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The case of the racist blackcurrant drink

Tipperary animal lover

https://twitter.com/EbunJoseph1/status/1211667276585406464

Racism alive and well in galway bay hotel where 50% of the staff are from other parts of the world, can someone explain how can a glass of ribena be misconstrued as racism, god help us in this little country entertaining race baiters like this. But looking at this ladies twitter feed she seems to find racism in everything irish. Happy new year to all boardies.

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[Deleted User]

Earthhorse wrote: »

Honestly, it feels like you're being quite pedantic here.

The opposite really. I am pointing out that what you think is "contentious" is actually your use of language making implications in the mind of others that you probably do not even intent to make. Calling a rare event "bizarre" when it is nothing more than a rare event risks making people think you are implying more than you might intent to imply. Especially on a thread where people are in some corners falling over to imply things.

Earthhorse wrote: »

You yourself describe the situation as weird but then take issue with my describing it as bizarre.

Not quite. I was starting from _your_ position with that language - then I worked it back. I used "weird" for the same reason you use the word "bizarre" with the intention of then walking back why it is the wrong word to use. I myself as I explained do not see it as weird or bizarre at all. Mistakes being made are normal. Mistakes in busy catering environment especially so. It is an industry rife with minor errors.

Earthhorse wrote: »

You were right the first time though; it is weird. It is unusual. It is strange. It is bizarre.

It really is not though. Mistakes happen all the time. Very much so in restaurants and hotels. It is very normal. Howrver the mistakes are _varied_. So while mistakes happen all the time - if you single out one single mistake out of the entire set then you are going to manufacture rarity and strangeness and oddity that is not actually there.

That is a human error to make though. Singling out events in isolation and then being struck by how weird and bizarre it _seems_ to us. It is the kind of thinking that makes people think - for example - they are psychic. When they think of an old friend they have not seen in 20 years and then suddenly that friend makes contact.

They think it is weird and bizarre too. It is neither.

Earthhorse wrote: »

The odds of an individual line or ticket might be one in ten million but the odds of someone winning are contingent

Exactly! Perfect. Now build on that. 1000s of people every day go to hotels and restaurants. 1000s every day make requests and orders. 1000s of staff execute those orders either directly - or by passing the request on through 1 or more other people. So the odds of an error being made is not small at all. They happen all the time. There is nothing weird or bizarre about it. Any one single error or error type however might be individually rare - but that makes it neither weird or bizarre.

Earthhorse wrote: »

If this is an "easy" mistake to make, given the number of pubs, hotels and restaurants in Ireland the rate at which we frequent them I would have expected to hear of such an incident prior to this.

And that expectation appears to be what is not warranted. Most people would forget such a minor and irrelevant incident as soon as it happens. Why would they even care - without an agenda like the woman in the OP has - to even mention it to anyone even if they did remember it? My experience getting potatoes for example - I had entirely and completely forgotten about it until this thread reminded me. I never had cause before - nor will I again I suspect - to mention it to anyone. Nor did I care to tell anyone on the occasions where I ordered one drink and got another by mistake. It happens.

Maybe the reason you do not hear about these incidents is not that they are not happening - but that no one for the most part gives a toss. Maybe the people permanently in a state of looking to be offended - so they can tell everyone about it - are a rare enough and recent new breed of idiot. One can just hope Natural Selection does it's thing on them and breeds them out.

dvdman1

Matter of time before they ask for the 1916 rising photos to be Photoshoped....as there too white for there liking.

Earthhorse

Kivaro wrote: »

Good God; you need to get a job or find something else to occupy your time.

This is not a Sherlock Holmes case; put away the magnifying glass.
The woman was served the wrong drink.
She apologised to the hotel and staff for her reaction to the simple mistake of getting the wrong drink.

It's a discussion he's participating in. We all are. There's disagreement, that's all, no one is trying to be "Sherlock Holmes".

Sober Crappy Chemis

Hope the hotel provided ketchup for her to dip that chip on her shoulder into...

Or maybe she would prefer ‘brown’ sauce ?

Kivaro

1641 wrote: »

And it is possible that this is what happened. But it does require a lot of coincidence. Mostly cordial is not served like this in a wine glass. But, in this specific case the order from the early pregnant woman came at approximately the same time as the order for the black woman, and the orders got mixed up and the blackcurrant was served in the wine glass to the black woman. It is possible but very coincidental and, at least, questionable.

Something like the bartender giving the server the blackcurrant cordial instead of the wine as some kind of joke is just as plausible - and doesn't require all these coincidences. It doesn't require conscious malicious intent on the part of the bartender - just stupidity.

Good God; you need to get a job or find something else to occupy your time.

This is not a Sherlock Holmes case; put away the magnifying glass.
The woman was served the wrong drink.
She apologised to the hotel and staff for her reaction to the simple mistake of getting the wrong drink.

1641

jiltloop wrote: »

There's a pretty simple and plausible explanation. She specified that she ordered a glass of house red, hotels and restaurants would quite often have their house wines in larger jugs or carafes. They sometimes also have cordial in carafes for visual purposes which could be easy to mix up during a busy serving time.

Do they ? I have never encountered this - certainly not in a hotel bar situation. Nearly any hotel, and certainly a 4-star one, will have a small selection of house wines - often 3 reds, 3 whites, and perhaps a rose and a prosecco. Pouring any of these into a carafe would firstly be very confusing for the bar staff. Which is the cabernet, which the merlot, etc? It would also be annoying for many customers. Some are happy to order the "house red" but many will specify a Cabernet (etc) and would not be happy to see it coming from a carafe. This would be very poor practice from a 4 star hotel.

That is not to say all customers would recognise the difference - but they want to see where it is coming from. The same way as they would not be happy to see their "small Paddy" coming from a generic carafe.

weldoninhio

katiek102010 wrote: »

She is now claiming AGS we wrong for attending the Red Cow last night and they caused it by so many being there.

She's a gowl

I hate when the Gardai show up at a peaceful event, and then you have to stab people.

Paddy Cow

looksee wrote: »

An argument that would not be allowed to hold up under any other AH circumstances (display wine bottles of Ribena, cluttering up the counter on a busy evening, contravening all sorts of h&s rules) is accepted as fact, because we don't like this woman so she could not possibly be right about someone having a dig at her colour. Even though we are agreed that if anyone needs a dig made at her, its this person.

But is wasn't accepted as fact. I and others questioned what a display bottle was because I'd never heard of blackcurrant being put in display bottles but apparently it's a thing.

1641

AulWan wrote: »

Haven't read the whole thread but I just had to roll my eyes at this.
As an aside, I've been in the company of women who have ordered non-alcoholic drinks and asked for them to be poured in wine or highball glasses - usually because they are in the early stages of pregnancy and don't want anyone to know they're not drinking!

And it is possible that this is what happened. But it does require a lot of coincidence. Mostly cordial is not served like this in a wine glass. But, in this specific case the order from the early pregnant woman came at approximately the same time as the order for the black woman, and the orders got mixed up and the blackcurrant was served in the wine glass to the black woman. It is possible but very coincidental and, at least, questionable.

Something like the bartender giving the server the blackcurrant cordial instead of the wine as some kind of joke is just as plausible - and doesn't require all these coincidences. It doesn't require conscious malicious intent on the part of the bartender - just stupidity.

gordongekko

I just had a look at her twitter feed. God my head hurts after it. She seems to find an issue in everything.

jiltloop

1641 wrote: »

Of course mistakes happen. Orders get mixed up - I've been on the receiving end and the serving end of such.

But this one needs some explaining. The most plausible one that comes to mind is that two seperate orders came at the same time - one including a red wine and one including a blackcurrant cordial - and the server then mixed them up. But this demands that the orders happened to come at the same time and that the bartender served up the cordial in a wine glass to a wine glass measure.

The alternatives proferred seem to be around cordial being stored in a wine bottle "for display purposes", and this display bottle then being left in the serving area. Having worked behind the bar for a number of years I do find this extraordinary. But that is not all. It then requires a bartender (usually not the most inexperienced casual staff) to mistakenly serve out the cordial instead of wine. Again, hard to imagine. Mistakes are more likely to be a white wine for a red wine, etc.

So maybe something like one of the above happened. But I find it at least as plausible that it was not a mistake but rather a misguided attempt at a pisstake.

At the same time I am keeping an open mind. But the general consensus throughout this thread is that no open mind is required. In fact at one point I thought there was going to be a collective orgasm of delight at this woman's discomfort. And there may have been a few premature ejaculations!

There's a pretty simple and plausible explanation. She specified that she ordered a glass of house red, hotels and restaurants would quite often have their house wines in larger jugs or carafes. They sometimes also have cordial in carafes for visual purposes which could be easy to mix up during a busy serving time.

An interesting detail would be whether the cordial that was served in the wine glass was diluted or undiluted. If it's undiluted I think that makes sense and that it was simply the mistake above. If it was diluted then that would be a little bit strange.

TwoMonthsOff

katiek102010 wrote: »

She is now claiming AGS we wrong for attending the Red Cow last night and they caused it by so many being there.

She's a gowl

Black Gemma O'Doherty

Canis Lupus

sbsquarepants wrote: »

Why do you think that?

Have you never had an order messed up in a pub or restaurant before?

You are missing the most plausible (by a considerable margin) explanation, i.e. it was not an extraordinary mistake, it was a run of the mill, mundane mistake, which would also likely have happened to at least another punter or 2 on that very day - they just didn't make twats of themselves in response to some imagined slight.

What i would have done is said "this is not what i ordered" and the situation would have been resolved inside a minute, no doubt whatsoever!

Well.... how often is ribena served in a wine glass to the correct wine pour line is what I'd ask.

I mean, I'm all a bit confused about the whole thing but that strikes me as quite a specific mistake, almost impossible for a bartender to do by mistake you might say.

beejee

road_high wrote: »

What is the PC term now? I guess Coloured or Darky currants is even more “offensive”?

A "currant of colour", or coc for short.

"I'll have coc juice, please"

Earthhorse

Deleted User wrote: »

The reason most of us never encounter weird mistakes is they are rare - and the reason many of us do not hear anecdotes about weird mistakes is most of the time the victim of the error does not try to make a fuss about it, they let it go, and they move on with their lives without thinking it worthy of mention.

...

Not sure it is contentious - just an odd use of language. When you said "an unlikely incident to occur" that seems accurate. That does not make it "bizarre" though. Unlikely things happen often and are not bizarre.

Honestly, it feels like you're being quite pedantic here. You yourself describe the situation as weird but then take issue with my describing it as bizarre. You were right the first time though; it is weird. It is unusual. It is strange. It is bizarre. These words are basically synonyms unless you want to reach dictionary definition levels of hair splitting which I hope you don't.

Deleted User wrote: »

For example - how many people have won the lotto jackpot? The odds last time I heard were 1 in 10 million to win it. Statistically almost no one seems to win or know someone who has won. It is a rare event. When it happens however it is not "bizarre". Just rare.

The odds of an individual line or ticket might be one in ten million but the odds of someone winning are contingent on the number of permutations covered by ticket purchases for that draw. So it isn't rare that someone wins the Lotto at all though it may be rare enough to know a winner yourself.

You sort of cut out the part in my post where I talk about not only my own experience, but the vicarious experience of people I know and of those who work in the hostelry trade. If this is an "easy" mistake to make, given the number of pubs, hotels and restaurants in Ireland the rate at which we frequent them I would have expected to hear of such an incident prior to this. But if it is such a rare event that none of us have encountered it before then it isn't an easy mistake to make.

Deleted User wrote: »

Under both of those I will not suspect foul play or ill intention until such time as foul play or ill intention is evidenced. Trial by social media is no trial at all. Worse than mob rule.

True. But the problem I have is with people being convinced they know what happened based on so little information. All we know is a really unusual event occurred. There are competing explanations for them; but some posters are absolutely convinced they know what happened and unwillingly to admit the other explanation is possible. I find such certainty in the light of little facts kinda worrying, particularly when it's such a trivial mistake.

Signore Fancy Pants wrote: »

Some here label the error of mistaking display bottles as "bizarre". Its not bizarre its plausable.

The use of cordial instead of wine as a racist attack is in actuality, bizarre.

Actually, I'm pretty sure I'm the only one who labeled it as bizarre (though I may be mistaken) but perhaps I should clarify. I find the situation bizarre.

We've all received drinks we didn't order, or not received drinks we did or been charged erroneously for something on the bill etc. But although I've received the wrong drink on occasion I've never received the wrong drink in the right glass. Never been served Guinness in a brandy glass or 7up in a teacup. If I had been I would have found it bizarre.

For the record, I find both explanations implausible (though obviously one of them, or some variant of one of them, is true).

katiek102010

She is now claiming AGS we wrong for attending the Red Cow last night and they caused it by so many being there.

She's a gowl

normanoffside

Raconteuse wrote: »

If a person asks for a red wine in a fancy place like that, they'll say they want a rioja or merlot or malbeck etc, not just "a red wine". And any auld buideal just being picked up would hardly happen.

She ordered a glass of house red. Nothing specific, a glass not a bottle. Says so herself.

Kermit.de.frog

suicide_circus wrote: »

To a man with a hammer, every problem looks like a nail.

Profound.

X111111111111

People like this woman do harm to the stopping racism movement.

[Deleted User]

i still cant believe that this thread isnt about the kia-ora ads from the 1980s

now *that* was some racist ****

debok

I find a lot if people that shout about racism are in fact racist themselves because all they think about us races.
Like to me if your **** your a **** doesn't matter what colour ya are

punisher5112

looksee wrote: »

Here we have a woman who people don't like because she is a loud-mouthed whiner. She also happens to be black and uses that fact to have an excuse to be a loud-mouthed whiner. I don't know anything about her but I will take that at face value.

A situation arises where she is served a glass of Ribena or similar blackcurrent drink in a hotel. Based on the fact that we don't like her it is assumed that obviously a genuine mistake was made by the hotel (ie one (possibly part time, temporary) barman).

An argument that would not be allowed to hold up under any other AH circumstances (display wine bottles of Ribena, cluttering up the counter on a busy evening, contravening all sorts of h&s rules) is accepted as fact, because we don't like this woman so she could not possibly be right about someone having a dig at her colour. Even though we are agreed that if anyone needs a dig made at her, its this person.

So if Gerry Adams went into a bar and was served shot glass of Irish cream and whiskey along side the Guinness that he ordered, it would obviously be an mistake and not a dig at him? Its an easy mistake to make, no?

What¿¿¿

Seriously like what¿¿¿

v638sg7k1a92bx

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

The answer is in the question.

Is that it, because the word black is in the name? I thought it was something like in the states where there is a stereotype that black people eat alot of chicken and watermelon but this is just ridiculous.

The Rape of Lucretia

Agustin Hundreds Celery wrote: »

Can someone explain the correlation between the B***Kcurrant and racism?

The answer is in the question.

v638sg7k1a92bx

Can someone explain the correlation between the blackcurrant and racism?

tabby aspreme

MMXX wrote: »

That certainly would not be a dig. It would be a very generous gesture, and one that I am sure Gerry would appreciate.

I know I certainly would.

Gerry would appreciate if you wouldn't use the word dig, in any conversation regarding him

10000maniacs

But when you put water into Ribena, it is red in colour.
I think its more likely they were being racist to eskimos if anything...... Or not.
I am glad it didn't snow this Christmas. We have enough snowflakes here already.

weldoninhio

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Is it any wonder though that we have such a nation of racists when Ribena is openly marketed and aimed at kids? Of course they grow up freely using the 'b' word and thinking b***kcurrant is an acceptable term in this day and age.
You will still even see grown adults ordering a Guinness with a dash of b***k current. Talk about b***k on top of b***k. How much b*****r than that can you get? The answer is none more b***k. Its appalling.

Blackcurrant is actually really, really,really, really,really, really,really, really,really, really,really, really,really, really,really, really,really, really,really, really, dark blue. Like a priests socks.

Signore Fancy Pants

Raconteuse wrote: »

If a person asks for a red wine in a fancy place like that, they'll say they want a rioja or merlot or malbeck etc, not just "a red wine". And any auld buideal just being picked up would hardly happen.

I think people here are just raging that not everyone is going "obvious mistake, the bitch!" when they know full well it's weird.

But I still think people who look for offence everywhere and insult entire countries, especially those where they make their home, are vile. It doesn't have to be just one stance or the other.

It may be "weird" to some people but that doesnt indicate racism. We have people here who have said they mistook or know people who have mistook the display wine for real wine. So it obviously does happen.

Your point about ordering a specific wine is nonsense. Is it impossible for a display bottle of red wine to be in a genuine rioja, merlot or malbeck bottle? No, its not impossible.

If she did ask for a specific red wine, she would have stated so and in my opinion this would have made her version more plausable but thats not what she claimed happened.

Anyway, we all have differing viewpoints but I think people are raging that false accusations of casual racism should not be let away with.

It is even more annoying when this person has a lot to gain from the situation as she is employed in this area. She is taking advantage of a business that fcuked up and leaving a stigma which may negatively effect its future reputation for her immediate gain.

This should not have happened at all but racism is doubtful.

The Rape of Lucretia

Is it any wonder though that we have such a nation of racists when Ribena is openly marketed and aimed at kids? Of course they grow up freely using the 'b' word and thinking b***kcurrant is an acceptable term in this day and age.
You will still even see grown adults ordering a Guinness with a dash of b***k current. Talk about b***k on top of b***k. How much b*****r than that can you get? The answer is none more b***k. Its appalling.