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Cork developments

snotboogie

I noticed that the Limerick equivalent is a very popular thread over on their forum so I thought I might get one going here. To kick things off I'll list the bigger current projects I can think of:

Under Construction

Navigation Square: Four building office development on the former Navigation House site on Albert Quay. 310,000 sq ft of office space for up to 3000 employees. First phase to be completed Feb 19'

89-90 South Mall: 50,000 sq ft office, 5 storey office building.To be completed in December 18'

Dalata Hotel South Mall: Six storey hotel, 165 beds. To be completed in December 18'

Various Student Accommodation: Western Road and Beamish site are under construction, Crows Nest has planning and should start soon, Square Deal is facing appeals, Coca-Cola site on the Carrigrohane Road has had planning for over a year but nothing has happened? O’Riordans Joinery, Gillen House on Farranlea Road, Model Farm Road/Melbourne Road and Copely Street are all at various stages of planning and/or limbo.

Planning/Appealed

Horgan's Quay: Office Space for 5,000 employees, 200 apartments, 136 bed hotel and 3000 sq metres of restaurants and retail. Got planning permission in March but it was appealed by Port of Cork. Uncertain when the final decision will be. Construction on the Hotel will hopefully begin in Q4 this year with the office and apartments commencing in 2019.

Sullivan's Quay: 6 storey Office & 193 bed 4 star Hotel. Planning granted and immediately appealed. Given that demolition is nearly complete I'd expect this to go into construction as soon as planning is granted. Potential hold up over the height of the hotel, at 12 storeys and 47 metres, it is set to make the top 20 tallest buildings in the state if completed. An Taisce not happy.

Former Victoria Hotel: Knocking much of the Victoria and rebuilding to the back and refurbishing the original historic front/facade and to integrate the two sections into a new high order retail unit, of 25,000 sq ft, over four floors. Rumoured to be taken over by Zara. Planning granted in Feb, nothing happened on site since.

Metropole Redevelopment: €50m redevelopment of the Metropole Hotel to include a new five-storey boutique hotel on Patrick's Quay. Planning granted with amendments in March. No date for work to start.

Wilton Shopping Centre: €100 million revamp proposed. Mistake made in planning permission. In the process of resubmitting.

In Limbo

Event Centre: 6000 all seater multi purpose event centre with a tourist brewery experience. Arguably the most controversial construction project in the history of the city. After a bleak 6 months at the back end of 2017 there have been two instances of positive murmurs from the Government and BAM in January 2018 and April 2018. Construction allegedly to start in Q4 2018 but there are still conflicting and contradictory statements from all parties involved. Most would be shocked to see this start in 2018.

Anderson Quay/Camden Quay/Trinity Quarter: All have had planning for years with no work on site. Camden Quay allegedly had some work going on last week but I'd be shocked if it was related to the actual construction. I can't see any of these sites being developed as per their current proposals.

Concept/Pre Planning

Docklands Tower: 40 storey mixed use tower with the redevelopment of the existing customs house warehouses into cultural, tourist and retail space. By a mile the most ambitious development in Ireland. Announced over one year ago and no sign of a planning permission application yet, allegedly waiting for the Docklands development plan this summer to rezone heights for the site. If we don't see a planning application by the end of the year I'd be worried.

Ford Distribution Depot: Put on sale last week. Former site of the extremely ambitious Atlantic Quarter. Major development opportunity

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Curb Your Enthusiasm

A solid tram line and a strong bus network, including feeder buses to tram stops, would be ideal for Cork IMO. Bus lanes aplenty needs to happen too.

namloc1980

Curb Your Enthusiasm wrote: »

A solid tram line and a strong bus network, including feeder buses to tram stops, would be ideal for Cork IMO. Bus lanes aplenty needs to happen too.

That's basically CMATS and BusConnects. Zero political will to deliver it unfortunately. It's bizarre that in a month or so the Taoiseach and Minister for Finance could be both from Cork and I have zero confidence that they would deliver anything for the city.

thomil

namloc1980 wrote: »

Your argument also states that because some traders will kick off that we shouldn't do these things? Basically you're advocating that the tail wags the dog. A proper BRT would require significant road closures, construction etc.

Not necessarily. certainly not for the duration that a light rail system would require. You still don't have to worry about laying tracks and signalling cables, you still avoid stringing catenaries, so any disruption in the city centre would be significantly lower. Outside the city centre, construction would be significantly less intrusive, since you're not necessarily bound to the road network. It would not be cheap, I admit that, but if that's what it takes to get the financing across the line, political buy-in, etc., than it would be much smarter to go with a BRT system rather than insist on a stillborn light rail line.

I suspect that if a bus is ultimately chosen over LRT in Cork, it'll be a complete fudge job with just a few unsegregated painted bus lanes here and there and everyone will pat themselves on the back, while traffic gets worse.

That would be the result anyway, regardless of which option is chosen. I believe that both the city council and significant parts of the Cork populace are incapable of making sensible decisions for the city. They lack the will and insight to change anything, hell, free parking and shoving more cars down every bloody lane is pretty much the only thing that much of the population seem to call for. The only way you're going to get a decent public transport system in this city is by forcing things against the resistance of the locals.

Chris_5339762

Once Dunkettle is done, would a third interchange at Dunkettle STRICTLY FOR PUBLIC TRANSPORT ONLY be a good idea, or would that still be bonkers? Ignore the cost of it, just the utility of it.

Apogee

snotboogie wrote: »

According to skyscrappercity an 80 apartment development from OCP has started by Lancaster Quay, expect a crane by January. Seems like that randomer on twitter was right, lets hope he was also right about the Prism

Irish Examiner wrote:

Completion of the 88 apartments is expected by December 2020, according to an OCP spokesperson, and apartments will be available for rent in early 2021.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/property/lazarus-apartments-on-leeside-lancaster-gates-40m-revival-with-88-build-to-rent-units-977098.html

chalkitdown1

marno21 wrote: »

ABP have granted permission (with conditions) for the development at the Glenenaar Bar

http://www.pleanala.ie/casenum/305353.htm

I guess that means my dentist at the corner there will have to find a new place to work out of! It was a handy 5 minute walk from where I live, too.

Markcheese

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

Once Dunkettle is done, would a third interchange at Dunkettle STRICTLY FOR PUBLIC TRANSPORT ONLY be a good idea, or would that still be bonkers? Ignore the cost of it, just the utility of it.

To be honest ,it's the only sensible thing to do .. dunkettle is probably the biggest transport hub in cork , and there's no public transport interchange ...
Was once told by a transport planner in city hall that it's not needed , because you can just come into town and change there .. yeah or I could just drive ...

whisky_galore

thomil wrote: »

Not necessarily. certainly not for the duration that a light rail system would require. You still don't have to worry about laying tracks and signalling cables, you still avoid stringing catenaries, so any disruption in the city centre would be significantly lower. Outside the city centre, construction would be significantly less intrusive, since you're not necessarily bound to the road network. It would not be cheap, I admit that, but if that's what it takes to get the financing across the line, political buy-in, etc., than it would be much smarter to go with a BRT system rather than insist on a stillborn light rail line.

That would be the result anyway, regardless of which option is chosen. I believe that both the city council and significant parts of the Cork populace are incapable of making sensible decisions for the city. They lack the will and insight to change anything, hell, free parking and shoving more cars down every bloody lane is pretty much the only thing that much of the population seem to call for. The only way you're going to get a decent public transport system in this city is by forcing things against the resistance of the locals.

It's like saying the Luas should never have been built, but Dublin would have completely choked without it. Sure you got whinging from home and business owners before and while it was being built, they're fairly quiet now that their property values went up.

Markcheese

Brt is a bit cheaper ,and a bit more flexible than a tram ,
But it's not cheap and it's not just a bendy bus ...
It needs a proper segregated lane , it needs decent ticketing ,it needs the same type of stops as luas does ... In fact the only thing it doesn't need is rails , and signaling .. but it can carry an enormous number of people ,and it can ( to some extent ) be done piece meal ...and manoeuvre around obstacles .( To some extent )

opus

The extension to Edel House on Grattan St.

namloc1980

Markcheese wrote: »

Brt is a bit cheaper ,and a bit more flexible than a tram ,
But it's not cheap and it's not just a bendy bus ...
It needs a proper segregated lane , it needs decent ticketing ,it needs the same type of stops as luas does ... In fact the only thing it doesn't need is rails , and signaling .. but it can carry an enormous number of people ,and it can ( to some extent ) be done piece meal ...and manoeuvre around obstacles .( To some extent )

For a proper segregated system you would need some form of signalling or at least prioritisation at signalised junctions. Otherwise it'll just get stuck in traffic lights like the rest of the traffic.

bingo9999

Interesting one from the RTE archives. To be fair a few of the big projects listed here did happen since 1978, notably JLT and south ring. But bizarre to hear others mentioned here that have not been lead forward in all this time

https://www.rte.ie/archives/2018/0905/991729-future-bright-for-cork/

opus

opus wrote: »

First time I came across a pic of what the finished student apartments on the Mardyke are going to look like.

Signs have appeared on this saying opening Sept '20. Was thinking about it and a very good location, across the road from the park, 5 mins walk to UCC, 5 mins walk to the Mardyke Arena sports centre & 15 or 20 mins walk to the city centre. Quite enough spot away from traffic as well (maybe students wouldn't care about that!).

rounders

opus wrote: »

Signs have appeared on this saying opening Sept '20. Was thinking about it and a very good location, across the road from the park, 5 mins walk to UCC, 5 mins walk to the Mardyke Arena sports centre & 15 or 20 mins walk to the city centre. Quite enough spot away from traffic as well (maybe students wouldn't care about that!).

I've seen pictures of this a lot but haven't been out that direction recently to see where is actually is. It looks like it is down the one-way street to the side of Fitz park but I'm hoping it's beside the aib where there has been horarding and a whole in the ground for the last 10 years?

marno21

rounders wrote: »

I've seen pictures of this a lot but haven't been out that direction recently to see where is actually is. It looks like it is down the one-way street to the side of Fitz park but I'm hoping it's beside the aib where there has been horarding and a whole in the ground for the last 10 years?

It’s at the junction of Noel Cantwell Walk and Mardyke Walk. At the back of the Hawthorn Veterinary Clinic.

Very good location near the Castlewhite entrance to UCC. I pass it daily and it’s been flying up, the Sept 20 signage only went up recently too.

rounders

marno21 wrote: »

It’s at the junction of Noel Cantwell Walk and Mardyke Walk. At the back of the Hawthorn Veterinary Clinic.

Very good location near the Castlewhite entrance to UCC. I pass it daily and it’s been flying up, the Sept 20 signage only went up recently too.

Is this where it is?

marno21

rounders wrote: »

Is this where it is?

Indeed it is.

opus

Looks like the hostel in the old tourist office on GP is going ahead.

UK property firm secures planning permission to build hostel on Cork''s Grand Parade

opus

rounders wrote: »

Is this where it is?

This the view from Fitzgerald Park at lunchtime, up to first floor level now.

Nigel Fairservice

I see there is a for sale sign up on the old Garda station on MacCurtain street. Something might finally go in there after all these years.

mire

Nigel Fairservice wrote: »

I see there is a for sale sign up on the old Garda station on MacCurtain street. Something might finally go in there after all these years.

it's sold afaik

shnaek

mire wrote: »

it's sold afaik

Yeah, it sold at auction - 620k.

who_me

Nigel Fairservice wrote: »

I see there is a for sale sign up on the old Garda station on MacCurtain street. Something might finally go in there after all these years.

Given how McCurtain St. has been on the up 'n' up for the last few years, I'm surprised nothing had been done with it for so long. My guess would be another hostel?

On another note - I see Vsource (software services?) seem to be moving into the Thompson's building. I don't know if it's in addition to or replacing their South Mall office.

With that, the recent opening of the Glass Curtain and the pending opening of the brew bar, and the redevelopment of Windsor House) there are now only 1 or 2 vacant units on the North side of the street (one next to the Glass Curtain, and possibly the former dentists office next to the Garda station?)

bingo9999

The resurgence of MacCurtain street is really unexpected and wonderful, not all that long ago it was closer to North Main Street. Which makes me wonder if the Cork economy is of a scale that for one area to improve it tends to comes at the expense of another. I would hope not, especially with the docklands looking like its going to come on track

leahyl

When is the Prism expected to begin?

satanta99

bingo9999 wrote: »

The resurgence of MacCurtain street is really unexpected and wonderful, not all that long ago it was closer to North Main Street. Which makes me wonder if the Cork economy is of a scale that for one area to improve it tends to comes at the expense of another. I would hope not, especially with the docklands looking like its going to come on track

I don't think that is the case.

The reason that North Main Street has declined so much is due to site owners sitting on their sites and the resulting increasing dereliction.

We should see a planning application for the old Munster Furniture site this year for student accommodation.

I would hope that the next government will increase the derelict site tax to prevent this site hoarding behavior in towns and cities across Ireland.

marno21

Denis O'Brien Developments has filed a SHD consultation for the demolition of the "San Paula" house on Orchard Road and construciton of 216 student bedspaces.

http://pleanala.ie/casenum/306442.htm

questionmark?

bingo9999 wrote: »

The resurgence of MacCurtain street is really unexpected and wonderful, not all that long ago it was closer to North Main Street. Which makes me wonder if the Cork economy is of a scale that for one area to improve it tends to comes at the expense of another. I would hope not, especially with the docklands looking like its going to come on track

I really hope the council improve the streetscape on this street. Some great business but the streets are grey and uninviting with cars dominating the street. Less parking, more seats, better footpaths, trees etc...

bingo9999

marno21 wrote: »

Denis O'Brien Developments has filed a SHD consultation for the demolition of the "San Paula" house on Orchard Road and construciton of 216 student bedspaces.

http://pleanala.ie/casenum/306442.htm

That will go down like a lead balloon with the well-to-do neighbours

namloc1980

questionmark? wrote: »

I really hope the council improve the streetscape on this street. Some great business but the streets are grey and uninviting with cars dominating the street. Less parking, more seats, better footpaths, trees etc...

Definitely. MacCurtain Street has a good vibe especially towards the Bridge Street end but it's badly let down by the streetscape dominated by cars and narrow footpaths.