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NBP part II

oscarBravo

The old NBP thread had hit the 10,000-post threshold that makes the boards.ie hamsters cry, so here's a shiny new one.

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The Cush

Marlow wrote: »

And then there is the next culprit: what makes you believe, that Eir is going to offer service on NBIs NBP infrastructure ?

Eir do not operate on SIRO, they do not use the government MANs. They matter of fact do not use any third party networks AT ALL. Only their own fibre.

So the chances of you being able to get fibre service of them in the NBP infrastructure is zilch, nada, bogus.

My thinking is they will be available over NBI's network or lose out on a potential half a million customers.

In SIRO areas they currently have a parallel high speed copper network offering FTTC which will be upgraded to fibre in due course, an option not available in rural areas.

tsue921i8wljb3

The Cush wrote: »

My thinking is they will be available over NBI's network or lose out on a potential half a million customers.

In SIRO areas they currently have a parallel high speed copper network offering FTTC which will be upgraded to fibre in due course, an option not available in rural areas.

If they don't extend their own rural network of course they will sell on the NBI network. It is nonsense to suggest otherwise. I'm pretty sure Carolan Lennon even said as much.

Poulgorm

OpenEir, with their FTTH 330,000 rural rollout, have passed a lot of properties on FTTC: if the FTTC speed was a minimum of 30 Mb/s, these houses were not offered FTTH - even though the new fibre cable was passing their door.

Will OpenEir return and "backfill" those premises, over the next few years?

Or will these households have to wait for the government scheme to roll out?

Or will they not be included in either scheme, as 30 Mb/s is regarded (quite incorrectly) as fast broadband?

30 Mb/s is adequate if there is only a single user in a property, but not if there are multiple users.

tsue921i8wljb3

Poulgorm wrote: »

OpenEir, with their FTTH 330,000 rural rollout, have passed a lot of properties on FTTC: if the FTTC speed was a minimum of 30 Mb/s, these houses were not offered FTTH - even though the new fibre cable was passing their door.

Will OpenEir return and "backfill" those premises, over the next few years?

Or will these households have to wait for the government scheme to roll out?

Or will they not be included in either scheme, as 30 Mb/s is regarded (quite incorrectly) as fast broadband?

30 Mb/s is adequate if there is only a single user in a property, but not if there are multiple users.

A lot of these premises are essentially in limbo now. They are neither in the NBP nor open eir's urban FTTH plan. I don't know what is going to be done with them but whatever it is it will not be happening any time soon.

clohamon

Poulgorm wrote: »

OpenEir, with their FTTH 330,000 rural rollout, have passed a lot of properties on FTTC: if the FTTC speed was a minimum of 30 Mb/s, these houses were not offered FTTH - even though the new fibre cable was passing their door.

Will OpenEir return and "backfill" those premises, over the next few years?

Or will these households have to wait for the government scheme to roll out?

Or will they not be included in either scheme, as 30 Mb/s is regarded (quite incorrectly) as fast broadband?

30 Mb/s is adequate if there is only a single user in a property, but not if there are multiple users.

The backfill looks arbitrary. Here's a row of houses near Ventry. First is the original 300K and the other after the extra 30K

jeepster_ie

Marlow wrote: »

And then there is the next culprit: what makes you believe, that Eir is going to offer service on NBIs NBP infrastructure ?

I used eir as an example for a larger provider, wasnt talking about them specifically. Ultimately its a business decision for them but they either totally wave bye-bye half a million potential customers or the spend their own money on extending out their existing rural fibre infrastructure. I can't see how either of these options is acceptable to a private company.

As for the pricing, your dead right with the current pricing. But if eir were to offer their services on the NBI infrastructure then they have more scope to squeeze on the smaller competition with reduced pricing like they have done before - if they choose to.

When I get my FTTH connection next year I wont be touching eir with a bargepole. My plan is to go with a smaller provider. The more competition the better. I just cant see all the existing smaller providers surviving unfortunately

allanpkr

im not sure the nbp was needed cause eir or any major player didnt want to take ftth if it was a little more expensive in parts of rural ireland . i personally wouldnt go with eir if they gave it to me. its not just about price , aftercare is everything to me. and complaining to eir is beyond a joke to get them to do anything to help.
westnet for me , looked after me for yrs, always helpful always prompt. they deserve my money.

westyIrl

allanpkr wrote: »

im not sure the nbp was needed cause eir or any major player didnt want to take ftth if it was a little more expensive in parts of rural ireland . i personally wouldnt go with eir if they gave it to me. its not just about price , aftercare is everything to me. and complaining to eir is beyond a joke to get them to do anything to help.
westnet for me , looked after me for yrs, always helpful always prompt. they deserve my money.

Is there a reason you don't use capital letters? It makes your posts extremely difficult to read.

allanpkr

westyIrl wrote: »

Is there a reason you don't use capital letters? It makes your posts extremely difficult to read.

really? Really? your little dig today..lol. extremely difficult, i cant believe that,, but to keep the peace im sorry.

westyIrl

allanpkr wrote: »

really? Really? your little dig today..lol. extremely difficult, i cant believe that,, but to keep the peace im sorry.

Just letting you know it's difficult to read and was curious if there was a reason. It wasn't meant as a dig at all. I'm sorry if you took it up that way.

allanpkr

westyIrl wrote: »

Just letting you know it's difficult to read and was curious if there was a reason. It wasn't meant as a dig at all. I'm sorry if you took it up that way.

well to be honest with my big finger and my crap tablet it takes me long enough just hitting right letter , which i often dont , so putting in caps would make me throw this tablet across room.

tsue921i8wljb3

I don't think this was posted, apologies if it has been, but here is the press release from yesterday's announcement. An interesting line in it is:

Primarily FTTH will be deployed, with in the order of 2% of premises via a high standard wireless connection which will also be upgraded over time.

Better than 5% anyway.

There is also a full list of the BCPs at the end.

https://www.gov.ie/en/press-release/e15062-high-speed-broadband-for-11m-people-in-homes-schools-businesses-acro/

Johnboy1951

Yeah, I had a look for the community centres and such places they promised ........ yeah, right ...... one community centre and one lighthouse and the rest national schools here it seems.
Not what one might call useful to the general population .... but it is good to see the schools being a priority.

Idbatterim

RIght. So they commit to Spendimg three billion plus. And expect whatever amount of customers. I see a flaw in their plan , do they think the takeup will be large , when you can now get 4g wireless for ten euro a month and no doubt 5g at that cost too In a few years ?! If they think all these houses will pay e50-60 month plus got bruadband , they are wrong. Of course wireless broadband won’t be an option for everyone. But not everyone needs the speed to stream ten 4K Netflix streams simultaneously...

Gonzo

Idbatterim wrote: »

I see a flaw in their plan , do they think the takeup will be large , when you can now get 4g wireless for ten euro a month and no doubt 5g at that cost too In a few years ?!

4g mobile for a tenner a month (GoMo) is in no way a home broadband solution. It is limited at 80 gigs per month, a family would blow through that in less than a week if they had to rely on that for everything.

5g is not rural friendly, it is expensive and lots more towers would be needed to get decent 5g coverage all over rural Ireland. 5g is really for urban areas.

Wireless is in no way a solution for any proper future proofednetwork, it is too patchy, has limited data and still prone to all sorts of line of sight and distance problems. See the Imagine thread to find out how wonderful wireless is.

Pique

Idbatterim wrote: »

RIght. So they commit to Spendimg three billion plus. And expect whatever amount of customers. I see a flaw in their plan , do they think the takeup will be large , when you can now get 4g wireless for ten euro a month and no doubt 5g at that cost too In a few years ?! If they think all these houses will pay e50-60 month plus got bruadband , they are wrong. Of course wireless broadband won’t be an option for everyone. But not everyone needs the speed to stream ten 4K Netflix streams simultaneously...

Where did you come from? It's a max of €2.6Bn, over 25 years of the network

My 4g wireless last night was about 0.5 Mbps. Right now, at about half past midnight it's 4.5 Mbps.

5G needs fibre-fed towers a couple of hundred meters apart. How many of them and how much fibre runs, site purchases, planning permissions, "5G is the devil incarnete' protests are you gonna deal with?

Varik

Only so much they can do but it's crazy looking at the map, you see the tendril of eirs rural fibre sprawling out from villages and towns but then in the actual built up areas you've large swaths of orange if you go too far into a development.

Currently i'm 1 house too far for Virgin and 100m too far for the Eirs rural FTTH.

westyIrl

Emmanuel Lemon Louse wrote: »

I don't think this was posted, apologies if it has been, but here is the press release from yesterday's announcement. An interesting line in it is:

Better than 5% anyway.

There is also a full list of the BCPs at the end.

https://www.gov.ie/en/press-release/e15062-high-speed-broadband-for-11m-people-in-homes-schools-businesses-acro/

I got this impression from listening to Peter Hendrick over the past few days too. He was of the view that they would want to supply fiber to whoever needed it. I'm sure it won't work out 100% that way but it is a good indication of intent.

BobMc

I think take up will be fairly significant I consider good reliable fast broadband as a must have utility the same as I consider electricy, besides entertainments, its used for a multitude of other important household items, The younger generations and those with young families etc will see its advantage, my own older parents see its advantage with FTTH being installed this week (lucky buggers)

Marlow

Emmanuel Lemon Louse wrote: »

If they don't extend their own rural network of course they will sell on the NBI network. It is nonsense to suggest otherwise. I'm pretty sure Carolan Lennon even said as much.

It is more likely that they extend their network to the 100k+ premises they identified as commercially viable and forget about the remainder.

Take up on the existing FTTH networks is 10-15% at best. So the NBP may not see much more initially. It has had more media coverage, but as the pricepoint is higher than existing networks, that may hamper it.

So from the view of Eir retail, that is a potential 50k customers in the first 3-4 years. Customers that they more than likely don't have in the first place. So with them also owning Eir mobile, they have bigger fish to fry.

If they were bothered about those 540k, they would not have left the NBP bidding process. And to start selling through a third party network would be a massive and progressive change in policies. Something eircom plc (eir and OpenEir) not precisely is known for.

It is more likely that Virgin starts selling on SIRO and the NBP infrastructure, than that Eir retail ever will consider it. Eircom PLC already makes money from pole rental etc. One more reason, they aren't bothered.

And on Virgin .. it was actually leaked in September, that they are considering SIRO: https://www.irishtimes.com/business/technology/virgin-media-may-hook-up-with-siro-to-bring-broadband-to-rural-areas-1.4031691 .. that is a massive step for Virgin. It would even be a bigger step for Eir to offer services using any third party network.

/M

tsue921i8wljb3

More unfounded speculation and figures that you can't know. All that the Virgin anecdote shows is that companies adapt to their best interests. If eir feel it is in their commercial interest they'll join. To say there is zilch, nada chance is nonsense.

Marlow

The majority of this thread is speculation. Simply because the information is not available.

But history tends to repeat itself.

/M

tsue921i8wljb3

Marlow wrote: »

The majority of this thread is speculation. Simply because the information is not available.

But history tends to repeat itself.

/M

I suppose we'll see in time what unfolds.

Mortelaro

I emailed the department regarding my issue
No reply 2 days later

Gary kk

Marlow wrote: »

Take up on the existing FTTH networks is 10-15% at best. So the NBP may not see much more initially. It has had more media coverage, but as the pricepoint is higher than existing networks, that may hamper it

/M

To be fair I would get a lot more from eir for the same price I pay my current provider.

And sure up take will increase.

ussjtrunks

What about houses with old ducts etc that go through fields, mine seems to go underground for 200-300 metres because of electricity wires. Does that make an install much harder, should I look into getting it cleaned or would the people laying the fibre do that?

heavydawson

ussjtrunks wrote: »

What about houses with old ducts etc that go through fields, mine seems to go underground for 200-300 metres because of electricity wires. Does that make an install much harder, should I look into getting it cleaned or would the people laying the fibre do that?

Highly unlikely they'll clean it. I would start looking at getting it done yourself.

tsue921i8wljb3

I have a list of what I believe are NBI OLT locations. This is comparable to the eir exchange and it is where the fibre runs for a given area will start. I think the closer you are to one of these locations the quicker you are likely to be connected when they start building. There are 227 locations in total, too many to put in a table here so I made a spreadsheet.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/11hSbc0gWICHmVIVuXsN9myxoHnaZUwj1N96sBQdyqFQ/edit?usp=sharing

heavydawson

Marlow wrote: »

It is more likely that they extend their network to the 100k+ premises they identified as commercially viable and forget about the remainder.

Take up on the existing FTTH networks is 10-15% at best. So the NBP may not see much more initially. It has had more media coverage, but as the pricepoint is higher than existing networks, that may hamper it.

So from the view of Eir retail, that is a potential 50k customers in the first 3-4 years. Customers that they more than likely don't have in the first place. So with them also owning Eir mobile, they have bigger fish to fry.

If they were bothered about those 540k, they would not have left the NBP bidding process. And to start selling through a third party network would be a massive and progressive change in policies. Something eircom plc (eir and OpenEir) not precisely is known for.
...
/M

I think they left the NBP because of the cost outlay in terms of the build-out (and new wholesale division, etc.), not because they didn't care about the 504k potential customers. Eir are part infrastructure company, part service provider (broadband/tv). The service provision side of the company absolutely will want their piece of a market of 504k potential customers. They've been touting the fact they're trying to catch up to Vodafone in terms of national coverage. (https://www.siliconrepublic.com/comms/eir-mobile-network-investment-ireland-4g-5g)
In that respect, they're going to be looking to sell mobile along with tv and broadband across the country, and sell hard.

tsue921i8wljb3

ussjtrunks wrote: »

What about houses with old ducts etc that go through fields, mine seems to go underground for 200-300 metres because of electricity wires. Does that make an install much harder, should I look into getting it cleaned or would the people laying the fibre do that?

Apparently ducting will be included in the connection fee up to €5k I think but that will likely delay your installation so if you can get it repaired relatively cheaply I'd do that.