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The Dominance of Dublin GAA Mod warning post#1

seligehgit

Discussion of all matters relating to this contentious subject is welcome and the potential implications of same.This thread is solely for this purpose.

There appears to be a perception that the moderators are attempting to shut down discussion of this topic and direct same off to a low traffic stickied thread.Nothing could be further from the truth.Our sole motive was to confine discussion to a single thread and prevent cross thread posting which was adversely affecting the enjoyment of fellow posters.

Can we please keep posts civil and constructive in nature.

The Changes in the GAA-super thread is now for discussion of all other suggested reforms not relating to Dublin GAA.

Extra Mod Warning:
Right, a separate warning to both sides in this debate:
Firstly, any more mentioning of "financial doping" or any intimation that rules have been broken by Dublin or that Dublin have cheated are banned from now on. You can debate the issue of the funding that Dublin have received without resorting to that. There is zero evidence of it and posting about it will be considered trolling from here on in.

Secondly, this topic is, like it or not, a big talking point in gaelic football at the moment. You are more than welcome to argue your point, but posting in this thread to simply mock those on the other side or complaining about the topic is known as thread spoiling and is specifically banned in the charter (see point 8 here). No one is forcing you to click on this thread and no one is forcing you to post in it. If you don't like the topic, then don't post. It's as simple as that.

This thread is here so that all the discussion is in one place and it won't filter into other threads. This makes it easier to ignore for posters who don't really want to be involved in it. As a result, we haven't really been moderating it as severely as other threads. However, a number of posts recently from both sides are sailing too close to the wind and getting borderline personal. So please take a minute before you hit submit to ensure that your post won't fall foul of the rules. We'll have no hesitation in issuing cards and/or threadbans to posters who fail to heed this warning.

Please report any posts that you feel break the rules.

Any questions, please feel free to PM the mods.

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GreenandRed

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

But at least the 2 very good Dublin teams could potentially be matched by other teams from around the country. True there would be all dublin all ireland finals, but so what? Best of luck to them if they can do it. They would be 2 seperate teams the same as everyone else.
Can other teams actually match dublin? For all their well meant striving. Is it reasonable to expect it to actuallycome to pass?
Like we can all strive to be lotto winners. But it doesnt take a genius to work out that it is the actual odds of that happening and nothing else that is going to dictate how many actually manage it, and straight away, we know that it is a very miniscule chance. Otherwise people are just living in a fantasyland.

That's what Donegal 2012 and Kerry 2014 thought, we've as much chance as wining the lotto as winning the All Ireland. Kerry came close in 2019. We came close enough but, again, no cigar in 2016 and 2017. In truth we don't have a squad of players with enough self belief since 1951. If we did we'd have won at least one since '51. Thankfully most players don't think like keyboard warriors like yourself and myself. They think no-one will beat them. At least until the reach All Ireland Finals that is. Dublin are a quality team but their competitors thrive on the challenge. They want to improve and eventually beat the Dubs and knock them off their perch. Wherease in cyberworld we try and change the rules or the formats to reduce Dublin's level to ours but there's no guarantees they won't continue to win.

The Lost Sheep

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

I want to do the best of both.
As for just benefitting mayo, am I really? Mayo will be in transition for a while by the looks of things. No team has won the all ireland with a population as low as mayos in recent times. The two dublin teams and several of the amagamations I have suggested would be far better situated as regards population and facilities, to do better than my own county. So no, I dont think that claim can be reasonably made about what I have said.
I firmly believe that what I have suggested would benefit the game. Similarly, I dont believe that joining every other county in the entire country up simply to match dublin, as you have suggested, would be a good move for anyone. Geographic concerns come into it, optimum levels of the game also, as well as the possibility of the thing actually beig a success in reality.
Your overriding criteria seems to be, I dont want to appear biased. My criteria is, make gaeilc football the best it can be. If someone tries to claim im just being biased, then they cant see the wood from the trees, but that is their problem. Im still going to suggest the best solution, and I have (or am at least close to it) I believe.

why does everyone think every county entitled to be in top flight for Sam ever year. That's the biggest issue with Gaelic. Short that as well as how league finishes before provinces start which end before all Ireland series really kick into gear. That's a major fault as well.
Dublin shouldn't have to be split and they wont win continuously or near as much they have the past 5 years over the next couple of years as players etc move on.

Merging sides isnt the way forward and doesnt fix a lot of what are the major issues.

MayoAreMagic

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

why does everyone think every county entitled to be in top flight for Sam ever year. That's the biggest issue with Gaelic. Short that as well as how league finishes before provinces start which end before all Ireland series really kick into gear. That's a major fault as well.
Dublin shouldn't have to be split and they wont win continuously or near as much they have the past 5 years over the next couple of years as players etc move on.

Merging sides isnt the way forward and doesnt fix a lot of what are the major issues.

They dont. But it would be great for the sport if they were in with a reasonable shout every so often and had something to play for.
Ironically enough, nobody was making these arguments when dublin were getting financially doped to do just that... That is why these arguments about natural order of the sport, dont hold water. Really and truely, you would have to take back the money if you want to go down that route.

The Lost Sheep

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

They dont. But it would be great for the sport if they were in with a reasonable shout every so often and had something to play for.
Ironically enough, nobody was making these arguments when dublin were getting financially doped to do just that... That is why these arguments about natural order of the sport, dont hold water. Really and truely, you would have to take back the money if you want to go down that route.

that isnt hoe sport works and there is plenty that never will have chance at winning the top title in the sport and people should accept that that's why proper tiers with actual decent rewards for winning is what's needed. Not creating teams of multiple counties together. That just reduces numbers of players able to play inter county as well.

MayoAreMagic

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

that isnt hoe sport works and there is plenty that never will have chance at winning the top title in the sport and people should accept that that's why proper tiers with actual decent rewards for winning is what's needed. Not creating teams of multiple counties together. That just reduces numbers of players able to play inter county as well.

The nfl have this kind of ethos. In fact most sports are run using an ideal of fairness as the underlying criteria. E.g. home and away games, neutral venues, financial fair play etc.
Truth be told, the whole doping arrangment around dublin is a proper example of how sport is not supposed to work.

Re reducing numbers of players getting to play, the fact that you are against splitting dublin means that I wont even dignify that with a response.

The Lost Sheep

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

The nfl have this kind of ethos. In fact most sports are run using an ideal of fairness as the underlying criteria. E.g. home and away games, neutral venues, financial fair play etc.
Truth be told, the whole doping arrangment around dublin is a proper example of how sport is not supposed to work.

Re reducing numbers of players getting to play, the fact that you are against splitting dublin means that I wont even dignify that with a response.

Splitting Dublin doesnt help majority of counties it helps Kerry, mayo and he few other counties who are in and around the all Ireland final stage. Most counties dream of a run to 3rd/4th round of qualifiers. That for many is an excellent year. There needs to be tiers in the championship and allow more have genuine shot at success and reasonable targets to aim for.
You talk about fairness. Splitting Dublin isnt fair and to use words such as doping is outrageous.

MayoAreMagic

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Splitting Dublin doesnt help majority of counties it helps Kerry, mayo and he few other counties who are in and around the all Ireland final stage. Most counties dream of a run to 3rd/4th round of qualifiers. That for many is an excellent year. There needs to be tiers in the championship and allow more have genuine shot at success and reasonable targets to aim for.
You talk about fairness. Splitting Dublin isnt fair and to use words such as doping is outrageous.

You have stated this before. It has been addressed before, several times. Bottom line, its not true.
Re doping, spare yourself the faux outrage routine. It is financial doping. In fact probably the most blatent case of financial doping that has ever been. If anyone has cause to be outraged, it is the rest of the country. They arent though. They are just trying to make the thing a bit fairer for everyone. You seem to have an issue with giving people a fair chance

Higgins5473

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

You have stated this before. It has been addressed before, several times. Bottom line, its not true.
Re doping, spare yourself the faux outrage routine. It is financial doping. In fact probably the most blatent case of financial doping that has ever been. If anyone has cause to be outraged, it is the rest of the country. They arent though. They are just trying to make the thing a bit fairer for everyone. You seem to have an issue with giving people a fair chance

Have you read Spillane's piece today yet?

You're a broken record and very ill-informed at the same time. Worst combination possible.

Then there is the cost of inter-county training which is mind-boggling. Here are some of the headline figures from 2019. Remember these are the vouched expenses which probably don’t tell the full story.

In Munster, €7.94m was spent on inter-county training last year – 20 percent up on the 2018 figure. Four of the counties broke the €1m barrier.

All-Ireland hurling champions Tipperary led the way, spending €1.77m; followed by Cork €1.62m; Limerick €1.48m; and Kerry €1.38m – an increase of 34 percent on the 2018 figure, but the senior team featured in two All-Ireland finals last year.

Clare and Waterford both spent under €900,000, but their hurling teams failed to qualify for the All-Ireland series.

The odds are that all six counties will break the €1m barrier in 2020.

Other figures around the country are just as eye-popping.

Five-in-a-row winners Dublin spent €1.38m; Galway forked out a gigantic €1.61m even though neither their senior football nor hurling team made the business end of the All-Ireland series – the hurlers were actually eliminated in the Leinster Championship.

Mayo spent a whopping €1.68m, the vast bulk of which almost certainly went on the senior football team as their hurlers compete in the Nicky Rackard Cup.

https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/pat-spillane-wedding-chat-with-kerry-star-sums-up-just-how-ludicrous-the-inter-county-circus-has-become-38835114.html

[Deleted User]

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

They are just trying to make the thing a bit fairer for everyone. You seem to have an issue with giving people a fair chance

You have stated this before. It has been addressed before, bottom line is that it's not true.

The loudest voices clamouring for Dublin to be split are coming from the supporters of counties who stand to benefit the most. The spite and bitterness is evident.

You can dress it up as altruism all you want, truth be told you couldn't give a rats ass how much of a chance Wicklow have of getting out of Leinster*. You just want Mayo to win one AI, and that's OK. But just like splitting Dublin, it'll never happen.

*Ironically, splitting Dublin makes it even more difficult for this to happen.

[Deleted User]

Dots1982 wrote: »

Once in a lifetime generations are one thing.

An unbeatable team with 14 out of 15 provincial titles and no sign of the gap narrowing are quite another.

As Bambi pointed out, the Munster championship is, and has always been, an even bigger joke than the current Leinster one. Nobody cares though. Least of all Kerry who have been running roughshod over the 'competition' for over a century, having won more than 80 (including 9 outta the last 10, a run which includes the last 7 on the trot). Even their 'rivalry' with Cork is a farce: Kerry have the same number of All-Ireland's as Cork do Munster titles.

Where are the posts clamouring for this to be rectified? It's quite evident that Kerry need to be split for the good of the game, no?

Dots1982 wrote: »

Seems people are just scared of Cork and Kerry amalgamating even if it’s within the population range. It’s not Kerry’s fault they’ve fostered the best footballers over the past 100 or so years.

There's not a hope in hell anyone from Cork/Kerry would be on board with standing beside each other and cheering for a Frankenstein team made up of both counties. Same can be said for any Dublin/Fingal or North Dub/South Dub split that is being talked about.

Dots1982 wrote: »

Flip side of that coin is the only amalgamations I’ve seen dubs propose are ones that wouldn’t threaten Dublin.

Even Roscommon are too good to be merged apparently.

I only ever proposed amalgamations of counties as a stupid counterpoint to the ridiculous cries for a 'split'. Beause that's what it is, ridiculous and stupid. For the record, I'd fancy our chances against a Cork/Kerry hybrid team.

Higgins5473

Deleted User wrote: »

There's not a hope in hell anyone from Cork/Kerry would be on board with standing beside each other and cheering for a Frankenstein team made up of both counties. Same can be said for any Dublin/Fingal or North Dub/South Dub split that is being talked about.

Point is, as I said a few posts back, it's not being talked about except for here and a few lads crying into their pints in mayo. Its a non issue. Google it and the last commentary on it was from 3 years ago from McStay on a rant...enough said with that much.

MayoAreMagic

Higgins5473 wrote: »

Point is, as I said a few posts back, it's not being talked about except for here and a few lads crying into their pints in mayo. Its a non issue. Google it and the last commentary on it was from 3 years ago from McStay on a rant...enough said with that much.

Thats not actually true though. Ewan Mckenna has spoken about it often. It is colm orourkes goto response to questions about dublin and the future of the gaa. Plenty more too.
Some guys seem to want to push this world where nobody is bothered about it bar a few guys who just want their own county to win. Their mates back them up and it becomes a bit of an echo chamber, as can be seen on this thread. In reality, this is the biggest issue facing the gaa moving forward. Anyone who is any ways fair minded and forward thinking will recognise why that is.

Dots1982

Higgins5473 wrote: »

Point is, as I said a few posts back, it's not being talked about except for here and a few lads crying into their pints in mayo. Its a non issue. Google it and the last commentary on it was from 3 years ago from McStay on a rant...enough said with that much.

Yeah to be fair that simply isn’t true

Higgins5473

Sorry, I should have said it’s not really being talked about by anyone with any real credibility or listened to by anyone who gives a toss.

Dots1982

Higgins5473 wrote: »

Sorry, I should have said it’s not really being talked about by anyone with any real credibility or listened to by anyone who gives a toss.

Well that’s more like it but still wrong.

dunnerc

Dots1982 wrote: »

Well that’s more like it but still wrong.

Is it still wrong ? Care to explain

Dots1982

dunnerc wrote: »

Is it still wrong ? Care to explain

https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/meath-great-colm-orourke-wants-dublin-split-into-two-three-or-four-different-teams-36144723.html

dunnerc

Dots1982 wrote: »

https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/meath-great-colm-orourke-wants-dublin-split-into-two-three-or-four-different-teams-36144723.html

Ah so Colm orourke has an opinion , yep it has to happen so , this man has credibility , Jesus Wept :rolleyes:

Dots1982

dunnerc wrote: »

Ah so Colm orourke has an opinion , yep it has to happen so , this man has credibility , Jesus Wept :rolleyes:

So no dice with colm o’rourke who was probably the Game’s best player of the early 90s and has been paid for 25 years for his opinions on tv and as a columnist.

How about Joe Brolly? He is also arguing in the article’s video with Ciaran Whelan about Dublin’s advantages.

Kevin Mcstay also saying a Dublin has unfair advantages in the video in the article.

But all these people aren’t creditable .... but you are and who else is?

Higgins5473

Dots1982 wrote: »

So no dice with colm o’rourke who was probably the Game’s best player of the early 90s and has been paid for 25 years for his opinions on tv and as a columnist.

How about Joe Brolly? He is also arguing in the article’s video with Ciaran Whelan about Dublin’s advantages.

Kevin Mcstay also saying a Dublin has unfair advantages in the video in the article.

But all these people aren’t creditable .... but you are and who else is?

Article is from 3 years ago. As I said nobody is talking about it apart from one useless twitter hack who is pretty much a party piece that either gets ignored or the piss ripped out of him.

dunnerc

Dots1982 wrote: »

So no dice with colm o’rourke who was probably the Game’s best player of the early 90s and has been paid for 25 years for his opinions on tv and as a columnist.

How about Joe Brolly? He is also arguing in the article’s video with Ciaran Whelan about Dublin’s advantages.

Kevin Mcstay also saying a Dublin has unfair advantages in the video in the article.

But all these people aren’t creditable .... but you are and who else is?

Where did i mention Brolly or Mcstay ?

The_Honeybadger

There is no serious consideration being given to splitting Dublin. It would take a GAA president to push the agenda and the resistance would be vicious. Nobody with the nous to get themselves in to that position would be foolish enough to suggest it. Horan certainly isn’t going there!

Dots1982

Higgins5473 wrote: »

Article is from 3 years ago. As I said nobody is talking about it apart from one useless twitter hack who is pretty much a party piece that either gets ignored or the piss ripped out of him.

From 4 months ago

https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/colm-orourke-dublin-dont-get-enough-funding-but-county-still-needs-to-be-split-38509226.html

Higgins5473

Dots1982 wrote: »

From 4 months ago

https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/colm-orourke-dublin-dont-get-enough-funding-but-county-still-needs-to-be-split-38509226.html

Article you quoted is from 2017. This irrelevant nonsense is from 3 months ago.

dunnerc

Dots1982 wrote: »

From 4 months ago

https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/colm-orourke-dublin-dont-get-enough-funding-but-county-still-needs-to-be-split-38509226.html

Great footballer , entitled to his opinion , as everyone is !
My opinion is he is wrong , and Dublin should not be split

Dots1982

Higgins5473 wrote: »

Article you quoted is from 2017. This irrelevant nonsense is from 3 months ago.

You were incorrect when you said nobody creditable has said anything about splitting Dublin in the last three years?

dunnerc

Dots1982 wrote: »

You were incorrect when you said nobody creditable has said anything about splitting Dublin in the last three years?

So certain x GAA Players in your opinion are creditable ? And your opinion is correct of course :rolleyes:

Dots1982

dunnerc wrote: »

So certain x GAA Players in your opinion are creditable ? And your opinion is correct of course :rolleyes:

You seem to have drawn incorrect conclusions.

dunnerc

Dots1982 wrote: »

You seem to have drawn incorrect conclusions.

If you say so

Higgins5473

Dots1982 wrote: »

You were incorrect when you said nobody creditable has said anything about splitting Dublin in the last three years?

In your frantic search for a more recent article, you do realise your latest link is not an article, not any kind of journalism of any substance and is not a piece by colm o rourke? It is some titbit of muck he said at an event. Nobody is talking credibly about a split and there is nothing of substance published about a Dublin split in years. Not that there ever really was in all honesty.