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Relaxation of restrictions

Red Alert

Simon Harris curiously made a comment that there was a limit to how long people could put up with extreme level of restrictions as we currently have. Already we’re seeing in Italy that people are starting to get restless. So two big questions:

1) on Easter Sunday, do you think there will be further restrictions, no change with just an extension or some relaxation?

2) what will be the first thing rolled back?

My own guess would be: extension for at least 1 week. Then to allow some businesses like DIY shops to reopen, perhaps allow gatherings of 2/3 people, maybe a token increase on 2km.

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ITman88

Jurgen Klopp wrote: »

Australia is already planning to try and infect the young and healthy at a steady pace in order to boost immunity

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8196229/Coronavirus-plan-expose-young-healthy-Australians-boost-immunity.html

48 deaths in Australia in a month???

Jurgen Klopp

Australia who is rapidly seeing rates fall after their measures, are already planning to try and infect the young and healthy at a steady pace in order to boost immunity

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8196229/Coronavirus-plan-expose-young-healthy-Australians-boost-immunity.html

Pete_Cavan

Nermal wrote: »

There's only one: managed infection of the majority of the population.

Maintaining an R0 below 1 will just be too costly. Spend that money building our capability to treat. Try to undo the fear and panic we have engendered.

We aren't going to have a vaccine for at least a year so herd immunity is the only real solution. As more people gain immunity, the virus will run out of hosts. The fact remains that for an overwhelming majority of people, catching it won't create much of a problem and people will accept a week or two off work is a given at some stage. Social distancing, increased wfh, no large events, etc. will be need to control the spread.

High risk people need to adopt a lifestyle that ensures that they avoid the virus or else take their chances. Improved treatments, isolating those infected, greater hospital capacity and more experience in dealing with it will keep more people alive. These along with growing immunity and Darwinism will lower death rates over time.

One thing that is for sure is that the virus will still exist even after 6 months of lockdown so we are going to have to address reality sooner or later.

lainey_d_123

Tell me how wrote: »

What?

If anything, I would have thought that those struggling to stay at home with access to so much entertainment and communication resources is a strong indication of being privileged to ordinarily have freedom to do things which some people on this planet can only dream about.

This is an indication of privilege.

You think someone living in a tiny flat in a tower block, in severe distress, with OCD or severe depression gives a flying f**k about having the internet at home? If they're feeling up to using it at all, they're probably googling about the virus and making themselves feel even worse.

If you're well enough and comfortable enough to be able to focus on watching a Netflix series or baking bread, you should realise that not everyone is in the same boat. You're looking at this from your own perspective, of having the comfort and the luxuries to just enjoy a bit of downtime.

I don't know why so many people keep insisting that those who are suffering are 'snowflakes' or spoiled, when the reality is the complete opposite. Those who are suffering are the most likely to have mental and physical health problems, be living in poverty, in inadequate cramped housing with no outside space, or with abusive partners or family.

never_mind

Tell me how wrote: »

Are your concerns about public health taking in to account up to 30% day on day transmission of Covid-19 and the subsequent 3% mortality rate?

Privileged is having a spare laptop at home to work from home; having high speed broadband; having a spare office or room to work from; living somewhere where it’s safe to run or walk in a 2k zone; it’s being concerned about your job when you’ve no savings. Yes we all want people to survive but we also need to make sure we ourselves survive this and beyond.

Nermal

Charles Babbage wrote: »

The R0 can be also be reduced if people can be tested and isolated.

Realistically, is testing and contact tracing (i.e. suppression) compatible with say, packed public transport? Nightclubs, pubs, crowded restaurants? A GAA crowd? A cinema, a concert? A building site?

Are we going to rule all of that stuff out for 18 months? No-one is publically articulating so - I don't think any politician would dare.

Trying to do this, and failing, will be a utter disaster. In six months, we will end up with a destroyed economy and a demoralised populace - with still a year, minimum, until the goal is reached.

housemouse

Cyrus wrote: »

I disagree

People are aghast at the number of people dying everyday when the reality is a similar number die every day, it’s the incremental deaths caused by the virus that we should be concerned with and what’s relevant

The poster you are replying to, Terrydel, has an objection to anyone mentioning numbers which undermine his point of view. He will accuse you of reducing human life to "cells on a spreadsheet".

Loafing Oaf

Charles Babbage wrote: »

The R0 can be also be reduced if people can be tested and isolated. I think testing will improve before there is a vaccine and the economics of testing will be more favourable than the alternatives.

Ideally we would have a rapid turnaround test available before we started lifting restrictions but AFAIK they're not that close...

Charles Babbage

Nermal wrote: »

There's only one: managed infection of the majority of the population.

Maintaining an R0 below 1 will just be too costly. Spend that money building our capability to treat. Try to undo the fear and panic we have engendered.

The R0 can be also be reduced if people can be tested and isolated. I think testing will improve before there is a vaccine and the economics of testing will be more favourable than the alternatives.

Nermal

Aidric wrote: »

What are the credible alternatives?

There's only one: managed infection of the majority of the population.

Maintaining an R0 below 1 will just be too costly. Spend that money building our capability to treat. Try to undo the fear and panic we have engendered.

housemouse

terrydel wrote: »

You've added nothing...

16 people thanked me for my post, which was full of facts. All you did was provide the predictable abuse which comes from people who are emotionally unable to deal with differing points of view. Bye bye.

salmocab

Logan Roy wrote: »

We'll be told when they figure it out :pac:

I’d say your right here, there’s no template so it is been made up as it goes along based on information and stats available. Everyone here has an opinion on what will/should happen but they aren’t worth anything as nobody really knows what’s been taken into account. Personally I think two more weeks of the current levels followed by slowly rowing back if it’s felt that it’s peaked. I acknowledge though that my opinion on what will happen is as useless as pretty much everyone else’s.

Logan Roy

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

If you live in a rural location close to your family, still travel to work (essential work) it's easy to call for restrictions to remain in place. The proceeding applies to my situation, but I think people need to be told an exit strategy and also how many of the infected have recovered. It is ridiculous that the first person to test positive in February is still counted in April.

We'll be told when they figure it out :pac:

Plumbthedepths

User142 wrote: »

Nothing screams privileged more than thinking these guidelines aren't too hard.

If you live in a rural location close to your family, still travel to work (essential work) it's easy to call for restrictions to remain in place. The proceeding applies to my situation, but I think people need to be told an exit strategy and also how many of the infected have recovered. It is ridiculous that the first person to test positive in February is still counted in April.

Tell me how

Aidric wrote: »

Try anyway. I've outlined my concerns from a public health perspective. What are your alternatives to alleviate those concerns?

Are your concerns about public health taking in to account up to 30% day on day transmission of Covid-19 and the subsequent 3% mortality rate?

Tell me how

User142 wrote: »

Nothing screams privileged more than thinking these guidelines aren't too hard.

What?

If anything, I would have thought that those struggling to stay at home with access to so much entertainment and communication resources is a strong indication of being privileged to ordinarily have freedom to do things which some people on this planet can only dream about.

Aidric

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

If you can't see that a lockdown until a vaccine is found is not possible I don't think you would accept any alternative I or others would suggest as credible.

Try anyway. I've outlined my concerns from a public health perspective. What are your alternatives to alleviate those concerns?

User142

Nothing screams privileged more than thinking these guidelines aren't too hard.

KrustyUCC

Pretzill wrote: »

I am only browsing these mega threads lately - but I've noticed a trend after the figures for the day come out so do the "I wonder when restrictions will be lifted--people won't put up with it much longer--the economy can't take it" comments.

We are a small country, things could get a lot worse, a lot more quickly - I am amazed we are keeping the health service going with this pandemic at the moment and I don't say that lightly after 210 deaths - But it could get so much worse and for a country this size we could be facing horrendous fatalities if we don't abide by what are a set of not too hard restrictions.

Later on, the trumpettes will come to whine about how badly things are going on the other side of the Atlantic - but we're here and for the moment we need to see the bigger picture.

The further this goes on the more damaging these 'set of not too hard restrictions' will become

They might be easy for you but they are not for a hell of a lot of people

Not seeing family, friends, those in relationships not being able to see each other

There is good public support for the measures overall at the moment but of course people want the restrictions gone asap

It's a tough balancing act

Up to Easter Sunday is 39 days of restrictions since Leo's speech

Add two more weeks and that will be 54 days with no finishing line in sight

Plumbthedepths

Aidric wrote: »

What are the credible alternatives?

If you can't see that a lockdown until a vaccine is found is not possible I don't think you would accept any alternative I or others would suggest as credible.

terrydel

Idbatterim wrote: »

E350 a week. but if they have worked, that makes them stand out from tens of thousands of others here, who cream off way more than E350 a week from the state and have never lifted a finger in their life!

All of this nonsense about reversing pension age to 65 etc can be knocked on the head, they can knock the annual 300,000,000 welfare bonus on the head too :rolleyes:

Seriously, how do you get away with these constant bigoted remarks you make? Are you shagging a mod or something? It's almost impressive.

TheCitizen

iamwhoiam wrote: »

I agree , but a good idea would be to show how it’s helping . Show the public how hospitals are coping only because we stayed indoors . Show how bad things could be if we didn’t etc
They need to get the public onside

They'd be accused of promoting "panic and fear" by the usual gobshítes around here for example if they did that.

I think the vast majority of the public are onside and only utter idiots will cause any bother (as opposed to the snowflakers and bellyachers on this thread) while we collectively face this.

Big weekend coming up, bank holiday weekend, hopefully we'll collectively show a bit of discipline and a bit of strength and adhere to what is asked of us.

Aidric

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

You cannot lockdown a population untill a vaccine is found its amazing that actually has to be said. You will see the alternatives in the coming weeks.

What are the credible alternatives?

Logan Roy

Pretzill wrote: »

I am only browsing these mega threads lately - but I've noticed a trend after the figures for the day come out so do the "I wonder when restrictions will be lifted--people won't put up with it much longer--the economy can't take it" comments.

We are a small country, things could get a lot worse, a lot more quickly - I am amazed we are keeping the health service going with this pandemic at the moment and I don't say that lightly after 210 deaths - But it could get so much worse and for a country this size we could be facing horrendous fatalities if we don't abide by what are a set of not too hard restrictions.

Later on, the trumpettes will come to whine about how badly things are going on the other side of the Atlantic - but we're here and for the moment we need to see the bigger picture.

Most people aren't concerned about "how hard" the restrictions are. The fear is long term damage they will do to the economy/jobs/people's mental health etc. Yeah it's fairly f**king ****e not being able to do the things we usually enjoy doing and seeing our families but those inconveniences will pass. The question is what will be waiting for us on the other side?

terrydel

TheCitizen wrote: »

Reasoned and researched he says:pac:

This is what you said in post 1924; "The lockdown policy is driven by fear and panic.".

Do you think politicians across Europe and elsewhere lockdown or impose restrictions on their countries economies due to "fear and panic"? Do you think they arrive at these difficult decisions easily? They have taken advice from the experts and have acted on that.

Your post is anything but reasoned and researched, to repeat; it's utter utter bollocks.

That's giving it undue credit

Pretzill

I am only browsing these mega threads lately - but I've noticed a trend after the figures for the day come out so do the "I wonder when restrictions will be lifted--people won't put up with it much longer--the economy can't take it" comments.

We are a small country, things could get a lot worse, a lot more quickly - I am amazed we are keeping the health service going with this pandemic at the moment and I don't say that lightly after 210 deaths - But it could get so much worse and for a country this size we could be facing horrendous fatalities if we don't abide by what are a set of not too hard restrictions.

Later on, the trumpettes will come to whine about how badly things are going on the other side of the Atlantic - but we're here and for the moment we need to see the bigger picture.

VonLuck

robinph wrote: »

Because the argument was made that social distancing isn't possible on construction sites, so I gave a potential way round that.

Sorry, I missed the original context of your post.

robinph wrote: »

If other people would normally be making one off visits to a site currently, then they just need to figure out a new way of working. Either things are done remotely, or not done until the site is finished, or one of their profession stays on site and feeds back details to others off site about things that need doing. Yes it's complicated, yes it's completely different to how things operate now.

Very difficult to implement.

You really can't wait until the end as things get covered up every day and impossible to inspect later.

Remote inspections could easily miss something important. And I'm pretty sure the builder operating the camera isn't going to direct you to potential issues!

Someone operating on site full time may be possible, but may only be practical for large sites. Also you would have to think about who's going to foot the bill in the end.

robinph wrote: »

But if the alternatives otherwise are nothing gets built for another 2 years, or all construction workers get sick, then what other solutions would you have?

If anything is to happen, in any industry and business, for the next couple of years then things need to be re-thought as to how it happens under the new way of life... or everyone just sits on their backside watching netflix for two years.

Well I made a point earlier where I believe that government measures will be relaxed in the next month and some people will go back to work, construction workers included. On site measures will be mandatory e.g. taking temperatures, social distancing etc. and perhaps random visits by a government inspector to ensure the measures are implemented. Once cases begin to rise again, sites will close for a period, then reopen again.

I don't see how else both construction can continue somewhat and that the virus is kept under control.

Plumbthedepths

titan18 wrote: »

Start fining people like other countries imo. If people don't want to cooperate, punish them imo

The French police have fined almost 500,000. You would have thought the message would have got through after the first few thousand. Guess people feel 'the reward is worth the risk'.

iamwhoiam

TheCitizen wrote: »

The public will continue to co operate. Only an idiot wouldn't.

I agree , but a good idea would be to show how it’s helping . Show the public how hospitals are coping only because we stayed indoors . Show how bad things could be if we didn’t etc
They need to get the public onside

terrydel

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

You really shouldn't waste your time, all that poster wants is an echo chamber of his own views.

Considering you say that to everyone who has an alternative view to you, the only echo here is eminating from your irony free zone