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What will the economy look like in 6 months time?

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    #212
    Zenify
    Registered Users Posts: 861 ✭✭✭Zenify


    nthclare wrote: »
    I don't understand why people are saying that we're going to be taxed to the hilt.

    Do ye realise that it's the big earners etc who will be hit the most, and middle and low incomes will be hit less so.

    The only way to sort this out is to hammer the parasitic elite and its looking like there's going to be a different monetary structure after all this.

    With these cretins with millions and billions in reserve, the only way to find a solution is to use their money to reset the economy by taxing them @90%
    Nothing they can do about it, because they have enough money left after that to live out the rest of their lives in luxury.

    I say turn the whole fcking lot on its head, and rattle the bastards.

    Why is there billions of profits in these multinationals?

    Why isn't it distributed fairly only to be sitting in cyber space, digital currency is all it is.

    If fluctuates throughout the day depending on the market value.
    There's not enough money printed on the planet to match all the value of these multinationals profits,like Facebook, Microsoft and others.

    Its all speculation and its "THE EMPERORS NEW CLOTHES" of the 21 century and it doesn't exist
    Never has they're lying.

    Because something of value is valued and not wasting away in limbo inside some fcking cyberspace.

    Those billions we hear about, where are they?
    They're no where, its all a game and people listen to the lies of speculators day in day out.

    Wasting their head space, oh yawww im working for multinational... We made 6.5billion in profits lost year.

    They didn't there's no money like that on the planet.

    Soon enough with all these companies nose diving you'll see they won't have enough money to advertise, the likes of Facebook won't be getting advertising revenue.
    Slowly you'll see Facebook start to lose its value, it'll start off with a trickle and then all of a sudden it'll be a good idea to start to lay off staff.

    People will be wondering, sure Facebook or some other multinational has billions why are they laying off staff?

    Why???

    How much do you earn to be an elite?

    Are you talking income tax or capital gains tax or corporate tax? Will they not just leave a country if we tax them too much and become resident somewhere else as is already happening?

    Ireland was a lot poorer before the days of Facebook and Google. We need them more than they need us.


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    #213
    Glebee
    Registered Users Posts: 6,614 ✭✭✭Glebee


    I should not have read this thread. Now im depressed:(:(


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    #214
    mariaalice
    Registered Users Posts: 12,399 ✭✭✭✭mariaalice


    snoopboggybog wrote: »
    Unemployment losses will be massive in construction, restaurants, hotel trade, pubs, small businesses across the country and won't recover. A lot of places will be forced to close. Pubs will have a boom for a month after this is over but will completely drop off again.

    New car price sales will plummet. People will get the wake up call not to live pay check to check.

    House prices will fall dramatically particularly outside of Dublin and rents will continue to spire out of control.

    People will be paying off extra debt for at least 12 months or longer or could be ruined by debt.

    Stricter guidelines on welfare, could significantly drop for some people.

    People remaining working are going to be hit with increased taxes.

    I could go on and on but...

    Why would rents spiral out of controle?


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    #215
    nthclare
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,316 ✭✭✭nthclare


    Zenify wrote: »
    How much do you earn to be an elite?

    Are you talking income tax or capital gains tax or corporate tax? Will they not just leave a country if we tax them too much and become resident somewhere else as is already happening?

    Ireland was a lot poorer before the days of Facebook and Google. We need them more than they need us.

    No matter what country they move to, it won't matter because they've no where to run to unless they start up in fcking the North Sentinel Island

    The North Sentinel Islanders are too clever though because they're virus free not even the chicken pox is there , and if any of them got the covit 19 it'll prove that its airborne, and not transmitted through close contact.

    Every country in the world is effected by the virus except for the North Sentinel Island and any country they move to they'll strip the profits off these companies by high tax percentages.

    IM TALKING ABOUT COOPERATIVE TAX


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    #216
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 28,949 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    the central bank money creation systems have been switched on, taxing elites more i hear you say! dream on! they ll clean up with all this extra cheap cash being made available from the central banks


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    #217
    nthclare
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,316 ✭✭✭nthclare


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    the central bank money creation systems have been switched on, taxing elites more i hear you say! dream on! they ll clean up with all this extra cheap cash being made available from the central banks

    I never said they're taxing them more, you're reading my post in a factual manner rather than hypothetically...

    A lot of my post is hearsay, because I don't want to go down the rabbit hole and get into how actuaries work and how the systems a big lie.

    If you read it properly (by the way im dyslexic) so to some it might look like word salad through a blender... Not my fault

    But its not far off the truth, these multinationals are not worth billions, as I said anything of worth would be useful....

    Its all speculation and by taxing the **** out of multinationals through cooperative tax, you'd realise that the money doesn't exist.

    So you'd be outing every last one of them for their lies and these narcissistic parasites don't like losing face.

    Pride killed a lot of men, thats for sure


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    #218
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 28,949 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    nthclare wrote: »
    I never said they're taxing them more, you're reading my post in a factual manner rather than hypothetically...

    A lot of my post is hearsay, because I don't want to go down the rabbit hole and get into how actuaries work and how the systems a big lie.

    If you read it properly (by the way im dyslexic) so to some it might look like word salad through a blender... Not my fault

    But its not far off the truth, these multinationals are not worth billions, as I said anything of worth would be useful....

    Its all speculation and by taxing the **** out of multinationals through cooperative tax, you'd realise that the money doesn't exist.

    So you'd be outing every last one of them for their lies and these narcissistic parasites don't like losing face.

    Pride killed a lot of men, thats for sure

    im dyslexic myself, many large corporations are indeed worth billions, the value of their assets is where the bulk of this wealth is stored, but we have decided its best to tax very small amounts of this wealth, and allowing the rest to zip around the world, to eventually end up on servers in tax havens such as ours. increasing taxation on corporations is critical in reducing our growing wealth inequalities, but this needs to be done extremely carefully. i personally think we should be encouraging this by sharing the wealth of these assets, amongst its employees and other citizens via methods such as sovereign wealth funds etc. this may not destabilize the business models of large corporations too much, because if we do destabilize many of these large corporations, it would probably cause serve disruption and further destabilization in the greater economy.


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    #219
    maestroamado
    Registered Users Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭maestroamado


    I am not too informed on this but i will say what i think.
    Its the wealth of individual hidden away in banks we need to tax especially people who have hidden away in tax havens and pay no tax in their own Country, i am not just talking about Ireland though we have a few in this country.
    if they were any good now is the time to put some of their money to good use in the welfare of our people, i see lots of our health people are returning to offer their services.
    We likely starting a new socialist chapter after this, i think it is likely the Health care around the world will change. Because wealthy people could buy better health the Health insurance industry thrived and this is likely a game changer. The thing about this virus it treats everyone the same.
    I agree with the previous these corporations are worth the actual money does not actually exist, the wealth of these companies is in the value of the shares on a given day, money can be borrowed on this and the wheel keeps turning.
    If we screw around with this the shares drop and so on, it will be a short time until we see this happening with Airlines.
    There will be a sizematic shift in world thinking after this, ie WHO IS IN CHARGE.


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    #220
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 28,949 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    maestroamado wrote: »
    I am not too informed on this but i will say what i think.
    Its the wealth of individual hidden away in banks we need to tax especially people who have hidden away in tax havens and pay no tax in their own Country, i am not just talking about Ireland though we have a few in this country.
    if they were any good now is the time to put some of their money to good use in the welfare of our people, i see lots of our health people are returning to offer their services.
    We likely starting a new socialist chapter after this, i think it is likely the Health care around the world will change. Because wealthy people could buy better health the Health insurance industry thrived and this is likely a game changer. The thing about this virus it treats everyone the same.
    I agree with the previous these corporations are worth the actual money does not actually exist, the wealth of these companies is in the value of the shares on a given day, money can be borrowed on this and the wheel keeps turning.
    If we screw around with this the shares drop and so on, it will be a short time until we see this happening with Airlines.
    There will be a sizematic shift in world thinking after this, ie WHO IS IN CHARGE.

    wealth accumulation is a highly complex thing, majority of wealth is actually held by large institutions and corporations, these actually arent humans, they are a collection of systems and processes, of course humans interact with these systems and processes, and of course the wealthiest have more access and control of these systems and processes. i do think the better way of sharing this wealth, is sharing the wealth of these assets better, large corporations are critical to our existence, even though their existence does bring major negative aspects for our survival, i.e. we need them, but we must radically change the way they operate, without destabilizing them too much. im not convinced a switch to socialism is necessarily gonna happen, or is a good thing, i do think we need to change our current operations of capitalism to move forward, i am fond of the use of the term progressive capitalism, even though i dont think anyone really knows what that actually means


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    #221
    Elmer Blooker
    Registered Users Posts: 6,065 ✭✭✭Elmer Blooker


    thebaz wrote: »
    as we are all isolating hard to speak to many , but the few I have including myself have all no work now, small business closing everywher - Who is going to pay for this massive unemployment bill - totally depressing
    Very depressing and worrying.
    Why has our National Broadcasting service imposed a news blackout on the implications that this lockdown will have on our economy? Nothing. No discussion.
    Some mindless trivia about doing exercise on at the moment.......


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    #222
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 28,949 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    Elmer Blooker wrote: »
    Very depressing and worrying.
    Why has our National Broadcasting service imposed a news blackout on the implications that this lockdown will have on our economy? Nothing. No discussion.
    Some mindless trivia about doing exercise on at the moment.......

    as the virus passes, focus will turn to the economy, this is understandable, as our immediate concern is the virus itself

    its looking very likely that we ll all be in a fairly similar situation economically after all of this, so i expect a global effort to ramp up economic activity, central banks are ramping up quickly, so i expect a very aggressive global effort, as nobody wants to experience a serious prolonged downturn. unfortunately there will be a lot of pain for some, so hopefully we have a robust welfare system to deal with that


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    #223
    enricoh
    Registered Users Posts: 4,863 ✭✭✭enricoh


    The big thing imo is the multinationals, whether they shed considerable numbers here or not. Then if bloody brexit happens at the end of the year to vaporise consumer confidence.
    I'm guessing the corporation tax take this year will be a fraction of last year's, a big hole to fill.

    Sod it anyway, when are the pubs back open!


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    #224
    BanditLuke
    Registered Users Posts: 2,600 ✭✭✭BanditLuke


    The rich will do as they always have done and pull up the drawbridge after themselves.


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    #225
    Snow Garden
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,126 ✭✭✭Snow Garden


    mariaalice wrote: »
    Why would rents spiral out of controle?

    The poster is wrong. Rents will decrease significantly due to availability and affordability.


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    #226
    maestroamado
    Registered Users Posts: 4,426 ✭✭✭maestroamado


    Elmer Blooker wrote: »
    Very depressing and worrying.
    Why has our National Broadcasting service imposed a news blackout on the implications that this lockdown will have on our economy? Nothing. No discussion.
    Some mindless trivia about doing exercise on at the moment.......


    I think this is a good idea... do you want to hear how much worse people are... bad news more bad news. I watch/listen to news once a day...


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    #227
    snotboogie
    Registered Users Posts: 3,570 ✭✭✭snotboogie


    nthclare wrote: »
    I don't understand why people are saying that we're going to be taxed to the hilt.

    Do ye realise that it's the big earners etc who will be hit the most, and middle and low incomes will be hit less so.

    The only way to sort this out is to hammer the parasitic elite and its looking like there's going to be a different monetary structure after all this.

    With these cretins with millions and billions in reserve, the only way to find a solution is to use their money to reset the economy by taxing them @90%
    Nothing they can do about it, because they have enough money left after that to live out the rest of their lives in luxury.

    I say turn the whole fcking lot on its head, and rattle the bastards.

    Why is there billions of profits in these multinationals?

    Why isn't it distributed fairly only to be sitting in cyber space, digital currency is all it is.

    If fluctuates throughout the day depending on the market value.
    There's not enough money printed on the planet to match all the value of these multinationals profits,like Facebook, Microsoft and others.

    Its all speculation and its "THE EMPERORS NEW CLOTHES" of the 21 century and it doesn't exist
    Never has they're lying.

    Because something of value is valued and not wasting away in limbo inside some fcking cyberspace.

    Those billions we hear about, where are they?
    They're no where, its all a game and people listen to the lies of speculators day in day out.

    Wasting their head space, oh yawww im working for multinational... We made 6.5billion in profits lost year.

    They didn't there's no money like that on the planet.

    Soon enough with all these companies nose diving you'll see they won't have enough money to advertise, the likes of Facebook won't be getting advertising revenue.
    Slowly you'll see Facebook start to lose its value, it'll start off with a trickle and then all of a sudden it'll be a good idea to start to lay off staff.

    People will be wondering, sure Facebook or some other multinational has billions why are they laying off staff?

    Why???

    This reads more like a fantasy than a prediction. I don't think you have thought through the consequences of destroying multinationals, Ireland would be uniquely exposed and all sectors of the economy would be crushed. Our tax base would be halved, there would be public sector cuts all over the place, I can't think of a local SME who wouldn't be affected, most rely either directly on multinational contracts or on the money spent by employees of multinationals and their suppliers or on public sector employees who's tax base is supported by corporation tax and the PAYE of employees of multinationals and their suppliers.


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    #228
    mariaalice
    Registered Users Posts: 12,399 ✭✭✭✭mariaalice


    For a while, a lot of the froth will go businesses that depend on personal services or businesses that depend on trends or fashion, bubble tea, being one example trendy and expensive bars and restaurants or food experiences, traditional pubs will come back. Anything that depends on a wealthy urban lifestyle will be hit, up side of that is drugs like cocaine could take a massive hit.

    The issue is that such businesses support a lot of employment directly and a wider ecosystem of employment in businesses such as accountancy practices and legal practices.

    Construction will come back quickly, pharmaceuticals and health care will be booming.

    Some businesses will close down and owners retired soon that they have wanted to.

    The property market will take a temporary hit but nobody will be getting a red brick in Ballsbridge for peanuts.

    A lot depends on how long it goes on for and what happens in the rest of the world.


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    #229
    nthclare
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,316 ✭✭✭nthclare


    snotboogie wrote: »
    This reads more like a fantasy than a prediction. I don't think you have thought through the consequences of destroying multinationals, Ireland would be uniquely exposed and all sectors of the economy would be crushed. Our tax base would be halved, there would be public sector cuts all over the place, I can't think of a local SME who wouldn't be affected, most rely either directly on multinational contracts or on the money spent by employees of multinationals and their suppliers or on public sector employees who's tax base is supported by corporation tax and the PAYE of employees of multinationals and their suppliers.

    No id never want them destroyed not all all, I think the likes of Google and a few more are essential, but Facebook.... Seriously

    As I explain im dyslexic so its hard to get my message across.

    I just think that their systems are unfair and they are not making the profits we're being lead to believe, because money is useful and where are the huge profits going?
    , It's not going to the young lady cleaning the piss off toilets in Google head quarters or the guy who's going out for coffee etc
    Or the people running the cogs..

    Its a huge profit, sitting idle.

    This market value of jobs is bullsh1t, cleaning the jax is one of the most important things in a building but yet the cleaners are the lowest rung paid in the organisations.

    Dont get me started with recruitment agencies and insurance brokers they're another bunch of ghouls.

    Ripping people off, anyone can go out and get insurance without paying a broker fee.

    Recruitment agency's are another scandal, back in the 90s they were only starting off.

    In some cases id say recruitment agencies are getting a nice handy chunk from the factory or call centre.

    Why not get rid of the recruitment agencies and go back to advertising jobs have an in-house interviewing process and give people a proper wage....

    I remember working in a factory in 1995 on my summer holidays and we would get a bonus if we got more than the suggested output.

    Myself and one of the lads who was ambidextrous like myself figured a way of shooting the heating elements into the machine.

    They were around 2ft long and there was a machine which was super fast.
    So usually you put one element in at a time, it squeezed the elements so as to compact the fused magnesium before it goes into the oven.

    Any how we laid out 5 elements in one hand flat, with the other hand we shot the elements into compactor, which shot them out the other side, quite fast might I add.

    Our bonuses were going through the roof, and the owner had no problem.
    As long as the elements were going out the door and and shipped around the world, happy days.
    It was the summer so dimplex which we were making the elements for were getting heaters ready for the coming winter.

    It was a hot summer 1995 and I made a lot of money.

    Dont hear of many companies giving bonuses now do we...

    No because they're treating staff like the work houses in victorian times....

    Progress my arse


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    #230
    Field east
    Registered Users Posts: 2,454 ✭✭✭Field east


    Summer2020 wrote: »
    Nobody has a clue. Anyone who says they know is lying.
    That’s very black and white of an answer. Of course they can indicate how all this- re impact of the virus- will impact on the economy. One can come up with various models once the relevant parameters are stated such as unemployment levels, total gov income , interest rates on money borrowed , pay back period, etc, etc.
    Some may be way out but at least gives those of use something to build on. Is the ‘exercise’ any more different when compared to annual budgets or party manifestos’ which can be away out at times - only difference is that this time things are a bit more uncertain


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    #231
    snotboogie
    Registered Users Posts: 3,570 ✭✭✭snotboogie


    nthclare wrote: »
    No id never want them destroyed not all all, I think the likes of Google and a few more are essential, but Facebook.... Seriously

    As I explain im dyslexic so its hard to get my message across.

    I just think that their systems are unfair and they are not making the profits we're being lead to believe, because money is useful and where are the huge profits going?
    , It's not going to the young lady cleaning the piss off toilets in Google head quarters or the guy who's going out for coffee etc
    Or the people running the cogs..

    Its a huge profit, sitting idle.

    This market value of jobs is bullsh1t, cleaning the jax is one of the most important things in a building but yet the cleaners are the lowest rung paid in the organisations.

    Dont get me started with recruitment agencies and insurance brokers they're another bunch of ghouls.

    Ripping people off, anyone can go out and get insurance without paying a broker fee.

    Recruitment agency's are another scandal, back in the 90s they were only starting off.

    In some cases id say recruitment agencies are getting a nice handy chunk from the factory or call centre.

    Why not get rid of the recruitment agencies and go back to advertising jobs have an in-house interviewing process and give people a proper wage....

    I remember working in a factory in 1995 on my summer holidays and we would get a bonus if we got more than the suggested output.

    Myself and one of the lads who was ambidextrous like myself figured a way of shooting the heating elements into the machine.

    They were around 2ft long and there was a machine which was super fast.
    So usually you put one element in at a time, it squeezed the elements so as to compact the fused magnesium before it goes into the oven.

    Any how we laid out 5 elements in one hand flat, with the other hand we shot the elements into compactor, which shot them out the other side, quite fast might I add.

    Our bonuses were going through the roof, and the owner had no problem.
    As long as the elements were going out the door and and shipped around the world, happy days.
    It was the summer so dimplex which we were making the elements for were getting heaters ready for the coming winter.

    It was a hot summer 1995 and I made a lot of money.

    Dont hear of many companies giving bonuses now do we...

    No because they're treating staff like the work houses in victorian times....

    Progress my arse

    Its an unfortunate fact of life that your wages are not determined based on the value of your job to society but on how easily you can be replaced. The hotshot coder could be trained to clean toilets or do coffee runs in a week, flipping it the other way would take years of training.


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    #232
    ITman88
    Registered Users Posts: 876 ✭✭✭ITman88


    Elmer Blooker wrote: »
    Very depressing and worrying.
    Why has our National Broadcasting service imposed a news blackout on the implications that this lockdown will have on our economy? Nothing. No discussion.
    Some mindless trivia about doing exercise on at the moment.......

    Agree completely, all the media is focused on is death rate.
    No advice on preparation for what’s ahead from an economic point of view, and no advice on coping with insane adjustments to life in future.


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    #233
    ITman88
    Registered Users Posts: 876 ✭✭✭ITman88


    snotboogie wrote: »
    Its an unfortunate fact of life that your wages are not determined based on the value of your job to society but on how easily you can be replaced. The hotshot coder could be trained to clean toilets or do coffee runs in a week, flipping it the other way would take years of training.

    Yeah it’s also a fact that most people are paid due to responsibility level and that’s quiet fair to be honest.
    It seems a fair reflection on society that a toilet cleaner is paid less than a performance reviewed degree educated manager.
    It’s a ridiculous idea to pay everyone a similar wage, akin to a welfare society


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    #234
    nthclare
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,316 ✭✭✭nthclare


    snotboogie wrote: »
    Its an unfortunate fact of life that your wages are not determined based on the value of your job to society but on how easily you can be replaced. The hotshot coder could be trained to clean toilets or do coffee runs in a week, flipping it the other way would take years of training.

    Not necessarily trained in a week, but there's a difference between a handy cleaner and a professional hygiene service.
    There's a lot more to it than, a few cloths, hot water and chemicals.

    Try training a coder on his or her arse all day on how to keep a busy jax clean and do it right.

    But I identify with the comparison, seriously I'd prefer to pull weeds all day than being a coder, as I'm not great at codes and numerology.

    But I'm sure it takes a lot of time to be a top class coder, and it's a lot of calculations etc


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    #235
    storker
    Registered Users Posts: 5,646 ✭✭✭storker


    nthclare wrote: »
    This market value of jobs is bullsh1t, cleaning the jax is one of the most important things in a building but yet the cleaners are the lowest rung paid in the organisations.

    The lower you are on the totem pole, the more you're missed if you don't turn up for work. :)


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    #236
    ITman88
    Registered Users Posts: 876 ✭✭✭ITman88


    nthclare wrote: »
    Not necessarily trained in a week, but there's a difference between a handy cleaner and a professional hygiene service.
    There's a lot more to it than, a few cloths, hot water and chemicals.

    Try training a coder on his or her arse all day on how to keep a busy jax clean and do it right.

    But I identify with the comparison, seriously I'd prefer to pull weeds all day than being a coder, as I'm not great at codes and numerology.

    But I'm sure it takes a lot of time to be a top class coder, and it's a lot of calculations etc

    To be honest if you can’t be trained in jax cleaning in 10 minutes you shouldn’t be in the work force.

    A coder is a very complex role, one which the cleaner I know from work would probably struggle with


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    #237
    mariaalice
    Registered Users Posts: 12,399 ✭✭✭✭mariaalice


    It's not cleaning v coding.

    How much doses an agency that trawls every sort of media, fashion, emerging something or other trying to spot trends. Then sell the information to some marketing department or restaurants trying to find the latest thing, how much do they add to human existence?


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    #238
    ITman88
    Registered Users Posts: 876 ✭✭✭ITman88


    mariaalice wrote: »
    It's not cleaning v coding.

    How much doses an agency that trawls every sort of media, fashion, emerging something or other trying to spot trends. Then sell the information to some marketing department or restaurants trying to find the latest thing, how much do they add to human existence?

    Very few jobs add to the human existence.

    It’s not about vocations, it’s about remuneration level due to responsibilities


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    #239
    1800_Ladladlad
    Registered Users Posts: 3,352 ✭✭✭1800_Ladladlad


    a4RXzDw_460swp.webp
    link

    It will always fascinate me how they are looked after


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    #240
    nthclare
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,316 ✭✭✭nthclare


    mariaalice wrote: »
    It's not cleaning v coding.

    How much doses an agency that trawls every sort of media, fashion, emerging something or other trying to spot trends. Then sell the information to some marketing department or restaurants trying to find the latest thing, how much do they add to human existence?

    I know one guy who's on 60k a year, and he openly admits a 14 year old could do his job.

    Something similar to your description above.

    The reason I am interested in this subject is because I was one of those bellends in a management position up until 2003 making hard decisions and rotting from the inside out.
    All for the sake of a bag of silver now and again.

    It was a horrible job being a manager and working out how to shaft good people, in order to put more money in the pockets of investors who couldn't give a toss as long as they are making the money...

    If there's a place in hell for people who are like that, more than likely ill be there with them.

    I am remorseful with my past, but I know the difference now.

    Hopefully it'll be a more just society in our future, because it sure as hell wasn't in the past.


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    #241
    Nermal
    Registered Users Posts: 2,622 ✭✭✭Nermal


    1800_Ladladlad wrote: »
    a4RXzDw_460swp.webp
    link

    It will always fascinate me how they are looked after

    Except they're not going bankrupt because of an unforeseen medical emergency, are they? They're going bankrupt because the government has forced them to close.


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