I want a shutdown NOW!

Except that a sizable portion of the population aren't copying S.Korea. They're going out and meeting people as they would do normally.

Many people are following the guidelines, but it would take the majority of the population for it to work. As it has in S.Korea... but Irish people do not have a culture of obeying the government that exists there.

Half-assed implementation. Just like the UK really.

Plumbthedepths

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Except that a sizable portion of the population aren't copying S.Korea. They're going out and meeting people as they would do normally.

Many people are following the guidelines, but it would take the majority of the population for it to work. As it has in S.Korea... but Irish people do not have a culture of obeying the government that exists there.

Half-assed implementation. Just like the UK really.

Nothing like the UK really.

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Nothing like the UK really.

The UK flip flopped their reaction to the virus. Ireland will likely do the same, once the deaths rise significantly.

Deleted User wrote: »

Except that a sizable portion of the population aren't copying S.Korea. They're going out and meeting people as they would do normally.

Many people are following the guidelines, but it would take the majority of the population for it to work. As it has in S.Korea... but Irish people do not have a culture of obeying the government that exists there.

Half-assed implementation. Just like the UK really.

The UK badly advised their citizens. The NHS are already struggling. It's too late. Their death numbers will be colossal.

We are not copying South Korea's template at all. Some eejit posted that as fact earlier. It is not the case. How they managed to contain it is concisely outlined here by their Foreign Minister here

They were testing practically everyone from day one. 20,000 test per day. We are struggling to test even 2,000. We have a backlog of 40,000 - 50,000 cases out in the wild waiting to be tested.

They were monitoring people coming in and out of their country with temperature guns.

They have a top of the health care system. We do not. There is already murder on the frontlines with the HSE attempting to stiffle staff who are saying they don't have the PPE.

If we are struggling to test, turn around the results of the tests quickly, we are failing to identify people early, contain them, isolate those they have been in contact with. Its the key.

Only then can social distancing work. IF it spreads like wildfire as a result of not getting over the first hurdle, then we are fighting the pandemic blindfolded which will result in a massive number of cases in makeshift hospitals, with not enough medical staff nor equipment.

At that stage, like Italy, like Spain people die, without treatment, in favour of people the virus hasn't hit as hard and we end up in an everyday firefighting battle.

BoldReason wrote: »

Good thread here. Basically don't be stupid, stupid.

https://twitter.com/Care2much18/status/1242202053419642883?s=19

In fairness he makes a point.

But then Trump doesn't want a lockdown ..boris does want a lockdown.

So which idiot do we ignore?

Plumbthedepths

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The UK flip flopped their reaction to the virus. Ireland will likely do the same, once the deaths rise significantly.

The UK went down the route of herd immunity until they realised it was based on a different disease. Again nothing like the UK.

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Nothing like the UK really.

Not as bad as the UK.

But not as good as korea.

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

The UK went down the route of herd immunity until they realised it was based on a different disease. Again nothing like the UK.

The uk hasn't a ****ing clue what they are doing.

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

The UK went down the route of herd immunity until they realised it was based on a different disease. Again nothing like the UK.

The UK went with herd immunity, and then with advising people to behave a certain way (in a vague confused manner), which was ignored and then finally sought the lock-down.

Ireland went with social distancing, advising people to behave a certain way, and a sizable portion of our population is ignoring that advice... and we'll probably end up with a lock-down.

Pretty similar, I'd say. Stupidity all around.

But if you don't want, or can't accept the comparison, no worries. It doesn't change what has happened, or where we're headed because many Irish people can't/won't follow the advice given.

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

In fairness he makes a point.

But then Trump doesn't want a lockdown ..boris does want a lockdown.

So which idiot do we ignore?

He makes no point. His main point is that we are copying South Korea. We are not.

In answer to your second question. We ignore both idiots.

Each are on lockdown because their health systems are already overwhelmed. Barn door bolted, horse already gone. They left it too late. If you need to follow "someone" on twitter, then I suggest Professor John Crown, Cons Oncologist at St. Vincent's and ex Senator.

https://twitter.com/ProfJohnCrown

brick tamland

When people say full lock down do they want to follow the Wuhan approach where million are locked into apartment? Food deliverys done by the state ect?

Because anything less isn't lock down to me, its just various degrees of social distancing.

Plumbthedepths

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The UK went with herd immunity, and then with advising people to behave a certain way (in a vague confused manner), which was ignored and then finally sought the lock-down.

Ireland went with social distancing, advising people to behave a certain way, and a sizable portion of our population is ignoring that advice... and we'll probably end up with a lock-down.

Pretty similar, I'd say. Stupidity all around.

But if you don't want, or can't accept the comparison, no worries. It doesn't change what has happened, or where we're headed because many Irish people can't/won't follow the advice given.

I have no intention of accepting a B.S.comparison.

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

The uk hasn't a ****ing clue what they are doing.

I actually thought Ireland did.. but now I'm not so sure. Do you think Irish people have a handle on this?

brick tamland wrote: »

When people say full lock down do they want to follow the Wuhan approach where million are locked into apartment? Food deliverys done by the state ect?

Because anything less isn't lock down to me, its just various degrees of social distancing.

I suspect it means enforced social distancing similar to Germany or Spain.

Individuals are allowed outside, but nobody out together. No more than one person at a time... with it being enforced by the police with fines or such.

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

I have no intention of accepting a B.S.comparison.

Okie dokie.

STB. wrote: »

He makes no point. His main point is that we are copying South Korea. We are not.

In answer to your second question. We ignore both idiots.

Each are on lockdown because their health systems are already overwhelmed. Barn door bolted, horse already gone. They left it too late. If you need to follow "someone" on twitter, then I suggest Professor John Crown, Cons Oncologist at St. Vincent's and ex Senator.

https://twitter.com/ProfJohnCrown

I already follow him.

Although he is a cancer Dr. So not sure how relevant he is here? He deals with tumors. He isn't a epidemiologist.

Why would i follow him for updates on coronavirus?

lobbylad

brick tamland wrote: »

When people say full lock down do they want to follow the Wuhan approach where million are locked into apartment? Food deliverys done by the state ect?

Because anything less isn't lock down to me, its just various degrees of social distancing.

Correct, and there's no such thing as Full Lockdown. Where are the state going to get the food to deliver? If supermarkets stay open, then Brennans Bread, Pat the Baker etc all have to stay open. So then petrol stations have to stay open, and producers, packers, and delivery drivers. Supermarkets can't just "stay open" for very long without a constant flow of goods for the shelves.

A "full Lockdown" would probably still require 20% of people to go to work

Thats not to say that we can't tighten things a bit further than they are now.

Deleted User wrote: »

I actually thought Ireland did.. but now I'm not so sure. Do you think Irish people have a handle on this?

I think its 50% /50%

We COULD do it the easy way. But honestly the issue is this ..if we can't master social distancing and testing masks etc other measures ...like the advice from the WHO lockdown won't work without them.

A lockdown is NOT a substitute for these things.

The issue is not the rule ..but compliance.

With or without the lockdown ...we have to master the other things. They seem to be even more important.

And after the lockdown in the UK ..the news was filled with packed tube trains in london. So the lockdown is not being followed there.

lobbylad wrote: »

Correct, and there's no such thing as Full Lockdown.

This is the thing...and who is going to enforce it ...the UK expects 50% of police to have to self isolate at some point.

If we do it some will not comply. That will only prolong it. And it might still be useless.

Whatever we do its compliance.

Jinglejangle69

England not following the rules.

Loads of people out and about as usual.

So let's not cream ourselves over Boris yet.

lobbylad

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

This is the thing...and who is going to enforce it ...the UK expects 50% of police to have to self isolate at some point.

If we do it some will not comply. That will only prolong it. And it might still be useless.

Whatever we do its compliance.

You're dead right, its compliance of staying 2m away from everyone who is not a member of your household.

That's what we have to do, that will cause some businesses to close, effectively bringing in a sort of lockdown.

And stop queues outside coffee stands in scenic car parks. And chippers.

Though it is difficult to enforce.

Harry Palmr

Listening to Sean O'Rorke on RTE and it sounds like there will be a substantial ramping up of closing most
of the country down other than so called essentials.

lobbylad wrote: »

You're dead right, its compliance of staying 2m away from everyone who is not a member of your household.

That's what we have to do, that will cause some businesses to close, effectively bringing in a sort of lockdown.

And stop queues outside coffee stands in scenic car parks. And chippers.

Though it is difficult to enforce.

I dunno maybe lockdown will make people socially distance. Shrug.

Irish govt is expected to introduce tougher measures today.

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

I already follow him.

Although he is a cancer Dr. So not sure how relevant he is here? He deals with tumors. He isn't a epidemiologist.

Neither is Dr Holohan.

Professor Crown is a medical professional and a quite renowned one at that. He is well tied in and tuned into the medical community, including the Infectious Diseases Society of Ireland (IDSI). They said on 21/3.

ETxjgO2X0AA78Vk?format=jpg&name=medium

JMNolan

I think a long term shutdown is delusional. You can get away with a few weeks before there is civil unrest. Certainly what Dr Michael Ryan of the WHO says makes sense

“The danger right now with the lockdowns and with all the physical distancing and people are feeling this now, is that it’s really putting pressure on the economy and putting pressure on the social system,” Ryan said. "If we don’t put in place the strong measures, the strong public health measures now, when those movement restrictions and lockdowns are lifted the danger is that disease will jump back up."

So ya, maybe short term shutdown but we need to think about the broader issues.

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

I dunno maybe lockdown will make people socially distance. Shrug.

Irish govt is expected to introduce tougher measures today.

It has to.

Until our testing gets up to speed.

We are struggling with testing the numbers who have been put forward by GP's right now. A baclkog going back over 40-50,000 with more waiting in the wings. They are not being turned around quick enough. If we don't test these people and isolate those affected, then our numbers could get out of hand !

Many of those awaiting tests MAY be self isolating, but their families and those they came into contact it are not. That's an awful lot of people to have potentially spreading to people in the public domain over too long a period. As a result it could get out of control and overwhelm our health system.

brick tamland

Deleted User wrote: »

I suspect it means enforced social distancing similar to Germany or Spain.

Individuals are allowed outside, but nobody out together. No more than one person at a time... with it being enforced by the police with fines or such.

Im all for this, but in no way is this a lockdown