gaffer91 wrote: » Did you actually read anything I posted? You *immediately* bounced back in with "why not split Kerry" when I gave reasons then (and have done many times previously too) why the two are different. You didn't respond to any of the issues I raised either. Try to actually comprehend things before you come back blindly regurgitating the same tripe.i Splitting Dublin will help other teams by ensuring there is still a semblance of a competition to compete in rather than the uncompetitive farce which the All-Ireland is currently descending into. No-one will be watching in 10 years if things continue on their current trajectory. If you want to see the future of the All Ireland championship, look at the Leinster championship. There are other problems with the inter-county game but Dublin are the main problem. Nothing else even comes close. It's likely you won't read this post either but will come back with some combination of "no-one said anything about Kilkenny" or "Dublin have the best volunteers" or some other tired, debunked cliche.
The Lost Sheep wrote: » I saw what you said and it's clear you have an agenda I'm not from Dublin dont care about them Dublin are not at all the main problem and splitting them isnt going to help other counties. The all Ireland has always been dominated by a small number of sides.the leinster championship is poor. Standards have dropped. Teams not in or able to stay in division 1 of national league. Just weakening Dublin will not make standards of competition better. It's far more than that.
gaffer91 wrote: » My only agenda is what is best for Gaelic Football. Dublin are the main problem and splitting them will help other counties Kerry, Cork, Mayo and Tyrone.......The likes of Wicklow and Sligo can go f*ck themselves. The Leinster championship is poor because Dublin are dominant built on a platform of ludicrous advantages unavailable to anyone else. Splitting Dublin is about ensuring the survival of the game at inter-county level fast-tracking the catching up that needs to be done by the other bigger counties, while hiding behind the facade of 'it's for the good of the game'. That's it. But a split will enhance the game within Dublin too.
gaffer91 wrote: » Have you any idea how ridiculous your argument is? Seriously. You're saying that because one county may or not have wasted money, it justifies Dublin being overfunded compared to everyone else in perpetuity? When they already have many other advantages? Absolutely absurd. If money was divided equitably, even if other counties did piss it away, it would still be fairer and better for the GAA in those counties than the status quo, where Dublin get the lion's share of money and everyone else gets much less.
Deleted User wrote: » Fixed your post there, chief. Here's an idea. If we're talking about splitting Dublin to even the playing field, why not go the whole hog and split it into 8 teams, Cork into 3, Kerry into 2 and Mayo into 2? I mean, you want to make it fair on everybody, right, not just 'fair' for the chasing pack.....correct?
blanch152 wrote: » This issue shouldn't be clogging up this thread, as there is a separate Dublin dominance thread, so this is my last contribution. The point I am making is that there are competent county boards like Dublin and completely incompetent county boards like Mayo. It is not a question of whether Mayo/Galway/Cork wasted money or not, it is a question of how badly did they waste money. Dublin are not being overfunded in 2019. The money they are now receiving in respect of games development is proportionate to the population in Dublin, as it should be for addressing juvenile participation. It is not the fault of the Dublin County Board, or the Dublin players, or the Dublin fans, that the Mayo County Board spends more on its county teams than any other county, which is half their income, and ignores juvenile development as a result. Even Tim O'Leary can see that the money is being wasted in Mayo. How can anyone say it is impossible to compete with Dublin, when you see the waste of money in places like Mayo?
gaffer91 wrote: » So, like I said in my last post to you, your argument is that because one county board may or may not have wasted money, Dublin should be overfunded relative to everyone else, permanently? Got it. This includes being overfunded relative to competently run county boards as well. So we've established your argument is still absurd. The simple counterargument is: Mayo wasting money does not justify Dublin's .overfunding relative to everyone else, either now or in the past Dublin are being overfunded in 2019. Include sponsorship deals. Games Development funding needs to factor in long term averages too as a year or two of something approaching funding equalisation won't matter- the residual effects of the financial doping will linger for many years. Hence the urgency to split Dublin to help Gaelic Games.
EICVD wrote: » It’s Christmas, calm down
gaffer91 wrote: » Kerry, Cork, Mayo or any other county don't have the unfair advantages that Dublin have.
gaffer91 wrote: » This is how I relax.
[Deleted User] wrote: » My point is that they do have those advantages over the 'smaller' counties. How much more funding do Mayo receive vs Roscommon? What about their population advantage vs Leitrim, or Kerry's sponsorship vs Laois sponsorship? All this "level playing field" is just a smokescreen for begrudgery at being left behind. It's harder for Mayo or Kerry to win an AI, but what about Wicklow? If Dublin were banned from next year's AI, what difference would that make to their chances of even getting to a QF? If you really wanted to make it fair, you'd split everyone on the same criteria. Instead, you just want to hobble Dublin so that the other contenders can catch up more easily. Like the other poster said, it's Christmas take a chill pill, have a drink. Every post you've made in the last 4 months was about Dublin. Take a break.
Deleted User wrote: » My point is that they do have those advantages over the 'smaller' counties. How much more funding do Mayo receive vs Roscommon? What about their population advantage vs Leitrim, or Kerry's sponsorship vs Laois sponsorship? All this "level playing field" is just a smokescreen for begrudgery at being left behind. It's harder for Mayo or Kerry to win an AI, but what about Wicklow? If Dublin were banned from next year's AI, what difference would that make to their chances of even getting to a QF? If you really wanted to make it fair, you'd split everyone on the same criteria. Instead, you just want to hobble Dublin so that the other contenders can catch up more easily. Like the other poster said, it's Christmas take a chill pill, have a drink. Every post you've made in the last 4 months was about Dublin. Take a break.
gaffer91 wrote: » Funding should be pooled and equalised regardless of any other changes. Current expenditure on teams could be looked at too to help level things somewhat, maybe after mileage, number of matches etc are accounted for. But Dublin would still need to be split. The residual effects of the financial doping for the last 15 years will last for years to come. Feel free to look up the answers yourself to the questions you have posed- what I will tell you is that Dublin receive significantly more than everyone else- both from the GAA, from the government and from their sponsors. This has been well documented on this thread and others so I'm not going to comb through it again for you. Combine this with their other advantages and it's obvious they need to be split. Also Dublin wouldn't be "banned", they'd be split. There would actually be more players from Dublin than ever before challenging for the All-Ireland. With Wicklow, splitting Dublin wouldn't help them getting to a quarter final as quarter finals don't exist anymore. But it may help them get to the super 8s for instance by ensuring that there is still a functioning competition for years to come. There won't be if the Dublin problem continues. Like I said before, it's the combination of funding + population + other advantages that mean Dublin need to be split four ways- not any of these things individually. EDIT: well the population alone is grounds for a split, but by itself, a two way split would probably be sufficient.
The Lost Sheep wrote: » how much of funding should be equalised. Bearing in mind size differences, playing number differences between counties? Dublin splitting will not make majority of counties any bit more competitive and in many respects makes many smaller counties life harder as a split Dublin side would still most likely be that bit stronger than them. Dublin getting more from their sponsors is because their staff are good at what they do and they have been successful. Wicklow and other weaker counties wouldnt have been near a super8s and splitting Dublin will not make it any easier. Suggesting Dublin be split is avoiding the real questions like why have so many counties who used to challenge stopped doing so and what needs to change within those counties be it underage squads, club level or anything else to see an improvement in senior inter county side
blanch152 wrote: » Some counties will just waste the money anyway. Take a look at Mayo. In 2019 on a turnover of €3.5m, they spend half of that on the county teams. Half of all of Mayo's money got spent on the county teams, and they spend more on the county teams than any other county not in the hurling round-robin. The Mayo county board have no interest in player development. The foundation wants to spend money on a centre for youth development but the board want to splurge the money elsewhere. Why would you take money off a county like Dublin, which spends it wisely on games development and juvenile participation, and give it to a county like Mayo who fritter the money all away.
gaffer91 wrote: » The teams I was referring to in my last post were senior inter-county teams, my apologies, I should have made that more clear. Overall funding could indeed factor in population, playing numbers, historical funding and other things. Splitting Dublin will make other counties competitive as it will ensure there is still a meaningful competition for them to actually compete in. Dublin are getting more from their sponsors because they have the largest population and market.The real question is the Dublin problem and splitting them is the answer. There are other problems with Gaelic Football at present but nothing else even comes close. What needs to change for other counties is for Dublin to be split and other issues to be dealt with subsequent to that single, most important change.
Dublin getting more from their sponsors is because their staff are good at what they do and they have been successful.
StupidLikeAFox wrote: » Dublin should absolutely get the most money from the GAA - no issue there. Should they be getting the many multiples, over and above the next county? In my opinion they should not. I think they received 12 times more than the next county between 2007 and 2017. That is very disproportionate. We have the scenario where the richest team is getting the biggest leg up. Mental stuff. It doesn't take away from the incredible efforts of the Dublin team, management, volunteers etc but it still isn't fair. Do you genuinely believe any other team (outside maybe the top 3/4 teams) could negotiate the package Dublin have with AIG (+ others) if they got some "good staff"?
ArielAtom wrote: » This is the crux of the matter. It is your perception that Dublin are the problem. Mayo and Kerry have put it up to Dublin in recent AI finals. So the population argument falls there, funding as you keep denying has been for games development and not for the senior team. You can put forward flawed arguments about freeing up funds for same, but the fact of the matter is that games development funding is exactly that. You keep posting the same factually wrong argument.
StupidLikeAFox wrote: » Games Development Funding in 31 counties is to promote the games across a county or section of the county. Games development funding in Dublin is to help employ full time coaches in their clubs - these are responsible for developing all levels of the club, not just juveniles as some people have incorrectly insinuated. There is a difference here - By the time a Dublin intercounty player is 18 he will receive many multiples of *professional* coaching hours compared to an intercounty player in any other county.
StupidLikeAFox wrote: » Games Development Funding in 31 counties is to promote the games across a county or section of the county. Games development funding in Dublin is to help employ full time coaches in their clubs
RedDevil55 wrote: » Mayo receive less games development funding than Galway, Roscommon & Sligo and only slightly more than Leitrim despite the huge difference in population. Dublin are the only outlier when it comes to central GAA funding.
gaffer91 wrote: » Funding should be pooled and equalised regardless of any other changes.......Like I said before, it's the combination of funding + population + other advantages that mean Dublin need to be split four ways- not any of these things individually.
gaffer91 wrote: » Funding doesn't just include games development- why do you and other people who want to destroy gaelic games by leaving Dublin funding untouched always ignore the sponsorship funding?
RedDevil55 wrote: » No interest in player development?! Ffs. There are 4 full time coaches in Mayo and 2 part time. Mayo get 65k per year of games development funding which only covers 2 salaries. The county board has to find the rest of the money elsewhere. As you well know, Dublin receive 1.6 million per year from Croke Park, enough to pay around 50 full time coaches. Please leave mayo out of your rants in future.
gaffer91 wrote: » You know, this post actually does indicate you've at least read people's posts so I want to thank you and congratulate you for that- fair play. But it's not just my perception- it's the perception of most GAA members and supporters outside Dublin, and indeed many within Dublin too. The population argument doesn't fall at all- it's an unfair advantage. Dublin have more success than they otherwise would with a population that wasn't such a massive statistical outlier. Funding doesn't just include games development- why do you and other people who want to destroy gaelic games by leaving Dublin funding untouched always ignore the sponsorship funding? And we've shown that the Games Development funding does help the senior team- both by the diminished opportunity cost of other spending and also by the fact that human beings age with the passage of time (shocking stuff, I know). I will concede the games development doesn't just help the senior intercounty side- younger teams and Dublin clubs are doing much better than they previously had before the influx of funding. So my argument isn't factually wrong at all. Dublin GAA is favoured and unfairly advantaged compared to every other county. How do we mitigate these advantages? Simple, split them into four teams.
ArielAtom wrote: » I'm afraid that is where you are factually incorrect. I have been involved in a group that is now 2nd year minor. They have had in 12yrs approx 3hrs direct coaching from the GDO in the club. Their role is mostly taken up in coaching and developing in schools.
BarryD2 wrote: » Ah just let them at it Gaffer and they'll be bored after another 10 years or so.
blanch152 wrote: » A relative plays in a suburban Dublin club and will be minor next year. Each child is contributing €20 towards getting some S&C training. The GDOs are almost always in schools and very rarely in clubs. The clubs benefit by having kids get interested in schools and come along to the clubs at weekends.
blanch152 wrote: » Mayo spend by far the most on the senior inter-county football team. That makes the wasting of money relevant to them. At the same time, they have one of the worst county boards in the country, that makes the wasting of money relevant to them.
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