StupidLikeAFox wrote: » Games Development Funding in 31 counties is to promote the games across a county or section of the county. Games development funding in Dublin is to help employ full time coaches in their clubs - these are responsible for developing all levels of the club, not just juveniles as some people have incorrectly insinuated. There is a difference here - By the time a Dublin intercounty player is 18 he will receive many multiples of *professional* coaching hours compared to an intercounty player in any other county.
ArielAtom wrote: » This is the crux of the matter. It is your perception that Dublin are the problem. Mayo and Kerry have put it up to Dublin in recent AI finals. So the population argument falls there, funding as you keep denying has been for games development and not for the senior team. You can put forward flawed arguments about freeing up funds for same, but the fact of the matter is that games development funding is exactly that. You keep posting the same factually wrong argument.
StupidLikeAFox wrote: » Dublin should absolutely get the most money from the GAA - no issue there. Should they be getting the many multiples, over and above the next county? In my opinion they should not. I think they received 12 times more than the next county between 2007 and 2017. That is very disproportionate. We have the scenario where the richest team is getting the biggest leg up. Mental stuff. It doesn't take away from the incredible efforts of the Dublin team, management, volunteers etc but it still isn't fair. Do you genuinely believe any other team (outside maybe the top 3/4 teams) could negotiate the package Dublin have with AIG (+ others) if they got some "good staff"?
Dublin getting more from their sponsors is because their staff are good at what they do and they have been successful.
gaffer91 wrote: » The teams I was referring to in my last post were senior inter-county teams, my apologies, I should have made that more clear. Overall funding could indeed factor in population, playing numbers, historical funding and other things. Splitting Dublin will make other counties competitive as it will ensure there is still a meaningful competition for them to actually compete in. Dublin are getting more from their sponsors because they have the largest population and market.The real question is the Dublin problem and splitting them is the answer. There are other problems with Gaelic Football at present but nothing else even comes close. What needs to change for other counties is for Dublin to be split and other issues to be dealt with subsequent to that single, most important change.
blanch152 wrote: » Some counties will just waste the money anyway. Take a look at Mayo. In 2019 on a turnover of €3.5m, they spend half of that on the county teams. Half of all of Mayo's money got spent on the county teams, and they spend more on the county teams than any other county not in the hurling round-robin. The Mayo county board have no interest in player development. The foundation wants to spend money on a centre for youth development but the board want to splurge the money elsewhere. Why would you take money off a county like Dublin, which spends it wisely on games development and juvenile participation, and give it to a county like Mayo who fritter the money all away.
The Lost Sheep wrote: » how much of funding should be equalised. Bearing in mind size differences, playing number differences between counties? Dublin splitting will not make majority of counties any bit more competitive and in many respects makes many smaller counties life harder as a split Dublin side would still most likely be that bit stronger than them. Dublin getting more from their sponsors is because their staff are good at what they do and they have been successful. Wicklow and other weaker counties wouldnt have been near a super8s and splitting Dublin will not make it any easier. Suggesting Dublin be split is avoiding the real questions like why have so many counties who used to challenge stopped doing so and what needs to change within those counties be it underage squads, club level or anything else to see an improvement in senior inter county side
[Deleted User] wrote: » My point is that they do have those advantages over the 'smaller' counties. How much more funding do Mayo receive vs Roscommon? What about their population advantage vs Leitrim, or Kerry's sponsorship vs Laois sponsorship? All this "level playing field" is just a smokescreen for begrudgery at being left behind. It's harder for Mayo or Kerry to win an AI, but what about Wicklow? If Dublin were banned from next year's AI, what difference would that make to their chances of even getting to a QF? If you really wanted to make it fair, you'd split everyone on the same criteria. Instead, you just want to hobble Dublin so that the other contenders can catch up more easily. Like the other poster said, it's Christmas take a chill pill, have a drink. Every post you've made in the last 4 months was about Dublin. Take a break.
gaffer91 wrote: » Funding should be pooled and equalised regardless of any other changes. Current expenditure on teams could be looked at too to help level things somewhat, maybe after mileage, number of matches etc are accounted for. But Dublin would still need to be split. The residual effects of the financial doping for the last 15 years will last for years to come. Feel free to look up the answers yourself to the questions you have posed- what I will tell you is that Dublin receive significantly more than everyone else- both from the GAA, from the government and from their sponsors. This has been well documented on this thread and others so I'm not going to comb through it again for you. Combine this with their other advantages and it's obvious they need to be split. Also Dublin wouldn't be "banned", they'd be split. There would actually be more players from Dublin than ever before challenging for the All-Ireland. With Wicklow, splitting Dublin wouldn't help them getting to a quarter final as quarter finals don't exist anymore. But it may help them get to the super 8s for instance by ensuring that there is still a functioning competition for years to come. There won't be if the Dublin problem continues. Like I said before, it's the combination of funding + population + other advantages that mean Dublin need to be split four ways- not any of these things individually. EDIT: well the population alone is grounds for a split, but by itself, a two way split would probably be sufficient.
Deleted User wrote: » My point is that they do have those advantages over the 'smaller' counties. How much more funding do Mayo receive vs Roscommon? What about their population advantage vs Leitrim, or Kerry's sponsorship vs Laois sponsorship? All this "level playing field" is just a smokescreen for begrudgery at being left behind. It's harder for Mayo or Kerry to win an AI, but what about Wicklow? If Dublin were banned from next year's AI, what difference would that make to their chances of even getting to a QF? If you really wanted to make it fair, you'd split everyone on the same criteria. Instead, you just want to hobble Dublin so that the other contenders can catch up more easily. Like the other poster said, it's Christmas take a chill pill, have a drink. Every post you've made in the last 4 months was about Dublin. Take a break.
gaffer91 wrote: » This is how I relax.
gaffer91 wrote: » Kerry, Cork, Mayo or any other county don't have the unfair advantages that Dublin have.
EICVD wrote: » It’s Christmas, calm down
gaffer91 wrote: » So, like I said in my last post to you, your argument is that because one county board may or may not have wasted money, Dublin should be overfunded relative to everyone else, permanently? Got it. This includes being overfunded relative to competently run county boards as well. So we've established your argument is still absurd. The simple counterargument is: Mayo wasting money does not justify Dublin's .overfunding relative to everyone else, either now or in the past Dublin are being overfunded in 2019. Include sponsorship deals. Games Development funding needs to factor in long term averages too as a year or two of something approaching funding equalisation won't matter- the residual effects of the financial doping will linger for many years. Hence the urgency to split Dublin to help Gaelic Games.
blanch152 wrote: » This issue shouldn't be clogging up this thread, as there is a separate Dublin dominance thread, so this is my last contribution. The point I am making is that there are competent county boards like Dublin and completely incompetent county boards like Mayo. It is not a question of whether Mayo/Galway/Cork wasted money or not, it is a question of how badly did they waste money. Dublin are not being overfunded in 2019. The money they are now receiving in respect of games development is proportionate to the population in Dublin, as it should be for addressing juvenile participation. It is not the fault of the Dublin County Board, or the Dublin players, or the Dublin fans, that the Mayo County Board spends more on its county teams than any other county, which is half their income, and ignores juvenile development as a result. Even Tim O'Leary can see that the money is being wasted in Mayo. How can anyone say it is impossible to compete with Dublin, when you see the waste of money in places like Mayo?
Deleted User wrote: » Fixed your post there, chief. Here's an idea. If we're talking about splitting Dublin to even the playing field, why not go the whole hog and split it into 8 teams, Cork into 3, Kerry into 2 and Mayo into 2? I mean, you want to make it fair on everybody, right, not just 'fair' for the chasing pack.....correct?
gaffer91 wrote: » Have you any idea how ridiculous your argument is? Seriously. You're saying that because one county may or not have wasted money, it justifies Dublin being overfunded compared to everyone else in perpetuity? When they already have many other advantages? Absolutely absurd. If money was divided equitably, even if other counties did piss it away, it would still be fairer and better for the GAA in those counties than the status quo, where Dublin get the lion's share of money and everyone else gets much less.
gaffer91 wrote: » My only agenda is what is best for Gaelic Football. Dublin are the main problem and splitting them will help other counties Kerry, Cork, Mayo and Tyrone.......The likes of Wicklow and Sligo can go f*ck themselves. The Leinster championship is poor because Dublin are dominant built on a platform of ludicrous advantages unavailable to anyone else. Splitting Dublin is about ensuring the survival of the game at inter-county level fast-tracking the catching up that needs to be done by the other bigger counties, while hiding behind the facade of 'it's for the good of the game'. That's it. But a split will enhance the game within Dublin too.
The Lost Sheep wrote: » I saw what you said and it's clear you have an agenda I'm not from Dublin dont care about them Dublin are not at all the main problem and splitting them isnt going to help other counties. The all Ireland has always been dominated by a small number of sides.the leinster championship is poor. Standards have dropped. Teams not in or able to stay in division 1 of national league. Just weakening Dublin will not make standards of competition better. It's far more than that.
gaffer91 wrote: » Did you actually read anything I posted? You *immediately* bounced back in with "why not split Kerry" when I gave reasons then (and have done many times previously too) why the two are different. You didn't respond to any of the issues I raised either. Try to actually comprehend things before you come back blindly regurgitating the same tripe.i Splitting Dublin will help other teams by ensuring there is still a semblance of a competition to compete in rather than the uncompetitive farce which the All-Ireland is currently descending into. No-one will be watching in 10 years if things continue on their current trajectory. If you want to see the future of the All Ireland championship, look at the Leinster championship. There are other problems with the inter-county game but Dublin are the main problem. Nothing else even comes close. It's likely you won't read this post either but will come back with some combination of "no-one said anything about Kilkenny" or "Dublin have the best volunteers" or some other tired, debunked cliche.
The Lost Sheep wrote: » splitting Dublin will not improve the quality of teams that many counties produce but the Dublin sides would still be very strong so where do we see an improvement? Who wins from that? Dublin shouldn't be split. Should we then split Kerry because of their rate of success? You cant compare Dublin to most counties. Most counties never have been competitive at provincial level nevermind all Ireland. Dublin have lots of advantages because of population, playing numbers they would have regardless of any funding. That alone would make them stronger than a lot of counties. The inter county game is changing and Dublin being so strong as they are is far from the main reason the inter county game has major issues.
gaffer91 wrote: » The population alone is grounds for a split (albeit pre financial doping I'd have been in favour of a two way rather than a four way split) not more money. Dublin are overfunded even when the population is accounted for- per head of population, per registered player. So it's unfair whichever way you look at it. But you should already know this- it's been explained to you personally countless times already on this very thread. When reading a post (or indeed any article/ book/ opinion piece etc for your general reference), you should actually try to retain and analyse the information. It's ridiculous to say Dublin shouldn't be split in four. How I propose to do it is simple- split them in four. Use a combination of geography, population and playing numbers. How many times does it have to be explained about the Kerry/ Kilkenny comparison? It's not just the fact Dublin are winning, it's the fact they are doing it from an unfairly advantaged position. Please try to actually read and retain this information to stop you posting this nonsense once again. You say it isn't grossly unfair and then in the very next sentence acknowledge that Dublin have a lot of advantages. The direct contradiction is unbelievable. A split in Dublin absolutely would be terrific for the game, including in Dublin, for the reasons I explained in my last post. The inter- county game is slowly dying currently with reduced interest and attendances year on year. Also, you realise Dublin have already killed Leinster as a competitive competition? So if two Dublin subdivisions started dominating it would be a significant improvement compared to what the lie of the land is currently, where Dublin are strolling to victory every year.
The Lost Sheep wrote: » monies in the long term were unfair but when population of Dublin is as big as it is then it needs huge amount of games development funding While there should be some shared resources you cant simply say everything should be shared. .
The Lost Sheep wrote: » It's ridiculous to say Dublin should be split in 4. How do you propose to do that? Should Kerry because they dominate Munster so much and are as successful in all Ireland...
The Lost Sheep wrote: » it isnt grossly unfair. Yes Dublin have lot of advantages but they get best out of what they have. They run a very good ship which plenty other counties dont if we are being honest. A split in Dublin wouldnt be good for the game. What would happen if both Dublin sides started dominating leinster at least.
gaffer91 wrote: » The monies for game development were unfair and helped the senior team, no amount of deflection can change that. The population was always bigger and was such a statistical outlier that it alone was grounds for a split, never mind anything else. The sponsorship should be shared between all counties. It's a community sporting organisation with an amateur ethos. I have a structured away of dealing with the injustices- split Dublin into four teams, pool sponsorship money centrally and distribute evenly to all counties. I'll stop arguing the point when people stop posting the same debunked rubbish back to me.
Dots1982 wrote: » People from outside Dublin would be best to accept that this Dublin team is the closest thing to unbeatable you will ever see and just act accordingly: take up other pursuits that bring enjoyment if intercounty football doesn’t.
gaffer91 wrote: » It sounds easy because it is easy. Split regions can be organised by some combination of geography, population and current playing numbers per locality. The sponsorship could be pooled centrally and distributed equitably for all counties to benefit. Paying for the "systems" is easily surmountable- you just want it not to be because you want the current unfairness favouring Dublin to continue. Not splitting is what will kill the county game- it's obvious to everyone outside Dublin that the current state of affairs is grossly unfair and interest is waning correspondingly. And as I've explained to you before, a split would actually help the game in Dublin. Dublin derbies and more Dubs challenging for Sam Maguire are things most Dubs would quickly row in behind.
Fann Linn wrote: » I s'pose. They wouldn't be as fat as some other teams.
Fann Linn wrote: » Dublin players don't eat.
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