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Relaxation of restrictions

Red Alert

Simon Harris curiously made a comment that there was a limit to how long people could put up with extreme level of restrictions as we currently have. Already we’re seeing in Italy that people are starting to get restless. So two big questions:

1) on Easter Sunday, do you think there will be further restrictions, no change with just an extension or some relaxation?

2) what will be the first thing rolled back?

My own guess would be: extension for at least 1 week. Then to allow some businesses like DIY shops to reopen, perhaps allow gatherings of 2/3 people, maybe a token increase on 2km.

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Thelonious Monk

I don't think anyone's debating the fact that this is going away any time soon, but there's no point fretting over it is there, doesn't help

never_mind

jmayo wrote: »

For any one that iams just let the old and compromised stay in lockdown, it is not that simple
Yes a lot of old people live alone, but with no real social distancing i.e no shutdown then they dare not go out at all.

As for the ones with respiratory difficulties like asthma or CF.
A lot of those live with families and are they all supposed to lock down too or just maybe shove the poor compromised ones to the garden shed.

And let me tell you this any long term smokers out there, no matter how old and supposed health you are, you better be worried.
Should all the smokers stay at home in lockdown as well ?

Have either of you thought that shutdown/lockdown or not these people have serious issues that will not fooking magically disappear until the threat of covid19 is eliminated ?

They still will be in fear, will still be washing themselves raw, because now people are back out and about, free to transmit it openly once again because restrictions have been lifted.
If anything they will probably be worse off.

And if and when everything is back open the hospitals will be full of very sick people and you think they can go there for help.

Yet these type of mentally ill people are being used as an excuse to open things up. :rolleyes:

Maybe next time don't use people with anxiety or OCD cleaners as examples of the ones whose mental health will be helped by having wholesale infections in the community.

I really despair at what this country has produced.

Soz but whatever utter BS. People with anxiety and OCD are struggling hard through this, myself included and I can afford the 100 Euro sessions online for CBT. People with those issues are finding this really rough.

faceman

KiKi III wrote: »

Here's the difference between me and you Lainey: I know I don't have all the answers. That's why I'm placing my faith in the doctors, epidemiologists, government officials and economists who are experts in their fields.

With respect, while we must follow the lead of the professionals, blind faith in any human is never wise. After all, ask Vicky Phelan if she would have total faith in Tony Holohan.

[Deleted User]

God I'm pure exhausted reading this thread , there is a lot of anger on it. I'm out. Whatever happens, THIS is not good for my mental health - step away from the keyboards folks and get some fresh air.

Tea drinker

average_runner wrote: »

Sweden is getting ready for a lockdown. Numbers increasing alot more these days.

People are not happy there

Sweden's death er million is 50% worse than ours. No country for old men

Dakota Dan

IAMAMORON wrote: »

You also realise that you are quoting tweets from Jim Corr?

I love Jim btw, but he gets notions about how things are.

No need for Jim my sister is a nurse working in a private hospital you know the hospitals that the media said are being used as public hospitals now? It closed last week and she was let off however they have reopened it since with 2 patients.

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

God I'm pure exhausted reading this thread , there is a lot of anger on it. I'm out. Whatever happens, THIS is not good for my mental health - step away from the keyboards folks and get some fresh air.

I’m leaving the coronavirus boards as well. I don’t think it’s good for anyone’s mental health.

IAMAMORON

odyssey06 wrote: »

Source for €24 billion cost to the Exchequer:
https://www.rte.ie/news/business/2020/0402/1128100-exchequer-figures/

I have read this before. You are convoluting the figure. It is currently 8 billion with the potential of 16 billion, but this is speculative. It is not the cumulative of the figures. This is how rumours get going.

"At a press conference to announce the latest Exchequer figures, Finance Minister Paschal Donohoe indicated that the potential loss of taxation this year could be higher than €8 billion."

odyssey06 wrote: »

0% VAT applies to bread milk vegetables fruit meat baby products, your 'essentials':
https://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/money_and_tax/tax/duties_and_vat/value_added_tax.html

The tax take for supermarket bought alcohol is significant (something like 40% as an approx rule of thumb) but as the price paid is multiples lower than in pubs, restaurants if we are all drinking at home there'll be a lot less VAT and excise revenue.

Point taken, but bickies, crisps, booze, sweets etc. Also you need to incorporate taxes charged on the supply of all foodstuffs. But you are right about essentials.

The economy will take a beating, but I don't think it will be as detrimental as TV3 want you to believe. Journalists are genuine chunts and scaremongers, don't forget that.

When everyone gets to leave their kennels in 3 months watch out for employers using this crisis as an opportunity to shave off disliked or unwanted staff. If you are not 100% sure your boss needs you , or more importantly likes you, I would be preparing for the worst. Entrepreneurs are seething right now, they are losing money, they don't like that , even poor Paddy Cosgrave.

IAMAMORON

Dakota Dan wrote: »

No need for Jim my sister is a nurse working in a private hospital you know the hospitals that the media said are being used as public hospitals now? It closed last week and she was let off however they have reopened it since with 2 patients.

I don't believe you, sorry.

Nermal

Tea drinker wrote: »

Sweden's death er million is 50% worse than ours. No country for old men

50% on top of minuscule is still minuscule.

https://off-guardian.org/2020/03/24/12-experts-questioning-the-coronavirus-panic/

Idbatterim

One issue that has fcuked me over and I’m sure a lot of people ! Shutting builder providers. I literally have no problem with everything else they have done. But they are providing an essential service in many ways in my opinion! You’re half way through a build, or need stuff urgently , what do you do ? Wait a few months? Shutting down builders and trades , is idiocy in my opinion! There is only so much the economy can take on top of them being shut , just being knee jerk in my opinion !

IAMAMORON

Idbatterim wrote: »

One issue that has fcuked me over and I’m sure a lot of people ! Shutting builder providers. I literally have no problem with everything else they have done. But they are providing an essential service in many ways in my opinion! You’re half way through a build, or need stuff urgently , what do you do ? Wait a few months? Shutting down builders and trades , is idiocy in my opinion! There is only so much the economy can take on top of them being shut , just being knee jerk in my opinion !

You should write a letter to the Dept of Business, Enterprise and Innovation and make a complaint.

Business, Enterprise and Innovation

https://www.gov.ie/en/organisation/department-of-business-enterprise-and-innovation/

I would advise you to engage a PR firm first, they will help you with any government lobbying they think is appropriate.

Good Luck.

ITman88

Idbatterim wrote: »

One issue that has fcuked me over and I’m sure a lot of people ! Shutting builder providers. I literally have no problem with everything else they have done. But they are providing an essential service in many ways in my opinion! You’re half way through a build, or need stuff urgently , what do you do ? Wait a few months? Shutting down builders and trades , is idiocy in my opinion! There is only so much the economy can take on top of them being shut , just being knee jerk in my opinion !

Yeah certainly the builder providers could of remained open and maintained social distancing.

Completely knee jerk as you said, and will cause unnecessary suffering on top of everything else

donaghs

KiKi III wrote: »

The amount of posters suggesting we isolate the old and the sick indefinitely so they don’t have to make any sacrifices is sickening.

And unworkable. Utterly unworkable.

1 in 5 people in Ireland is over 65. 1 in 12 has asthma.

Indefinitely? How on earth did you come to that conclusion? Are you just unable to seriously examine an alternative idea?

Letting everyone else build herd immunity certainly carries a risk to those people, but it’s still a quicker solution and will get the elderly out of danger quicker.
With the caveat that The hospital system may not cope with the initial surge in cases in the worKing age population.

Jurgen Klopp

To be fair to the builders providers too a lot I know were doing it in a tidy way. You give a list of what ya wanted and paid through a little window

Anything from the yard you backed the truck/trailer/etc to a certain mark in the yard and handed the paper to a suitably attired worker and you stood back while the lads loaded your materials then you sat in and off

It was actually a far more strict operation than what the supermarkets could work

donaghs

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Pretty realistic tbh. I've gotten a 20% pay cut and it's fully expected to revert back to normal when this is over.

The longer this goes on, many jobs won’t exist anymore. It depends where you are in the pipeline. Some people’s place of work is gone, others are just taking pay cuts. Civil service-types are ok, for now...

easypazz

KiKi III wrote: »

No, you're not. You keep advocating for herd immunity, which as I've said, no health expert is advocating. I've asked you for links to back up your point of view and you're unable to provide them.

So the best you can do is pretend that it's the government's secret plan that they're not sharing with the public for no particular reason and that no one but the very clever people like you have figured out?

Google herd immunity covid 19.

Its part of the solution mix.

[Deleted User]

Jurgen Klopp wrote: »

To be fair to the builders providers too a lot I know were doing it in a tidy way. You give a list of what ya wanted and paid through a little window

Anything from the yard you backed the truck/trailer/etc to a certain mark in the yard and handed the paper to a suitably attired worker and you stood back while the lads loaded your materials then you sat in and off

It was actually a far more strict operation than what the supermarkets could work

There are enough farm suppliers why carry an amount of building supplies open to get anything needed to make anything in progress safe until we relax things in a few weeks

Jurgen Klopp

[Deleted User] wrote: »

There are enough farm suppliers why carry an amount of building supplies open to get anything needed to make anything in progress safe until we relax things in a few weeks

Jaysus lad what farm suppliers do you frequent? I'm being serious

All the ones I know don't sell lumber bar fencing stakes or any sort of wavin piping etc

donaghs

KiKi III wrote: »

Your view of “herd immunity” is not supported by evidence and the countries that tried it have all backtracked.

You should read some of the descriptions of “mild” symptoms. I’m healthy, young people this can include a week of high fever and difficulty breathing.

They backtracked because it was not politically acceptable, and over concerns for the healthcare system being overwhelmed.

Young people still mostly get mild or no symptoms. Of course some get high fevers, and some rare case will even die.

donaghs

faceman wrote: »

There is no exit strategy without a vaccine or cure. There are only management strategies in the meantime. And all the research points toward the same things. Restricted social contact and public movement across the board.

The 1918 global pandemic passed through the world population and life went on. The second wave very deadly though. Exposure in locations to the first Milder wave seemed to provide herd immunity to the deadly second wave.

easypazz

donaghs wrote: »

They backtracked because it was not politically acceptable, and over concerns for the healthcare system being overwhelmed.

Young people still mostly get mild or no symptoms. Of course some get high fevers, and some rare case will even die.

In simple english bojo and donald thought they were smart, and now thousands, maybe hundreds of thousands, will die and their medical professionals will endure incredible turmoil.

Whether by pure luck or whatever, our leader is also a GP and got all the medical stuff the first time it was presented to him and acted swiftly.

donaghs

easypazz wrote: »

In simple english bojo and donald thought they were smart, and now thousands, maybe hundreds of thousands, will die and their medical professionals will endure incredible turmoil.

Whether by pure luck or whatever, our leader is also a GP and got all the medical stuff the first time it was presented to him and acted swiftly.

Bojo and Trump are a good distraction. Not really relevant though as it looks like they never had a plan, or preparations, and covered it with bluster.

Sweden does seem to have planned this though, and I guess we can judge the end results from them.

Leo and Co could have made a simple but real impact early on by stopping travel to/from northern Italy. But Is that just delaying the inevitable?

ZX7R

Jurgen Klopp wrote: »

To be fair to the builders providers too a lot I know were doing it in a tidy way. You give a list of what ya wanted and paid through a little window

Anything from the yard you backed the truck/trailer/etc to a certain mark in the yard and handed the paper to a suitably attired worker and you stood back while the lads loaded your materials then you sat in and off

It was actually a far more strict operation than what the supermarkets could work

They are open but not to the public , home delivery only

hmmm

jmayo wrote: »

Have either of you thought that shutdown/lockdown or not these people have serious issues that will not fooking magically disappear until the threat of covid19 is eliminated ?

They still will be in fear, will still be washing themselves raw, because now people are back out and about, free to transmit it openly once again because restrictions have been lifted.
If anything they will probably be worse off.

Of course we've thought of that, there isn't a family in Ireland who doesn't have someone with a condition.

But - what are we supposed to do? We can't lock the country down for 2 years. We need a better plan than "all stay in your homes". There will be no way to "beat" this virus, only reduce the spread, until at best a vaccine possibly emerges.

I see a future of testing & contact tracing - not lockdowns. Those people at particular risk may have to decide to continue to isolate for a long period of time, and should be supported by the state.

Jurgen Klopp

easypazz wrote: »

Google herd immunity covid 19.

Its part of the solution mix.

I don't know why people are getting so upset when herd immunity is mentioned. Yes I agree the HI of the UKs initial let it rip through the population freely isn't a runner the UK and now Sweden are learning that.

But what we are doing does include it as a by product of current measures.

Lockdowns and restrictions are to slow down the spread so we don't overwhelm hospitals and end up with battlefield levels of triage.

However it's still allowed a slow creeping hand amongst the population, 80% with little to no symptoms, we then funnel the 20% to hospitals.

A vaccine takes 12-18 months to be developed well you'd need to add at least 6 months for adequate levels of manufacturing and deployment too.

Even the restriction level we had pre lockdown is still developing the herd immunity, it's just doing so slowing and a by product of our flattening the curve measures.

Most people will get this eventually, due to its makeup unfortunately. Theres no such thing as saying we are trying to stop people getting it, that's just not possible in the long run.

Our big trouble is how long can we financially keep lockdowns or restrictions for X amount of business, we may hop along as a nation with just pubs, restaurants and tourism for a while but current measures can only go for so long or you'll get a complete backfire where a nation has run out of money and can't borrow anymore. Then all social payments go as well as hospitals not being provided with any supplies.

Then you've done nothing but bought some time and it gets to blaze thought the population regardless.

There has to be a balance. I'd say 2 more weeks lockdown. But I'm hoping then for previous restrictions but with a mandatory face mask in public (I can't understand the people who tout we must follow the South Korea model while sniggering at public mask wearing, at least it's being recognised as important as distancing and handwashing now) added to distancing and handwashing. Cocconing of over 70s and vulrenable (which I'm in myself) to be kept for at least the summer

Honestly I don't know what the **** we'll do after that maybe we can hobble along until vaccine time with the pre lockdown restrictions?

The only outlier is if some drug combo of already allowed drugs are found to significantly reduce the need or length of hospital and/or ventilator use. That would allow a lot more flexibility but remains to be seen

Lockdowns until vaccine is deployed isn't viable as that strategy would mean with nations financially bolloxed it would have run through populations already and we'd have most of the bodies burned by the time the first injection was at your local GP

Loafing Oaf

hmmm wrote: »

Those people at particular risk may have to decide to continue to isolate for a long period of time, and should be supported by the state.

But it won't be feasible for huge numbers of them to do this in a 'watertight' way: elderly people living with children/grandchildren for instance.

IAMAMORON

hmmm wrote: »

Of course we've thought of that, there isn't a family in Ireland who doesn't have someone with a condition.

But - what are we supposed to do? We can't lock the country down for 2 years. We need a better plan than "all stay in your homes". There will be no way to "beat" this virus, only reduce the spread, until at best a vaccine possibly emerges.

I see a future of testing & contact tracing - not lockdowns. Those people at particular risk may have to decide to continue to isolate for a long period of time, and should be supported by the state.

Britain have committed to testing 100,000 per week today, if they can. That means they will only have tested 1 million people in 10 weeks time. That is under 2% of their entire population.

The whole testing issue is not going to fix anything. If the Brits can't even test 2% of their population in the next 10 weeks what chance have we got? Think about it, the physical testing aside, the results have to be sent to a lab and then a physical person has to test each and every test. It takes time and resources both human and the physical compounds ( of which there is a limited supply ), there is simply not enough to go around. This testing mantra cannot work. It is getting overemphasised by too many people who don't fathom the reality that it is not physically possible to test everyone. In fact I would estimate that a vaccine will be found before it is possible to test everyone, I am not exaggerating.

Galwayguy35

Idbatterim wrote: »

One issue that has fcuked me over and I’m sure a lot of people ! Shutting builder providers. I literally have no problem with everything else they have done. But they are providing an essential service in many ways in my opinion! You’re half way through a build, or need stuff urgently , what do you do ? Wait a few months? Shutting down builders and trades , is idiocy in my opinion! There is only so much the economy can take on top of them being shut , just being knee jerk in my opinion !

Shutting the garages was dumb as well.

hmmm

IAMAMORON wrote: »

The whole testing issue is not going to fix anything. If the Brits can't even test 2% of their population in the next 10 weeks what chance have we got? Think about it, the physical testing aside, the results have to be sent to a lab and then a physical person has to test each and every test. It takes time and resources both human and the physical compounds ( of which there is a limited supply ), there is simply not enough to go around. This testing mantra cannot work. It is getting overemphasised by too many people who don't fathom the reality that it is not physically possible to test everyone. In fact I would estimate that a vaccine will be found before it is possible to test everyone, I am not exaggerating.

We don't need to test everyone to get the spread down.

We need to find people with symptoms. We trace their close contacts. We test the contacts. We are scaling up to thousands of people doing contact tracing, and the capability to do 15,000 tests a day.