nav[aria-label="Primary Navigation"] { padding: 0; & ul { list-style: none; width: 100%; display: flex; flex-direction: row; justify-content: start; align-items: start; gap: 30px; padding: 0; & li { margin: 0; } & ul li { list-style: none; } } }

Child Item

The Grapevine (OFF TOPIC CHAT) Part II

Tar.Aldarion

Welcome to the new chat thread! The previous installment can be found here.
I will copy in some posts from the last thread now to help continue on!

Find more posts tagged with

Quick Links

Comments

Worztron

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

I would consider that not plantbased but vegan, since it doesn't harm any animals to have it cooked nearby meat I have no issue with it personally.

rainbow kirby

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

I would consider that not plantbased but vegan, since it doesn't harm any animals to have it cooked nearby meat I have no issue with it personally.

I tend to take a similar view on things like this and the KFC vegan burger. As the veggie-working-towards-vegan separated mum of two young children who are omni to keep their dad happy it opens up many more options for us. I know that my children (nearly 4 and 2) are guaranteed to eat a BK kids meal. There are times when it will be the easy option for us to go somewhere like that. If I can get a meal as well then it makes our lives easier.

Similarly, with the KFC vegan burger there are actual vegan sides - but if I get the beans then my 2 year old is likely to dive in

Tar.Aldarion

I always think these places are ideal for people in your situation, and people need to realise that others have different circumstances than themselves. Not to mention these places are just cheaper than others and many want to go out for a meal with their family on a budget so this is easier for them in another aspect too.

rubadub

In McDonalds they have the big screens for ordering stuff on yourself, you can customise the burgers. I noticed there was a "remove beef pattie button", I remember hearing of people asking for burgers with no bun who were off bread.

You can now ask for lettuce and mayo on even the eurosaver burgers. I get double cheeseburgers with the works, extra lettuce, mayo, mustard, pickles, onions, ketchup. They are quite substantial.

McDonalds do veggie dippers so I guess you could get those and a eurosaver burger with no meat and build your own burger. Might be cheaper than buying the dedicated burger. Or stick some chips in the burger bun.

It looks like the veggie burger just has 2 dippers in it.

Tar.Aldarion

https://ourworldindata.org/uploads/2020/01/Environmental-impact-of-foods-by-life-cycle-stage.png

https://ourworldindata.org/food-choice-vs-eating-local?fbclid=IwAR3eVgttM6X6RtygEh-RhRXohxyvz0CB2-Mmx1sD8ur-q54eyPUIKtNa0uI

Nice article explaining why what you eat is far more important than where your food comes from, sometimes local food is even worse for the environment, interestingly.

New Home

Tar, that picture is really interesting, but it's also massive (to reduce it to the width of the screen I had to reduce it to 30%) - could you possibly resize it, please? If it's just me, then don't worry.

Tar.Aldarion

I made the bigger one clickable and posted a smaller one if that helps! Didn't realise as it's automatically resized for my screen somehow, sorry!

New Home

Thanks Tar.

gozunda

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

https://ourworldindata.org/uploads/2020/01/Environmental-impact-of-foods-by-life-cycle-stage.png

...

Nice article explaining why what you eat is far more important than where your food comes from, sometimes local food is even worse for the environment, interestingly.

Unfortunatrly the above claim that "what you eat is far more important than where your food comes from, sometimes local food is even worse for the environment" is simply not borne out by the information presented

The infographic linked is actually derived from data from a meta-analysis study on 'food's environmental impact' by Poore and Nemacek. To put it simply - the infographic uses Poores and Nemaceks aggregated global data from 119 countries. It does not show 'local' data for food production.

In the infographic the aggregated global data for 'greenhouse gas emissions across food supply chain' is broken down as follows:

1. Above ground changes in biomass from deforestation and below ground changes in soil carbon
2. Farm
3. Animal feed
4. Processing
5. Transport
6. Retail
7. Packaging

Taking No. 1 in that list - for example - the percentages of ghg emissions for beef comes from 119 countries and are not measured but taken to be 'global average values' - and those emissions therefore do not represent 'local' data - but rather aggregated data of many different regions and different production systems worldwide.

Not only does the infographic use aggregated data - it also to fails to demarcate beef production in those countries where cattle are fed mainly forage on existing grasslands or production which does not involve ongoing deforestation and also appears to omit the very important role that grassland plays in carbon sequestration and which has recently been highlighted by the European Environment Agency

The other significant issue with Hannan Ritchies use of data is that - it is taken from a study about other studies.

Whilst it is certainly true that such meta-analysis represents a powerful way to summarize data - it remains this type of reseach comes with a host of recognised problems - including the fact that such reseach may be little more than "an analysis of analyses' and that any findings may not derive from objective study but rather the cherry picking of selected data

Scientists have to make several decisions and judgment calls that influence the outcome of a meta-analysis...

Even when no money is at stake, researchers may have an interest in the outcome of a meta-analysis—for instance because they may hope to confirm what their own studies had previously shown, or because they’ve supported certain policies.

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2018/09/meta-analyses-were-supposed-end-scientific-debates-often-they-only-cause-more

Which brings me to my last observation. I would be rightly lambasted if I were to present a piece here for example giving data from a meta-analysis of different studies showing beef to be good for you (even given that was peer reviewed reseach) written by someone working or who has worked in the beef industry.

The fact is that the author of the above article Hannah Ritchies has worked in the plant food industry with a company involved in the development of plant derived proteins made from bioethanol - a company whose stated aim is to promote commercial alternatives to traditional protein farming ...

davidjtaylor

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

https://ourworldindata.org/uploads/2020/01/Environmental-impact-of-foods-by-life-cycle-stage.png

https://ourworldindata.org/food-choice-vs-eating-local?fbclid=IwAR3eVgttM6X6RtygEh-RhRXohxyvz0CB2-Mmx1sD8ur-q54eyPUIKtNa0uI

Nice article explaining why what you eat is far more important than where your food comes from, sometimes local food is even worse for the environment, interestingly.

Taking the 'nuts' example at the bottom, I think of how our patch has been transformed - we have lots of trees now plus have turned grazing into semi-self-sufficient food production. The land may not be CO2 negative but it's possibly as neutral as one can get.

gozunda

davidjtaylor wrote: »

Taking the 'nuts' example at the bottom, I think of how our patch has been transformed - we have lots of trees now plus have turned grazing into semi-self-sufficient food production. The land may not be CO2 negative but it's possibly as neutral as one can get.

David - is there anyone in Ireland growing nuts as a commercial crop?

Tilikum17

Pizza Hut in the UK plans to go go dairy free by 2030. Never hat a Pizza Hut to be honest.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/vegannewsnow.com/2020/02/28/pizza-hut-dairy-free-carbon-neutral/amp/

Tilikum17

After trying for ages to find nice vegan boot I came across the website below. They have a vegan section with a brand I hadn’t heard of before. There’s also 20% off at the min. I’m not in any way or know anyone attached to the site.

https://www.soletrader.co.uk/mens/vegan/

I ordered a pair on Sunday eve & got them today. Delighted with them tbh.

Unearthly

Hoping everyone is safe and well these days.

Worztron

Unearthly wrote: »

Hoping everyone is safe and well these days.

auspicious

https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-52638628

New Home

https://www.boredpanda.com/vegan-leather-cactus-desserto-mexico/

auspicious

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zmwxZu91NwA

quickbeam

I've got a query that I don't think is worth starting a new thread for, so hoping it's okay to ask here.

I was watching Eat Grow Cook there over the week and they were growing courgettes. Now, I'm no gardener, but I've always fancied the idea of one day having a vegetable garden. But, they used both chicken manure pellets for feeding the courgette plants, and diluted semi-skimmed milk for preventing a fungus infection on the plants. I'm wondering would either, or both of these activities render the courgettes no longer vegan? Certainly the milk would point that way. But even the feed, if it's a bi-product of the poultry industry, surely that would be against the vegan ethos? In fact, to extend the argument further, would all manure, as a bi-product of meat or other non-vegan activities render the crop it is used on also non vegan?

For the record, I'm vegetarian, not vegan, though I have cut down on my use of animal sourced products in recent years.

Tar.Aldarion

I think for most people, they just do what is practicable for them, so telling if a courgette in a supermarket was made in this way is quite hard, so they just do their best. They are mostly concerned with the more important aspects, perhaps if everybody was vegan then those things would be under more scrutiny. At the end of the day there are many problems with production at a commercial scale in general that people have to work out. If a vegan was growing at a small scale like that they would probably make endeavours to find an alternative. In general, you can't live without doing harm, but what you can do is try and limit it best you can.

auspicious

End factory farming campaign UK petition.

https://t.co/YzHG3hQIKs?amp=1

auspicious

Hogwood
34mins
Available on Amazon Prime video ( YouTube €2.99)
https://mobile.twitter.com/vivacampaigns/status/1308466092147462144?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Eembeddedtimeline%7Ctwterm%5Eprofile%3Avivacampaigns%7Ctwcon%5Etimelinechrome&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.vivahealth.org.uk%2Fresources%2Fsafeguarding-childrens-health%2Fhistory-conclusion-online
https://www.google.com/search?q=hogwood&oq=hogwood&aqs=chrome..69i57j46j0l2j69i60.7851j0j7&client=ms-android-samsung-gs-rev1&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8#vch=https://m.youtube.com/watch?v%3Da_mQR7w__F0

F1ngers

Not worthy of a new thread.

Bought Applewood vegan slices in Tesco(square) on Wednesday.

https://www.veganfoodandliving.com/news/applewoods-smoked-vegan-cheese-is-now-available-in-slices/

It's ok "raw" but it really comes into its own when toasted.
I toasted with quorn vegan smoked "ham" and it is absolutely lovely.

Toast the cheese first until it melts/goes brown, add quorn "ham" and another slice of bread and toast both sides.

Tar.Aldarion

yeah it's great melted, I quite like it as is too

auspicious

‘Animals feel pain’: why a farmer’s son turned vegan
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/people/animals-feel-pain-why-a-farmer-s-son-turned-vegan-1.1953889%3fmode=amp

auspicious

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7EWshot-BPM

https://proveg.com/blog/proveg-launches-campaign-to-stop-eu-veggie-burger-naming-ban/

Tilikum17

auspicious wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7EWshot-BPM

https://proveg.com/blog/proveg-launches-campaign-to-stop-eu-veggie-burger-naming-ban/

Ham burger
Beef burger
Veggie burger

They’ve been around for years but now they want to change it. It’s just shows you how worried they are lol.

auspicious

Katherine Drake StoweResearch Coordinator
North Carolina Soybean Producers Association
imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fnebraskasoybeans.org%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2016%2F02%2FSoybeans-101.jpg&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Fnebraskasoybeans.org%2Feducation%2Ffoodandfuel&docid=APtBxVvgS71QYM&tbnid=FALr64L06ISUmM&vet=1&w=1071&h=834&itg=1&client=ms-android-samsung-gs-rev1&bih=594&biw=360&ved=2ahUKEwj4g52B5sDsAhUPa8AKHQ31CAMQxiAoAHoECAEQFg&iact=c&ictx=1

imgres?imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fnebraskasoybeans.org%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2016%2F02%2FSoybeans-101.jpg&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Fnebraskasoybeans.org%2Feducation%2Ffoodandfuel&docid=APtBxVvgS71QYM&tbnid=FALr64L06ISUmM&vet=1&w=1071&h=834&itg=1&client=ms-android-samsung-gs-rev1&bih=594&biw=360&ved=2ahUKEwj4g52B5sDsAhUPa8AKHQ31CAMQxiAoAHoECAEQFg&iact=c&ictx=1

https://content.ces.ncsu.edu/north-carolina-soybean-production-guide/soybean-facts

Soy cultivation is a major driver of deforestation in the Amazon basin. Seeds from the soybean plant provide high protein animal feed for livestock, and 80% of Amazon soy is destined for animal feed; smaller percentages are used for oil or eaten directly. Today Brazil has 24-25 million hectares devoted to the growth of this crop, and is currently the second largest producer of soybeans in the world.
https://globalforestatlas.yale.edu/amazon/land-use/soy#:~:text=Soy%20cultivation%20is%20a%20major,for%20oil%20or%20eaten%20directly.

The majority of soybean is grown primarily for animal feed. All soybean is processed for oil first.

rubadub

https://www.thejournal.ie/farmers-ban-burger-steak-milk-vegan-products-5238249-Oct2020/

One amendment would curtail the use of terms such as ‘steak’, ‘sausage’, ‘escalope’, ‘burger’ or ‘hamburger’ on products that do not exclusively contain meat.

surely this is not right? the whole idea is ludicrous but are they going to rule out meat sausages that have rusk etc in them?!

Unearthly

It's extremely short term thinking fear. Plenty of ways around such as the packaging showing the actual product then as products get established, the brand recognition will take over

Nothing to worry about for me