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People like SF candidates but won't vote for SF

frillyleaf

I’ve heard people saying multiple times that they like certain SF candidates but they won’t vote for them as they are Sinn Fein. Trying to understand why there is such opposite to Sinn Fein? Have looked up online but not getting good info. Surely if someone likes a candidate and what they stand for they should vote for them? Please explain

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blanch152

efanton wrote: »

Do you realise this government spent 80 billion this year, thats €80,000,000,000, an awful lot of zero's and a number that most cant really comprehend

Are you seriuosly suggesting that out of that money they could not have allocated a signicant chunk to building social and affordable housing?

Council budgets have not increased dramatically, nor has the allocation for spending on social and affordable housing, and you expect councils to suddenly produce miracles.

THe reality is FG want nothing to do with social housing, they want all housing to be private sector.
The problem is we are now in the position that even if a developer was able to build 100,000 additional homes just in the Dublin area even those working could not afford them.

http://www.budget.gov.ie/Budgets/2019/Documents/White%20Paper_Estimates%20of%20Receipts%20and%20Expenditure%20for%20Year%20ending%2031%20Dec%202019.pdf

Can you show me in this document where the government spent €80bn? I cannot find it there, and it is difficult to take anything you say seriously when you are about 30% out with your first figure.

As for councils, the SF-led councils in Dublin continually reduced LPT (a tax on the wealthy) when that money could have been used for building social housing.

is_that_so

frillyleaf wrote: »

I don’t think they did put a huge amount towards building it. They have relied heavily on private landlords for social housing and include these in “stock”

https://www.housing.gov.ie/corporate/finance/annual-budget/murphy-eoghan-murphy-welcomes-eu26-billion-housing-budget

frillyleaf

Matt Barrett wrote: »

They pass off buying and leasing new builds as social housing builds, neglecting to mention that they didn't actually build them.
It's a con. People complain they don't want to pay for social housing when they already are and through the nose by using the market to buy and lease.
25 year leases ffs..

Yes look at Dundrum for example. What an utter waste of money going to investment companies

riddles

They were faced with tough choices in the north regarding budget deficits and pulled down the government using bogus reasons. Disaster waiting they are along with the greens.

blanch152

frillyleaf wrote: »

Yes look at Dundrum for example. What an utter waste of money going to investment companies

A decision of the local council, which happens to have a FF Cathaoirleach.

Not simple to place blame.

rockatansky

blanch152 wrote: »

As for councils, the SF-led councils in Dublin continually reduced LPT (a tax on the wealthy) when that money could have been used for building social housing.

Nonsense, it's a tax on every home owner rich and poor alike.

JP Liz V1

Would it really be so bad to have SF in power, give them a chance, same old ****e always from FG and FF

eagle eye

rockatansky wrote:

100% the right thing to do. Just as Gerry Adams carrying the coffin of a Shankill bombers. It's sickening but a necessity in order to hold a movement together. They don't and never have denied it.

Right for Martin Ferris. Kevin Walsh was the leader of that gang, wonder who he was taking orders from?

blanch152

rockatansky wrote: »

Nonsense, it's a tax on every home owner rich and poor alike.

Yes, and home owners are wealthy, owning a home is a definition of wealth, being homeless, in social housing, or renting, unable to buy a home is a definition of not having wealth.

frillyleaf

JP Liz V1 wrote: »

Would it really be so bad to have SF in power, give them a chance, same old ****e always from FG and FF

I think a lot of people are starting to lean this way to give them a chance and see what they bring to the table! Not an easy task to fix the health or housing at the moment but FGFF have made it disastrous. In 2017 alone there was approximately 2000 local authority houses built compared to 15,000 new Hap tenancies! Working people can’t afford to rent or buy. The cost of that is huge and it ends up going into to private sector as opposed to county councils.

skallywag

rockatansky wrote: »

They don't and never have denied it.

Why would you expect them to deny it?

James Brown

The younger generation will begin to tune out every time a FF'er or FG'er starts sh*ting on about the 'RA and things happened before they were born instead of discussing things that effect them today. They'll care as much as they do about the Blueshirts in time.

Hamsterchops

JP Liz V1 wrote: »

Would it really be so bad to have SF in power, give them a chance, same old ****e always from FG and FF

Well for oldies like me who 'remember' ......
SF can never be allowed to take power here.

After all the bank robberies, murders, death, mayhem & sadness, Sinn Fein candidates (if pushed) still cling to the "just war" shyte, which involved so many murders, kidnappings & disappearances (North & South) none of which were condemned by Sinn Fein (at the time), hence why so many of us oldies are still wary of them!

James Brown

Hamsterchops wrote: »

Well for oldies like me who 'remember' ......
SF can never be allowed to take power here.

After all the bank robberies, murders, death, mayhem & sadness, Sinn Fein candidates (if pushed) still cling to the "just war" shyte, which involved so many murders, kidnappings & disappearances (North & South) none of which were condemned by Sinn Fein (at the time), hence why so many of us oldies are still wary of them!

You looking forward to retiring and then signing on the dole for a year?

Hamsterchops

Not quite yet ....:)

efanton

Hamsterchops wrote: »

Not quite yet ....:)

so it will be two or three years on the dole, maybe even more.

What cracks me up about the whole situation is the state saves very little money as things stand. They dont pay a pension but instead they pay dole. and then waste a huge amount in administering the sign-on process while these people wait for their pension.

Would it not have been better and simpler simply giving those have have reached 65 a pension until such time that they actually put their brain in gear and passed legislation to prevent companies retiring workers until they had reach pensionable age.

The current government that will tell the electorate that only they could be trusted with the economy.
It's totally laughable if it wasn't causing chaos and distress to those forced to retire and still not be entitled to a pension.
What make the whole situation worse is there is very little benefit to the state's coffers as things stand. As usual what some might argue as a reasonable action or policy, performed by the truly incompetent.

Gringo180

_Brian wrote: »

Their economic reasoning is nothing short of madness.

Tax the working more to give more to the won’t work.

Is that quite true tho?

They have said they will abolish the USC for earners under 30k per annum.

[Deleted User]

JP Liz V1 wrote: »

Would it really be so bad to have SF in power, give them a chance, same old ****e always from FG and FF

If Sinn Fein cleaned up their act and removed the bloody bank robbing thugs, they would already have had a Taoiseach

Knowall1

Ask your SF canvassers was Gerry Adams in the IRA. They will tell you a lie. And if they can't tell the truth on that simple thing then why believe it on anything else

[Deleted User]

rockatansky wrote: »

Not in real life I'm afraid.

They have proven transfer toxic in huge swathes of the country, so they will not be leaders of any government.

As minority partners they'll damage one of the big two, who gets into bed with tgem.

blanch152

Hamsterchops wrote: »

Well for oldies like me who 'remember' ......
SF can never be allowed to take power here.

After all the bank robberies, murders, death, mayhem & sadness, Sinn Fein candidates (if pushed) still cling to the "just war" shyte, which involved so many murders, kidnappings & disappearances (North & South) none of which were condemned by Sinn Fein (at the time), hence why so many of us oldies are still wary of them!

I remember all too well and not ashamed to keep reminding people of what Sinn Fein really are.

Ignore the trite responses about your pension, times like this bring out the Sinn Fein supporter in so many.

efanton

blanch152 wrote: »

I remember all too well and not ashamed to keep reminding people of what Sinn Fein really are.

Ignore the trite responses about your pension, times like this bring out the Sinn Fein supporter in so many.

so how far back does the memory argument count?

Before you make assumptions I'm not here asking anyone to support any particular party. Nor am I arguing in favour of any particular party.

Do we go back as far as the blueshirts when Eoin Murphy's nazi blueshirts were essentially the hired muscle at FG meetings, and the FG party were in full support of Franco, Musolini and dare I say it Hitler until they realised the atrocities these men were committing.

Do we not even go back that far, when FF ministers we smuggling weapons across the border to support the provisional IRA

Or do we go back even further when Eamonn De Velera marched in to the Dail bearing arms and started a civil war?

where is the cut off point, is is that's to be only determined by yourself and others with a similar viewpoint?

I think it is totally disingenuous for any of the major parties (including SF) to claim they have perfectly clean hands. A lot of wrong was done and was supported in one way or another in the past. Unfortunately we cannot change that, if only we could.

As it stands I dont think any of the SF candidates were even old enough to have participated in the troubles, and unless I am informed other wise with solid prosecutable facts none of them have been proven to be involved in any paramilitary activity.

The old guard of SF/provisional IRA have long retired from politics, and that can only be seen as as a good thing.
Isn't it time we actually listened to what SF candidates and the SF party has to say?
That doesn't mean we have to agree with them, but surely throwing the provisional IRA card on to the table no longer counts as a trump

facehugger99

JP Liz V1 wrote: »

Would it really be so bad to have SF in power, give them a chance, same old ****e always from FG and FF

Yes, it would be "so bad".

It's the equivalent of burning down your house because you don't like the colour your kitchen's been painted.

SF are state-subversives. They do not believe in the legitimacy of our country and will attempt to undermine its democratic freedoms if they're let anywhere near the levers of power.

Mary Lou's getting fed her lines by shadowy murderers up in NI.

Do you really want people like that having a say in our justice system or policing?

I have no love for FF or FG, but this line of reasoning, that because they're so crap we should just hand SF the keys to the State is dangerous in the extreme.

I won't even go into the lunacy of their economic policies because it's really beside the point.

road_high

Maysa07 wrote: »

I think it's the outright bias in the media towards SF, Perhaps it gets to people who can't think for them self's?

Sorry I can think for myself- SF are utter frauds of the lowest kind. I can see right through them and their hoards of online keyboard warriors (do they still pay these people?) for what they are. I am sick to the teeth of them and want them as part of a governemnt to see how they'll get on when thrown in at the deep end. They're going to solve Housing and Health as well as give everyone more money in their pockets so lets see it in action finally.
Mary Lou-gob should be Health Mininster and Doherty into Housing. Their friends in Syriza can advise them, they did a super job on Greece.

road_high

Gringo180 wrote: »

Is that quite true tho?

They have said they will abolish the USC for earners under 30k per annum.

And who's going to pay the short fall?

road_high

Blaze420 wrote: »

I’m not voting SF because I think they are a party for wasters and layabouts, the free for all brigade in other words. As a taxpayer earning over 30k they have absolutely nothing to offer me.

Quite violent as well. Angry, lower class, under educated males are the SF I think of when I see SF. Wannabe Conor McGregor types. They even had one running for them until last week. Pierce Doherty is of a similar ilk too.

is_that_so

Gringo180 wrote: »

Is that quite true tho?

They have said they will abolish the USC for earners under 30k per annum.

€30K a year is about the level of people SF might expect to attract. Can't comment on who this guy is but he does offer up some numbers on workers and salary levels and that could be a huge chunk of people. Bear in mind that USC on €30K is about €650 a year and that it takes in €4bn overall.

https://www.thejournal.ie/readme/opinion-64-of-workers-in-ireland-earn-less-than-the-average-salary-4562071-Apr2019/

FrancieBrady

I wondered how long it would be before we would be going back to desperately try and discuss the conflict/war.

TuringBot47

efanton wrote: »

The old guard of SF/provisional IRA have long retired from politics, and that can only be seen as as a good thing.

It's just a rebranding, putting women as the face of Sinn Fein.
Window dressing to try and deflect from past atrocities and criminality.

marieholmfan

TuringBot47 wrote: »

It's just a rebranding, putting women as the face of Sinn Fein.
Window dressing to try and deflect from past atrocities and criminality.

Sure , sure, sure,sure.

I guess a lot of people can't be bothered virtue signalling about Nicky Mountbatten or Tim Parrish or Johnathan Ball and just want a party that will help working people instead of the boss class and the bankers and the developers.

A few dead kids 40 years ago is light in the balance compared to a council house tomorrow.