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FG to just do nothing for the next 5 years.

satguy

It seems FG will be very happy to just sit on their hands for 5 years. Would FG voters be happy with this, as it means all those FG votes mean nothing, and do nothing.

Having been in power for 9 years, they did nothing, people have no homes, people still on trollies.

FG may have given some of their rich buddies some tax breaks.

But other than that, they did what FG do best, are their poor hands not numb by now.

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blanch152

smurgen wrote: »

The world financial markets have seen their biggest bull period ever. And as a small open economy it's a case of a rising tide lifting all boats.

Have a read of this as it highlights alot of how I feel and my worries on how we run the economy. I find the National Competitiveness Council reports good and I'd love to see the Department of Finance pay more attention to them.

https://www.rte.ie/news/2018/1219/1018003-competitiveness-threat/

I agree with a lot in that, but there is one party who promised to do the exact opposite of what is recommended by the NCC, and that is Sinn Fein. They have promised to narrow the tax base, increase uncompetitive public expenditure, increase pensions costs.

You cannot seriously talk about the NCC warnings one minute and say you support Sinn Fein the next. That is just silliness.

Suckit

blanch152 wrote: »

FG have never ever had a majority vote in this country.

Semantics.

Most votes per party.

joeguevara

blanch152 wrote: »

FG have never ever had a majority vote in this country.

I never actually new that.

blanch152

Suckit wrote: »

Semantics.

Most votes per party.

Look at your post again, it starts from the concept that Fine Gael have never retained the majority vote. Given what you wrote, it isn’t semantics to point out that the starting point of your post is completely made up.

Suckit wrote: »

Sorry, but how does that make sense?
To blame for what exactly?

FG never hold on the majority vote, with 2 exceptions, and both of those times were exceptional circumstances.
FG know that, and it is likely why they strike so many deals when they are in, which in turn leads to their majority vote dropping again. If they moved forward and looked barely like they were in for the good of the country, they would do better. Their arrogance doesn't help either.
They expect those votes to go back to FF though, that's why their knickers got so twisted this time. FF historically have majority vote until they mess up, then FG come in and look after their seats for a while.
Now there is another contender for that seat and FG can't handle it. They are trying everything that they can, unfortunately for them, they have the most useless lot calling the shots, in their entire existence.
I believe that they will live to regret not going with Coveney, for a long time to come.
Leo and his spin team are looking good right now, but it won't stay that way.
The reality is, another party were always going to come in and shake things up. It mightn't happen yet, but it's not long away, whoever that party may be.
My money is on FG being the biggest casualty.

If you want to blame someone for the state of politics and the country, blame the take-all parties. They have had a century of mistakes forgiven over and over again. Still they take.

Suckit

blanch152 wrote: »

Look at your post again, it starts from the concept that Fine Gael have never retained the majority vote. Given what you wrote, it isn’t semantics to point out that the starting point of your post is completely made up.

Made up?
If it makes you feel better I am happy to change it to majority vote per party.

What I wrote is correct otherwise.

efanton

Suckit wrote: »

Sorry, but how does that make sense?
To blame for what exactly?

FG never hold on the majority vote, with 2 exceptions, and both of those times were exceptional circumstances.
FG know that, and it is likely why they strike so many deals when they are in, which in turn leads to their majority vote dropping again. If they moved forward and looked barely like they were in for the good of the country, they would do better. Their arrogance doesn't help either.
They expect those votes to go back to FF though, that's why their knickers got so twisted this time. FF historically have majority vote until they mess up, then FG come in and look after their seats for a while.
Now there is another contender for that seat and FG can't handle it. They are trying everything that they can, unfortunately for them, they have the most useless lot calling the shots, in their entire existence.
I believe that they will live to regret not going with Coveney, for a long time to come.
Leo and his spin team are looking good right now, but it won't stay that way.
The reality is, another party were always going to come in and shake things up. It mightn't happen yet, but it's not long away, whoever that party may be.
My money is on FG being the biggest casualty.

If you want to blame someone for the state of politics and the country, blame the take-all parties. They have had a century of mistakes forgiven over and over again. Still they take.

Totally agree with almost all of what you have said there.

But I think there is another dimension that is missed and likely to change once this pandemic is over. Too many governments, including ours, have relied too much on private companies to fill the holes of government failure to act over the last two or three decades. This mad idea that a free market will somehow benefit all of mankind, where the wealth will somehow filter down to even the poorest, and that companies and businesses will act in a socially responsible way is and has been a terrible way for any government to base policies on.

There is no such thing as a free market, every stock exchange, banking system, and debt management system in the world is highly regulated for very good reason. Unregulated greed would utterly destroy the social fabric of most countries and no doubt increases the rate of poverty and risk of wars.

After this crisis almost every country in the world will have racked up massive debt. The smart ones will avoid any form of austerity at all costs if possible those that stick to their existing dogma are likely to make a bad situation even worse.

Does that mean we get rid of capitalism and replace it with socialism, absolutely not.
Competition in the markets is a good thing, it drives new technologies, innovation, job creation and to a large degree an increased standard of living.
What it does mean though that governments are going to have to take a lot more responsibility and have a far more hands on approach. Had Simon Harris asked the HSE to put in the systems and processes that have been put in in a matter of weeks two years ago everyone including the government would have said it was impossible and unworkable. Yet it was not impossible and to be fair to the government these measures by and large appear to be working.

No longer will it be accepted by the electorate that the market will fill or supply any niche left unattended by government. FG and FF have left the developers to provide for housing in this country for the last two decades and what has that achieved. Not a lot apart from a small number of property developers becoming extremely rich and them building the very homes that most people cannot afford to buy. Instead of building the small starter homes as was the trend in the 60's and 70's in the UK and other bigger and growing economies they still insist on building the traditional 3 bed semi with gardens, drive or garage not because that is what is needed but that is what returns the higher profit margin. This will continue unless a government intervenes in some way.

After the first world war the USA did something truly remarkable. They assumed they were starting with a clean sheet. Austerity was not an option in the traditional sense so instead they spent serious amounts of money kick starting an infrastructure boom the likes the world had never seen. New roads, dams, housing, and public infrastructure of any kind was invested in and although it created huge debt it also created a massive amount of jobs, a huge industrial base and kick started the USA into becoming a world economic superpower. Meanwhile the UK, France and other European countries stuck to the same old formula's and the economies and empires they once had crumbled to dust.

My personal biggest fear is that whatever government is formed they will try applying the same old formula's to a totally new reality, and it will inevitably go horribly wrong.
I truly cannot see FG being able to make that jump of ditching old formulas and dogma's that have almost become a religious mantra to them. I worry that FF have no plan or vision of what they would like to achieve, simply being in government appears to be their only ambition, but once there they seem to tackle problems with a scatter gun approach never actually fixing anything but spending huge amounts of money while they are at it.

If I was in FG HQ at the moment I would be seriously talking about a unity government.
If they go ahead with this coalition I cannot see either FF or FG benefiting, and worse I cant see the country benefiting.
Things are starting to go wrong for the FG dream already. 15,000 test a day promised by the health minister, yet more than a week later only 1500 tests being performed. Offering €210 a week as compensation for people losing their jobs when it was obvious this amount was no where near sufficient.
Yet the really difficult and expensive decisions are ahead. Do they really want to self implode as FF did after the banking crisis? All it will take is one more serious mistake.

IngazZagni

Suckit wrote: »

Made up?
If it makes you feel better I am happy to change it to majority vote per party.

What I wrote is correct otherwise.

On this point. How often has a political party in Government increased there vote whilst in government? I’d bet it’s quite rare.

I know across the Irish Sea the Tories managed it recently quite emphatically.

Suckit

IngazZagni wrote: »

On this point. How often has a political party in Government increased there vote whilst in government? I’d bet it’s quite rare.

I know across the Irish Sea the Tories managed it recently quite emphatically.

I cannot comment on countries in general, not even sure why I would be expected to.
In Ireland however, it wouldn't be common, but it doesn't meant that they have dropped so much that they have lost their majority seats.
FF have done it at least 6 times.
FG are only employed by the people to clean up after a mess, and both the people and FG have seemed okay with that for years.
Now though, the people might turn to a different party, as FG aren't as effective at cleaning up as they used to be.

Suckit

efanton wrote: »

After the first world war the USA did something truly remarkable. They assumed they were starting with a clean sheet. Austerity was not an option in the traditional sense so instead they spent serious amounts of money kick starting a infrastructure boom the likes the world had never seen. New roads, dams, housing, and public infrastructure of any kind was invested in and although it created huge debt it also created a massive amount of jobs, a huge industrial base and kick started the USA into becoming a world economic superpower. Meanwhile the UK and France and other European countries stuck to the same old formula's and the economies and empires they once had crumbled to dust.

I didn't want to quote your entire post as it was long (and good).

I would love to see an injection into the infrastructure in Ireland done correctly.

FG need to look at the way they are steadfast in their old ways of looking at and doing things. No doubt it led to their ridiculous online presence.

Mortelaro

smurgen wrote: »

I'm getting a good laugh off this. The FG fanboys questioning my educational background while a completely inept, disaster after disaster health minister who's also a college dropout,no education in the area he works in and zero experience gets their support couldn't make this stuff up.

But your posting history shows no evidence of your 'masters' in economics
All you ever post links wise are googled news articles usually days old and with one thing in common,Fine Gael hate
The vast majority of your posts are like the one above,vacuous,ill informed rants
The one actual report I saw you linking,you never discussed in any detail because it seems in my view,whoever suggested you post it hadn't filled you in on its contents properly, bar a crib line or two,probably because you wouldn't understand

Bass Reeves

It interesting to see some lads post. For any good actions regarding Covid 19 the government is following health officials advice, for any problems the governments in particular FG are at fault.

The stats tell us the truth the government, health officials and the HSE are doing an amazing job. Yesterday our casualty rate was 2.5% of the UK figures and our total rate is about 3% of the UK figures. As well the UK may be hiding there true figures. We have about 7.5% population compared to the UK. The UK figures are climbing at nearly 25%/day constantly, the Irish figures seesaw a bit.

Have they made mistakes yes but it is hard to keep an eye on everything when you have 20 balls in the air. As well the US is now playing hard ball, France had planes waiting to load face masks 300K of them and the Americans virtually hijacked them with a higher bid and the masks were virtually on the f@@king planes. So this is what we are up against.

FrancieBrady

Bass Reeves wrote: »

It interesting to see some lads post. For any good actions regarding Covid 19 the government is following health officials advice, for any problems the governments in particular FG are at fault.

The stats tell us the truth the government, health officials and the HSE are doing an amazing job. Yesterday our casualty rate was 2.5% of the UK figures and our total rate is about 3% of the UK figures. As well the UK may be hiding there true figures. We have about 7.5% population compared to the UK. The UK figures are climbing at nearly 25%/day constantly, the Irish figures seesaw a bit.

Have they made mistakes yes but it is hard to keep an eye on everything when you have 20 balls in the air. As well the US is now playing hard ball, France had planes waiting to load face masks 300K of them and the Americans virtually hijacked them with a higher bid and the masks were virtually on the f@@king planes. So this is what we are up against.

What are the comparisons/competition about?

This can be scrutinised and commented on without the need to compare. If somebody dies needlessly here it is of no importance to them or their families how they might have fared elsewhere.

Mortelaro

FrancieBrady wrote: »

What are the comparisons/competition about?

This can be scrutinised and commented on without the need to compare. If somebody dies needlessly here it is of no importance to them or their families how they might have fared elsewhere.

You should start a thread in forum requests so for a 'petulant fault finding in the middle of a public health crisis forum''
You'd have less than the current 4 or 5 reading it but hey does that matter
Treat it as an opportunity for a first thread there
Maybe title the thread 'Not enough people petulantly complaining in the middle of a health crisis '

FrancieBrady

Mortelaro wrote: »

You should start a thread in forum requests so for a 'petulant fault finding in the middle of a public health crisis forum''
You'd have less than the current 4 or 5 reading it but hey does that matter
Treat it as an opportunity for a first thread there
Maybe title the thread 'Not enough people petulantly complaining in the middle of a health crisis '

You ok?

Wrong side of the bed? Not enough coffee? Too much vino last night?

Take another run at that and try and make some sense? Because ****s knows what you are on about.

Mortelaro

FrancieBrady wrote: »

You ok?

Wrong side of the bed? Not enough coffee? Too much vino last night?

Take another run at that and try and make some sense? Because ****s knows what you are on about.

Mirror mirror on the wall;)

I'm saying you are petulantly complaining

McMurphy

Bass Reeves wrote: »

It interesting to see some lads post. For any good actions regarding Covid 19 the government is following health officials advice, for any problems the governments in particular FG are at fault.

The stats tell us the truth the government, health officials and the HSE are doing an amazing job. Yesterday our casualty rate was 2.5% of the UK figures and our total rate is about 3% of the UK figures. As well the UK may be hiding there true figures. We have about 7.5% population compared to the UK. The UK figures are climbing at nearly 25%/day constantly, the Irish figures seesaw a bit.

Have they made mistakes yes but it is hard to keep an eye on everything when you have 20 balls in the air. As well the US is now playing hard ball, France had planes waiting to load face masks 300K of them and the Americans virtually hijacked them with a higher bid and the masks were virtually on the f@@king planes. So this is what we are up against.

Don't be crowing too loudly about stats just yet, because no matter how much some cheerleaders on here try and dismiss it, or hand wave it away - it's been acknowledged at this stage by both govt and health officials that we are short on testing equipment, and there's thousands still waiting on their test results, and/or being tested to begin with.

I fear that we're being underestimated by the figures, but hope we're not. my suspicion is that there are thousands more walking around undetected.

Bass Reeves

FrancieBrady wrote: »

What are the comparisons/competition about?

This can be scrutinised and commented on without the need to compare. If somebody dies needlessly here it is of no importance to them or their families how they might have fared elsewhere.

Because the stats tell us that those that are leading us through this crisis are doing an a good job to the best of there ability. Death is inevitable, there are two definates in this life death and taxes. Yes all deaths are important to those that are personally involved but for some it a blame game that is used to play on people emotions. But stats do not lie those that are leading us through this, government, health officials and HSE staff are doing an amazing job.

But I point out again for any good actions regarding Covid 19 the government is following health officials advice, for any problems the governments in particular FG are at fault.

Mortelaro

McMurphy wrote: »

I fear that we're being underestimated by the figures, but hope we're not. my suspicion is that there are thousands more walking around undetected.

We are not under estimating icu admittances or deaths which are the 2 most indisputable measures versus other countries approaches especially our nearest neighbours

We nervously await to what extent an inevitable surge has been made less worse

Bass Reeves

McMurphy wrote: »

Don't be crowing too loudly about stats just yet, because no matter how much some cheerleaders on here try and dismiss it, or hand wave it away - it's been acknowledged at this stage by both govt and health officials that we are short on testing equipment, and there's thousands still waiting on their test results, and/or being tested to begin with.

I fear that we're being underestimated by the figures, but hope we're not. my suspicion is that there are thousands more walking around undetected.

I agree that yes we are struggling with access to to testing equipment and PPE, I pointed out in my post the challenges which those leading us are up against. I pointed out what happened to the Frances's PPE. I am not crowing but pointing what is being done right. Yes there are many going around undetected but we have got out contact ratio down to an average of below 3 and there is plans to up testing as we try to get done within the country.

FrancieBrady

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Because the stats tell us that those that are leading us through this crisis are doing an a good job to the best of there ability.

That has been acknowledged by me anyhow.
But they are not infallible and both FG and the HSE have made massive ****-ups prior to this.
The protection racket going on here is mainly party political.

There will be stats available on what they got wrong as well as on what they got right.

Bass Reeves

FrancieBrady wrote: »

That has been acknowledged by me anyhow.
But they are not infallible and both FG and the HSE have made massive ****-ups prior to this.
The protection racket going on here is mainly party political.

There will be stats available on what they got wrong as well as on what they got right.

Rubbish

FrancieBrady

Bass Reeves wrote: »

Rubbish

What is rubbish about it?

You are trying to shut down/censor discussion as if criticising the government on a politics forum was treasonous.

Or have you some other motive for answering 'rubbish'?

Snow Garden

joeguevara wrote: »

I never actually new that.

There have been very very few majority governments. I would guess 3 at most. All FF.

McMurphy

Bass Reeves wrote: »

I agree that yes we are struggling with access to to testing equipment and PPE, I pointed out in my post the challenges which those leading us are up against. I pointed out what happened to the Frances's PPE. I am not crowing but pointing what is being done right. Yes there are many going around undetected but we have got out contact ratio down to an average of below 3 and there is plans to up testing as we try to get done within the country.

Mortelaro wrote: »

We are not under estimating icu admittances or deaths which are the 2 most indisputable measures versus other countries approaches especially our nearest neighbours

We nervously await to what extent an inevitable surge has been made less worse

Oh yeah I get that, and to be perfectly clear I'm not having a go at govt or those in health, my post is what it is, I honestly do fear that our figure's are grossly misrepresented at this stage, I suspect that there's thousands walking around undetected and spreading it, but I'm also wondering if there's many people dying of it, who had not been detected, and then the death not being officially recorded as covid 19 related?

I am not completely au fait with how these things work, but I assume the above is a very possible scenario.

Jinglejangle69

FrancieBrady wrote: »

That has been acknowledged by me anyhow.
But they are not infallible and both FG and the HSE have made massive ****-ups prior to this.
The protection racket going on here is mainly party political.

There will be stats available on what they got wrong as well as on what they got right.

I thought you said FG are only following advice so can't be given any credit???

Some flip flopping for the 150th time from yourself to suit your agenda.

Mortelaro

FrancieBrady wrote: »

What is rubbish about it?

lots
Not least the fact you're going on as if it isnt like walking out of the sea saying you aren't wet

You are trying to shut down/censor discussion as if criticising the government on a politics forum was treasonous.

Rubbish

FrancieBrady

Mortelaro wrote: »

lots

Are you gonna tell us what is rubbish about it?

Mortelaro

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Are you gonna tell us what is rubbish about it?

I did

markodaly

smurgen wrote: »

The world financial markets have seen their biggest bull period ever. And as a small open economy it's a case of a rising tide lifting all boats.

So why is Ireland the top of the class when it comes to economic growth and reducing unemployment.

Sure, if a rising tide lifted all boats, why were places like Greece and Italy (pre-Covid19) struggling economically? Germany was on the cusp of a recession before the virus hit.

Rising tide lifts all boats, yet Irelands boat seemed be have been lifted way above anyone else in the EU.....
Nothing at all to do with good government policy. Pure luck probably.

FrancieBrady

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

I thought you said FG are only following advice so can't be given any credit???

Some flip flopping for the 150th time from yourself to suit your agenda.

I'm one of those who is livid that they are shutting down government and the role of the opposition to have oversight.

As the health officials themselves have said...they give the advice and the government decides what to act on, in that advice.

That means there has to be oversight and that also means there is potential for lapses, mistakes and ****-ups.