alwald

Deleted User wrote: »

Your point is not without merit, but do you believe that we stay in lockdown until we get a vaccine? We can’t do that, and the government won’t try.

So, yes, we will get to a point when we go about our lives (with the continued restrictions on mass gatherings like venues etc, as has been talked about on this thread), and rely on medic staff to deal with ICU cases as they arise.

I don’t see us getting beyond June without moving into that phase of semi normality (which will include domestic travel and holidaying)

No country can stay in this lockdown until we get a vaccine but few things need to happen first before easing the restrictions bit by bit. Let's be honest, Ireland is not near this point yet hence the straight 3 weeks announced yesterday.

Domestic travel and holidaying are the last pieces of restrictions to be lifted. it is hard to implement the social distancing measures in them.

KiKi III

CruelSummer wrote: »

I have started to become firmly of the belief, the 'cure' cannot be worse than the disease. I did not get any reassurance from government yesterday. Something isn't adding up, if Ireland's deaths and cases are actually as being declared, why on earth impose this draconian lockdown for another 3 weeks? WE are not Italy, we are not Madrid, we are not Wuhan.
What is to be achieved by such a long extension, can't even get DIY equipment to keep people busy at home. What is the long term goal? Our economy has to start functioning again, our ICU's and hospital's are not under a lot of pressure. Why can't we just get everyone to wear masks, impose social distancing rules, and start to gradually relax these draconian measures?
And don't even get me started on all the begrudgers on social media whipping up outrage about people going to properties they OWN...some of the population will have to catch the virus for us to return to normal. Why on earth are we committing economic suicide waiting for tests and contact tracing methods that don't exist and may not for at least a year....

Now there’s an opinion that hasn’t been expressed on this thread so far.

You say “We are not Italy. We are not Wuhan.”

Has it occurred to you that that’s precisely because of the restrictions we have in place?

Cork Boy 53

OMM 0000 wrote: »

Btw there are tons of masks available in Asia.

I see boxes of them everywhere now.

If the reports of a second wave of the virus in eastern Asia are reliable they may soon all be needed there.