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India. weird or wonderful?

Letwin_Larry

I've always considered India to be a bit of a strange and interesting place, especially when it comes to crime & punishment, and attitudes towards women. and religion? i mean Gods that look like elephants?!! but this case shines a light on yet another of those crazy Indian situations.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/dec/06/indian-police-shoot-dead-four-men-suspected-of-hyderabad

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4Ad

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Went to Sri Lanka which people say is India-lite and it was great, but not that bothered with India. If I were to go, I'd rent a Royal Enfield and drive around the north for a few weeks, but I'd more likely go visit Nepal or Iran. India just sounds like it's a bit much.

I met lots of Nepalese people in India, so friendly and funny..
Cant wait to visit Iran I have only heard good things.
Hopefully in 2020...

Potential-Monke

I don't understand why people willingly travel to these countries and spend their money there with the reputation they have. Same with the UAE. I'll never visit these places on principle alone.

Calhoun

India in many way's reminds me allot like Ireland, both old colonies of the Britain and both have a fairly corrupt system of government in place from the perspective of political dynasty's. Both of our peoples go around the world for work.

One thing that kinda baffled me and is related to the above is how a country which used to be the Jewel in the British crown has such inequality and so much poor. One of my colleagues explained it that as money moves its way down from government everyone takes there piece before it trickles out.

How they deal with the issues of religion and equality of the sexes is also a contradiction. For the most part on a day-to-day from a religious perspective they are a melting pot and people of different faiths work and play together but they also have their flash points. They are also a very patriarchal society and women experience quite allot of sexism on a daily basis.

ILoveYourVibes

Letwin_Larry wrote: »

I've always considered India to be a bit of a strange and interesting place, especially when it comes to crime & punishment, and attitudes towards women. and religion? i mean Gods that look like elephants?!! but this case shines a light on yet another of those crazy Indian situations.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/dec/06/indian-police-shoot-dead-four-men-suspected-of-hyderabad

Firstly I know you mean to point out the ignorance of others towards women. But your post actually shows up a lot of your own ignorance.

Gods that are represented by elephants. Well Hinduism is an interesting religion..you ask a christian is your god real they will say 'yes'. You ask a hindu they will answer ..'that is an interesting question...there are many paths to god and we try to connect to them in a way that relates to us best. That isn't to say the god that doesn't look like an elephant isn't part of god its just harder for some of us to relate to ...so we choose the elephant ...some choose one of the other 333million hindu gods'.

Yes India is the rape capital of the world.

India is many places. Its a huge country. There is rich india ..middle class india ...and poor india. There are many different languages. Many religions.

It has huge issues with rape and sexual violence. The attitudes there are mirrored here also though...some reactions to the #metoo movement have been neanderthal. Or maybe that is an insult to neanderthals.

But insulting indian culture in the way the op has isn't really enlightened.

India is probably too diverse to put in a box. Its not like tiny Ireland.

It certainly has a long long way to come though in certain ways.

Yurt2

ScallionAyter wrote: »

I was there for a week. The roads are insane - lanes mean nothing to them. The thing i liked about the place was that there's no welfare state. People are up at the crack of dawn to sell flip flops at the side of the road.

They must think we're insane with our cradle to grave welfare system. We are.

I love it, so boards. A man visits a country where outside defecation and chronic absolute poverty is widespread, and his take-away is that the Irish social safety net is the problem.

I'm sure the roadside street urchins will flip-flop sell their caste and class into dignity.

ScallionAyter

Yurt! wrote: »

I love it, so boards. A man visits a country where outside defecation and chronic absolute poverty is widespread, and his take-away is that the Irish social safety net is the problem.

I'm sure the roadside street urchins will flip-flop sell their caste and class into dignity.

That's basically how it worked for the Irish when they emigrated to America. Started with nothing and worked their way up. It made them what they are now - one of the most powerful and wealthy voting blocks in the US. Outside defecation? I've seen worse in the local playground.

Time to force our able-bodied welfare scroungers into street cleaning duties, so they can work for their iPhone 8's and EP tickets.

partyguinness

I have never been but I have plenty of friends and family who have. Living and working in England I'd say at least 80-90% of my day to day clients are Indian and Pakistani.

My main takeaway from people who have lived and grew up there is that the place is serious hard work.

Corruption is rife and (Indians tell me this) nothing can be taken at face value- it is all about who paid the biggest bribe. And that is just India- Pakistan is that x 100.

It is a massive and diverse country and you would need at least 3-6 months traveling it to even scratch the surface.

CrankyHaus

ScallionAyter wrote: »

That's basically how it worked for the Irish when they emigrated to America. Started with nothing and worked their way up. It made them what they are now - one of the most powerful and wealthy voting blocks in the US.

The Irish aren't a voting block in the US, they're rarely courted with ethnic specific policies and their vote is fairly split.

The Irish notoriously filled public sector positions like police and firemen. The generation of Irish that reached the White House made their social ascent when the New Deal and its successors were expanding the role the state to an unprecedented degree. Granted for the Kennedy family itself smuggling booze was a big help in their ascent but even Prohibition was a state intrusion into the free market.

Far from your fevered Libertarian dreams, India has been a planned economy for most of it's post-independence history. Read up on the Licence Raj. Even after reforms in recent decades it maintains a level of government regulation, for instance in Labour Laws, unusual for a rising Asian economy.

LasersGoPewPew

I agree with the sentiments of other posters. I think India is beautiful, diverse, and culturally rich. Up north of the country is stunning, the food is amazing. I found the people to be very welcoming in most places. However the scale of poverty and the gap between rich and poor is criminal. Some Irish people think they have it bad, they should pay a visit to India and see what it's actually like to be poor.

Accepting Cookies

ScallionAyter wrote: »

That's basically how it worked for the Irish when they emigrated to America. Started with nothing and worked their way up. It made them what they are now - one of the most powerful and wealthy voting blocks in the US.

Since when are the Irish a powerful and wealthy voting block in the US, much less, one of THE most? Never heard of this, what's your source of information?

Muahahaha

Deleted User wrote: »

Went to Sri Lanka which people say is India-lite and it was great, but not that bothered with India. If I were to go, I'd rent a Royal Enfield and drive around the north for a few weeks, but I'd more likely go visit Nepal or Iran. India just sounds like it's a bit much.

I rented a Royal Enfield for a couple of weeks in northern India. They're a great machine and the scenery on the route between Leh in Ladakh and Sringar in Kashmir is absolutely stunning.

4Ad wrote: »

I met lots of Nepalese people in India, so friendly and funny..
Cant wait to visit Iran I have only heard good things.
Hopefully in 2020...

Iran is a great spot with very friendly people and superb food. Thinking of going back there next year myself. Absolutely filthy cheap too, you just couldnt spend money there if you tried.

[Deleted User]

partyguinness wrote: »

My main takeaway from people who have lived and grew up there is that the place is serious hard work.

Corruption is rife and (Indians tell me this) nothing can be taken at face value- it is all about who paid the biggest bribe.
.

Pretty much my experience of the place. Makes me extremely wary of mass immigration from there tbh. We have enough corruption and fought long enough for women's (and well, human) rights here to import stone age practices from elsewhere. I'd love to see it change but I don't see there's a societal movement for change there, unfortunately.

We aren't talking about minor corruption, it's a society based on the level you were born at and subjugating people "inferior" you. The infanticide of female babies there is gut-wrenching, sickening and inexplicable to me.

As pointed out earlier in the thread, some of these cultural norms still exist generations after migration, really makes you wonder about how they can be ended.

Sarahdunners

Did you think that Ireland had good attitudes to women?

[Deleted User]

Sarahdunners wrote: »

Did you think that Ireland had good attitudes to women?

No, not at all. We've fought long and hard for rights here.

Wibbs

Deleted User wrote: »

No, not at all. We've fought long and hard for rights here.

Oh god knows there was room for improvement alright, but comparing Irish culture and its attitudes to women even at the height of Catholic Ireland and India's attitudes to women right now in the 21st century, never mind in the past is like comparing a headache with a brain tumour.

Letwin_Larry

Wibbs wrote: »

Oh god knows there was room for improvement alright, but comparing Irish culture and its attitudes to women even at the height of Catholic Ireland and India's attitudes to women right now in the 21st century, never mind in the past is like comparing a headache with a brain tumour.

it seems to me that women/girls/females are considered little more than chattel within Indian society.
somebody please tell me i am wrong, and that females are greatly valued and revered.

i would love to be proven incorrect on this ...

Sarahdunners

Why do you think that up until recently - there were many countries around the world where women were treated badly?

It has been a very unfortunate part of our history.

Last summer, I visited a country - where women were not allowed to even enter restaurants or bars. I walked behind this woman - who had never been into a restaurant in her life - and I felt so deeply sad. It is her one precious life. I thought of all the things that she will miss out on and not experience. I just felt so sad about all the things that she would miss out on.

DrPhilG

Been to India 6 or 7 times now, and most of my thoughts have been covered by others here.

Roads are insane. Drivers don't give a hoot about rules of the road, you just go where you want. Overtake a lorry on the inside of a blind corner? Aye sure why not. Just lash hard on the horn and hope for the best.

5 people piled on a moped? Easy peasy.

Poverty is rampant and its everywhere. You could have a big swanky house with a 2 car garage, and then the next door neighbour has 8 people living in a shack the size of the average Irish bathroom.

Religion is a dominant force. And although we in the west always hear about the danger of Islamic extremists, in India the Muslims are in the same boat as the Christians in that they are both persecuted by the Hindus. In Northern states they can expect open violence, in the calmer southern States its a creeping persecution, shutting down of freedom of religion etc.

The Indian government have said that by 2021 they want the entire country to be Hindu only. A few years ago they banned any foreign charitable aid coming into the country if it was from Christian sources. Meaning that Christian charities who had been sponsoring and supporting children and entire communities were cut off instantly.

The caste system is horrible. The Dalit people are the lowest of the low and society is stacked against them making it even harder to escape or succeed. And going back to the religious aspect, I know a Christian man who provided charity to the local Dalit community for years, until the local Hindu leaders told him to stop or the next time he visited he would be beaten badly or killed.

Corruption is absolutely widespread. Its just part of society. If you want planning permission for a house etc, you go through all the official processes and paperwork etc, then you bribe the local officials to get it completed.

And the dirt, oh my goodness the dirt. The concept of a bin is completely foreign. Finished with food, just drop the rubbish. Literally drop it where you stand.

I've been to some beautiful beaches and tourist spots and swept back along the edge of the car park will be an absolute mountain of crap and rubbish.

One thing to note, although I agree that the treatment of women is appalling, India also has a major issue with wealthy men being basically kidnapped and forced into sham marriages. And I don't mean arranged marriages I mean grabbed off the street and forced under threat of violence to marry a woman, by her family. Once that happens the woman's family can demand a dowry for her or make the rich guy pay a fortune to escape the legally binding deal.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groom_kidnapping

Cody montana

I was there a few weeks ago.
It’s a wonderful place.