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Relaxation of restrictions

Red Alert

Simon Harris curiously made a comment that there was a limit to how long people could put up with extreme level of restrictions as we currently have. Already we’re seeing in Italy that people are starting to get restless. So two big questions:

1) on Easter Sunday, do you think there will be further restrictions, no change with just an extension or some relaxation?

2) what will be the first thing rolled back?

My own guess would be: extension for at least 1 week. Then to allow some businesses like DIY shops to reopen, perhaps allow gatherings of 2/3 people, maybe a token increase on 2km.

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StringerBell

I would say we can expect it to be extended to the 19th at least, with no real increase in restrictions but the signing into legislation the powers to fine people for breaking the restrictions etc. People are now getting restless and fed up of the restrictions already and will start to break them a little more so it is just the tightening of that aspect I see coming for the moment.

Dodge

International comparisons aren’t really like for like either. Every culture has its own idiosyncrasies

What’s good for Austria may not be good for Spain and what’s good for Portugal may not be good for Ireland etc etc

Turkey was the last country to impose restrictions and they’re ramping up to near full lockdown now

nj27

Sweet.Science wrote: »

Austria are coming out the far side of this it seems

How long after Austria did we lockdown ?

You would assume all going thats the timeframe we have left before we start easing restrictions

Austria went into lockdown on the 16th of March, so they were a bit ahead of the game and likely to relax measures before countries who imposed it later. I'd also assume the earlier the lockdown the more effective it is as they spent less time in the more or less rampant spreading period.

Sweet.Science

Austria are coming out the far side of this it seems

How long after Austria did we lockdown ?

You would assume all going thats the timeframe we have left before we start easing restrictions

KrustyUCC

Then you get idiots like this which make things harder for the majority who are following the restrictions

Gardaí stopped a car in Fermoy this morning, which had travelled from Meath 'for the spin and to visit.'

Gardaí are reminding the public to 'please remember the 2km radius and only essential travel.'

MOH

normanoffside wrote: »

It’s not just about money or economy.
Have you ever considered people’s mental health/suicide rates/quality of life?
For most people going to work helps them feel good.

Just as an example, calls to childline are up 25% on normal.
Dentist are not working.
Non Covid operations cancelled. People on the waiting lists years and now back to square one.

You have to assess deaths and misery caused by having a lockdown when assessing if it’s worth it.

This. I've nothing against the current lockdown. I'm not enjoying it, but if it goes on for a few more weeks to relieve pressure on critical care places, fine. Add an extra week or two to just try to relieve the strain on front line health workers. But the notion of extending it for months, or until a vaccine is developed, isn't going to work. Off the top of my head:

- Suicide prevention charities recording greatly increased call numbers, while losing a lot of funding which mainly comes from now cancelled fund raising activities
- Domestic violence support lines recording up to 50% increase in calls (Europe-wide, may be overstated for Ireland)
- Long term staying mainly indoors, there's going to be a general deterioration in people's health, which ironically is going to push more people into the high risk category
- Potentially fatal ailments which are treatable if detected early are going to be missed. There's already cases of people not going in immediately for heart attacks and strokes.

Thankfully, it's not my job, but at some point factors like these have to be taken into consideration and weighed against the benefits of a continued lockdown. Dismissing them as fearmongering is just childish.

KrustyUCC

People for the most part get the need for restrictions

According to the government they have made a difference

Since Leo's speech on March 12th they have added further and further restrictions

If people followed advice from March 12th social interactions would be limited outside of work

Taking to the 19th of April the existing restrictions will 5 weeks 4 days or 39 days

Add the expected minimum 2 weeks to May 3rd 7 weeks 4 days or 54 days

That's a long time not to see friends, family, relationships unless you live with them

The longer it goes on the harder it is for a lot of people

It is a tough balance to get right but people need hope and a plan for getting back to a bit of normality

TheCitizen

polesheep wrote: »

'Written'. Poor stuff.

You just wrote that line in the previous post and put quotation marks around it yourself didn’t you

0gac3yjefb5sv7

If the numbers of new cases are less than yesterday, it would be great news that we may have peaked already.

Dodge

niallo27 wrote: »

Nobody said anything about a ****en pint or going to the shops. Where did anyone say that.

So what business that are closed are you talking about then?

Because they are by some distance the two biggest sectors involved

Pretty much all industry is still working away

Also what do you think this mythical economy is if it isn’t people spending money on goods and services?

normanoffside

tobefrank321 wrote: »

Well by plateau, I mean the current total in ICU. So if there is currently for example 150 in ICU, it needs to stay at that number and then go down to a total of less than 100 in ICU. This then would enable them to lift restrictions for a month, before ICU numbers start to go back up again. And so on.

By the number they are giving every day it's fairly clear to me that more people are leaving ICU than going in.

169 have been admitted to ICU
33 Have recovered
Some others will have unfortunately died after being in ICU

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2020/0407/1128957-covid-hospital-cases/
Figures show that 169 patients have been admitted to intensive care units with the virus to date.

The latest data is that 33 people have recovered from ICU.

niallo27

Padre_Pio wrote: »

What's an acceptable death rate for your ability to have a pint and wander the shops?

Nobody said anything about a ****en pint or going to the shops. Where did anyone say that.

begbysback

rm212 wrote: »

Also have a chronic illness and I’m 24. Certainly feeling expendable from some comments on this thread... that doesn’t help my pre-existing medicated mental health issues that people supposedly care about. As you say, I reckon it’s a mask for the real motive

I really feel it for people in your situation, my preference would be to get back to some sort of normality asap, but I do see that people like yourself may have to wait until a bit longer where a vaccine or some sort of effective treatment is found. Until then I believe stuff like rent restrictions, mortgage relief, and subsidized payments should continue for the at risk groups who may have to isolate that bit longer.

tobefrank321

normanoffside wrote: »

ICU numbers have already plateaued

Well by plateau, I mean the current total in ICU. So if there is currently for example 150 in ICU, it needs to stay at that number and then go down to a total of less than 100 in ICU. This then would enable them to lift restrictions for a month, before ICU numbers start to go back up again. And so on.

polesheep

TheCitizen wrote: »

LOL, it’s hardly pedantic to point out that you put in a quote as “evidence” of hyperbole on the other side of the argument but don’t quote it properly so we can link back to the original comment. You could have just wrote it yourself and put quotation marks around it for all we know. Poor stuff.

'Written'. Poor stuff.

rm212

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I honestly don't think you care about the mental health impact. We'd also face a severe mental health if large proportions of the population were to start dropping dead as a result of not taking the measures we have. I'm technically higher risk due to a chronic illness btw, I'm 28 but sure I'm expendable.

Also work for an Irish company that expects no business for months regardless of if everyone went back to work in the morning. It's a global hit, every country is taking similar measures.

Also have a chronic illness and I’m 24. Certainly feeling expendable from some comments on this thread... that doesn’t help my pre-existing medicated mental health issues that people supposedly care about. As you say, I reckon it’s a mask for the real motive

normanoffside

tobefrank321 wrote: »

I'd say the government and HSE will only consider restrictions being lifted when ICU numbers plateau and go down significantly. Its ICU capacity they are most interested in. So we could be several months off restrictions being lifted if we follow their model.

ICU numbers have already plateaued

rm212

gmisk wrote: »

I personally think you are wrong.
I work in a large CS department there were still a large number of people working in office until they were literally forcibly closed.
Walking and cycling is just not hugely realistic for a lot of people. The majority of people in my office have long commutes.

My partner was sent home from their workplace, but they were among 10-20% of the total staff on the team that were sent home. This is a job done entirely via an online platform. They only sent home the people who were trained to work in a specific “queue” where there was nobody else in the office trained for that queue (so each person sent home was the only person who could work a specific queue). Essentially, the employees they couldn’t afford to get ill and need time off, were sent home to safety. The others stayed in until the government banned it.

Naked Lepper

polesheep wrote: »

:DNitpicker lol I meant in the sense that I have somewhere to get out into.

just messin

tobefrank321

I'd say the government and HSE will only consider restrictions being lifted when ICU numbers plateau and go down significantly. Its ICU capacity they are most interested in. So we could be several months off restrictions being lifted if we follow their model.

They need to target it better though. Vulnerable categories, healthcare workers and nursing home staff need to be somehow protected, while not impacting the rest of society. Personally I'd also favour fines for those who are showing the symptoms of covid19 but don't isolate. These people are reckless.

TheCitizen

polesheep wrote: »

Economy and money are two different things.

And if you are going to be pedantic, the word is 'because' not 'cos'.

LOL, it’s hardly pedantic to point out that you put in a quote as “evidence” of hyperbole on the other side of the argument but don’t quote it properly so we can link back to the original comment. You could have just wrote it yourself and put quotation marks around it for all we know. Poor stuff.

normanoffside

gmisk wrote: »

I think dentists are working but only in cases of emergency.

But I agree it's a balance that has to be made.

Yes but by not treating 'non-emergencies', minor issues become emergencies.
The same can be said in other areas of health care.

polesheep

Naked Lepper wrote: »

lol, fair play to u.

:DNitpicker lol I meant in the sense that I have somewhere to get out into.

TheCitizen

Idbatterim wrote: »

Taking a few hundred thousand extra jobs out , was idiocy. They could have coped with it. I’m not panicking , but I see where this no vision, is leading us. They think they are taking the easy path , this path is going to have serious consequences

How is it the easy path? Do you think they take decisions like this lightly? The vision is clear, when they get to the other side of the peak and the evidence is consistent that we’re on the other side of the peak then some restrictions will then be lifted.

A few hundred thousand “extra” jobs? Where are you coming up with these figures? Are you just making it up as you go along? I’m not seeing much vision in your negative hyperbole

Thelonious Monk

tobefrank321 wrote: »

Of course she should be allowed leave it, but she should take precautions. Apartment blocks are a prime candidate to spread cv19. If someone coughs in the hallway other people will pick it up. If they touch the lift buttons or door handles the same. Hundreds of people use apartment blocks and it only needs one infected person to infect many others.

A poster was saying what about the people living in apartments, as if they were locked down. People in apartments can still leave and go for walks etc.

gmisk

Idbatterim wrote: »

I don’t think most employers of people that can work from home would ask you to go back in. I reckon there would be a decent increase in walking and cycling to work too

I personally think you are wrong.
I work in a large CS department there were still a large number of people working in office until they were literally forcibly closed.
Walking and cycling is just not hugely realistic for a lot of people. The majority of people in my office have long commutes.

tobefrank321

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

So you're saying some people in apartments can't leave the apartments, or what?

Of course she should be allowed leave it, but she should take precautions. Apartment blocks are a prime candidate to spread cv19. If someone coughs in the hallway other people will pick it up. If they touch the lift buttons or door handles the same. Hundreds of people use apartment blocks and it only needs one infected person to infect many others.

[Deleted User]

Idbatterim wrote: »

Think of the money ? Think of the domestic violence up , mental health issues. Suicide. Fear. Some people at near breaking point , imagine being locked up with a few kids , working from home etc. as if the corona virus , is the only thing to fear!

I honestly don't think you care about the mental health impact. We'd also face a severe mental health if large proportions of the population were to start dropping dead as a result of not taking the measures we have. I'm technically higher risk due to a chronic illness btw, I'm 28 but sure I'm expendable.

Also work for an Irish company that expects no business for months regardless of if everyone went back to work in the morning. It's a global hit, every country is taking similar measures.

Naked Lepper

polesheep wrote: »

Good for her. There are many who are not so free to do as she does. I have afantastic garden but I realise that there are many who don't.

lol, fair play to u.

polesheep

TheCitizen wrote: »

I don’t know who said that cos you didn’t quote it properly did you? Most of the hyperbole on this thread is on the “won’t somebody think of the money” short sighted and short term and stupid attitude side.

Economy and money are two different things.

And if you are going to be pedantic, the word is 'because' not 'cos'.