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Cork developments

snotboogie

I noticed that the Limerick equivalent is a very popular thread over on their forum so I thought I might get one going here. To kick things off I'll list the bigger current projects I can think of:

Under Construction

Navigation Square: Four building office development on the former Navigation House site on Albert Quay. 310,000 sq ft of office space for up to 3000 employees. First phase to be completed Feb 19'

89-90 South Mall: 50,000 sq ft office, 5 storey office building.To be completed in December 18'

Dalata Hotel South Mall: Six storey hotel, 165 beds. To be completed in December 18'

Various Student Accommodation: Western Road and Beamish site are under construction, Crows Nest has planning and should start soon, Square Deal is facing appeals, Coca-Cola site on the Carrigrohane Road has had planning for over a year but nothing has happened? O’Riordans Joinery, Gillen House on Farranlea Road, Model Farm Road/Melbourne Road and Copely Street are all at various stages of planning and/or limbo.

Planning/Appealed

Horgan's Quay: Office Space for 5,000 employees, 200 apartments, 136 bed hotel and 3000 sq metres of restaurants and retail. Got planning permission in March but it was appealed by Port of Cork. Uncertain when the final decision will be. Construction on the Hotel will hopefully begin in Q4 this year with the office and apartments commencing in 2019.

Sullivan's Quay: 6 storey Office & 193 bed 4 star Hotel. Planning granted and immediately appealed. Given that demolition is nearly complete I'd expect this to go into construction as soon as planning is granted. Potential hold up over the height of the hotel, at 12 storeys and 47 metres, it is set to make the top 20 tallest buildings in the state if completed. An Taisce not happy.

Former Victoria Hotel: Knocking much of the Victoria and rebuilding to the back and refurbishing the original historic front/facade and to integrate the two sections into a new high order retail unit, of 25,000 sq ft, over four floors. Rumoured to be taken over by Zara. Planning granted in Feb, nothing happened on site since.

Metropole Redevelopment: €50m redevelopment of the Metropole Hotel to include a new five-storey boutique hotel on Patrick's Quay. Planning granted with amendments in March. No date for work to start.

Wilton Shopping Centre: €100 million revamp proposed. Mistake made in planning permission. In the process of resubmitting.

In Limbo

Event Centre: 6000 all seater multi purpose event centre with a tourist brewery experience. Arguably the most controversial construction project in the history of the city. After a bleak 6 months at the back end of 2017 there have been two instances of positive murmurs from the Government and BAM in January 2018 and April 2018. Construction allegedly to start in Q4 2018 but there are still conflicting and contradictory statements from all parties involved. Most would be shocked to see this start in 2018.

Anderson Quay/Camden Quay/Trinity Quarter: All have had planning for years with no work on site. Camden Quay allegedly had some work going on last week but I'd be shocked if it was related to the actual construction. I can't see any of these sites being developed as per their current proposals.

Concept/Pre Planning

Docklands Tower: 40 storey mixed use tower with the redevelopment of the existing customs house warehouses into cultural, tourist and retail space. By a mile the most ambitious development in Ireland. Announced over one year ago and no sign of a planning permission application yet, allegedly waiting for the Docklands development plan this summer to rezone heights for the site. If we don't see a planning application by the end of the year I'd be worried.

Ford Distribution Depot: Put on sale last week. Former site of the extremely ambitious Atlantic Quarter. Major development opportunity

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hans aus dtschl

Flesh Gorden wrote: »

Speaking of Little Island, did the upgrades and widening of the roads either side of An Crompán roundabout generally sort out the gridlock?

I know there was an issue with the lights from the graveyard direction not changing and they didn't bother to put signs up about the changes to the lanes.

But other than that, I don't really hear anymore about the gridlock that was the norm down there every weekday, due to the previous bottlenecks.

Big changes. I have been quite surprised by the difference. I would say that traffic is slightly better now than it was in February. Certainly a massive difference from March/April during the works.

In the morning, the queuing Eastbound on the N25 has been replaced by queuing Westbound on the N25. There are now regular queues on the Old Youghal road, but those are by design. Unfortunately people sometimes drive out around the new median traffic islands and play chicken with oncoming vehicles in order to skip traffic and go straight on. General consensus is that traffic is a bit better in the mornings I think.

In the evening I haven't left from every industrial estate on the island during rush hour yet, but I can say that Eastgate flows much better, Euro Business Park is about the same, Sitecast Industrial Estate got worse initially but I suspect is more back to normal now. General consensus is traffic is a little bit better in the evenings I think.

In terms of sustainable transport, bus and train haven't changed and from what I can see almost all cyclists now use the footpath, which pedestrians don't tend to step down off from what I've seen. Still no accidents yet thankfully. So general consensus is worse for sustainable transport overall, but that was as expected, so no surprises there.

Important to note, with the above: a lot of companies which were badly affected during the disruption now have different work practices in place permanently, which is a big help. No way of knowing if these changes on their own would have had as big an effect without the new road lanes though. And the companies would probably not have made any changes without the works being done either.

The next step for this junction will be signalisation of the Crompán roundabout, but no schedule for that as it stands.
There's strong motivation against a new Eastern junction onto the island, from the NTA.
The Dunkettle Interchange scheme sees a new Western junction onto the island.
There will be no dedicated pedestrian bridge, or new or upgraded infrastructure on the island itself for the foreseeable future (bus lanes, cycle lanes, footpaths).
Buses will not be brought off the Old Youghal Road, up the slip ramp for the foreseeable future.
There have been discussions about improvements to bus and train schedules but I'm not privy to the outcomes of those.

marno21

Three fellas out in high vis Sisk jackets at the Crows Nest when I passed this morning. No actual construction work to be seen from the exterior yet

D'Agger

hans aus dtschl wrote: »

Big changes. I have been quite surprised by the difference. I would say that traffic is slightly better now than it was in February. Certainly a massive difference from March/April during the works.

In the morning, the queuing Eastbound on the N25 has been replaced by queuing Westbound on the N25. There are now regular queues on the Old Youghal road, but those are by design. Unfortunately people sometimes drive out around the new median traffic islands and play chicken with oncoming vehicles in order to skip traffic and go straight on. General consensus is that traffic is a bit better in the mornings I think.

In the evening I haven't left from every industrial estate on the island during rush hour yet, but I can say that Eastgate flows much better, Euro Business Park is about the same, Sitecast Industrial Estate got worse initially but I suspect is more back to normal now. General consensus is traffic is a little bit better in the evenings I think.

In terms of sustainable transport, bus and train haven't changed and from what I can see almost all cyclists now use the footpath, which pedestrians don't tend to step down off from what I've seen. Still no accidents yet thankfully. So general consensus is worse for sustainable transport overall, but that was as expected, so no surprises there.

Important to note, with the above: a lot of companies which were badly affected during the disruption now have different work practices in place permanently, which is a big help. No way of knowing if these changes on their own would have had as big an effect without the new road lanes though. And the companies would probably not have made any changes without the works being done either.

The next step for this junction will be signalisation of the Crompán roundabout, but no schedule for that as it stands.
There's strong motivation against a new Eastern junction onto the island, from the NTA.
The Dunkettle Interchange scheme sees a new Western junction onto the island.
There will be no dedicated pedestrian bridge, or new or upgraded infrastructure on the island itself for the foreseeable future (bus lanes, cycle lanes, footpaths).
Buses will not be brought off the Old Youghal Road, up the slip ramp for the foreseeable future.
There have been discussions about improvements to bus and train schedules but I'm not privy to the outcomes of those.

This is pretty much on the money - there's been a big change to traffic volumes but I would say that the businesses in Eastgate employing flexi time has been the biggest factor, it's led to a slow bleed of traffic rather than a hemorrhage at 5pm every day. The only thing I could think of to improve uptake of train/bus services is a coke zero bike scheme equivalent being introduced but this isn't likely - it's not in the city and unless the business come together and sponsor it (which would be a huge undertaking/headache to maintain), it won't happen because the county council only give a shít about rates it seems.

snotboogie

marno21 wrote: »

Three fellas out in high vis Sisk jackets at the Crows Nest when I passed this morning. No actual construction work to be seen from the exterior yet

Starting this month

kub

Construction workers have begun working on the Rochestown Inn, does anyone know is it being renovated or what ?

TheChizler

Gastropub is what I'm told.

Outkast_IRE

D'Agger wrote: »

it won't happen because the county council only give a shít about rates it seems.

The council will barely cut the grass in little island, in the public areas. Its probably their biggest revenue earner per m2 along with Ringaskiddy yet they wont do a tap on the island.

hans aus dtschl

D'Agger wrote: »

This is pretty much on the money - there's been a big change to traffic volumes but I would say that the businesses in Eastgate employing flexi time has been the biggest factor, it's led to a slow bleed of traffic rather than a hemorrhage at 5pm every day. The only thing I could think of to improve uptake of train/bus services is a coke zero bike scheme equivalent being introduced but this isn't likely - it's not in the city and unless the business come together and sponsor it (which would be a huge undertaking/headache to maintain), it won't happen because the county council only give a shít about rates it seems.

NTA have said that there will be no central funding of a bike scheme for Little Island, "unless local businesses do it themselves".
The NTA are investigating the possibility of the provision of a bike rack in Little Island train station. Look forward to that announcement.

They're aware that cyclists are mostly using the footpath over the bridge and that people are sprinting to avoid being hit by motorised traffic at the crompán roundabout, but reckon there's no business case for segregated infrastructure on the island and since the existing infrastructure passed their respective safety audits there won't be any problems.

So if you ever wonder "how did they manage to get to 85% car dependency in a place with a bus and railway" remember that it took a real integrated effort from all stakeholders.

no.8

Disagree with that. Lived in a country with multiple Ikeas and its obvious to regular shoppers (I'll reluctantly say i was one) that far more money is spent by those visiting an Ikea outlet vs. Those browsing online. How many times have we gone to buy 2 or 3 items and come out with 10?

Add to that the value of physically seeing products in the flesh, which is make or break.

No that notion is specific to Ireland only it seems (to someone justify it) and doesnt add up. They'd make a killing in Cork. It begers belief why the nearest one is still 250+km away

questionmark?

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/proposed-cork-docklands-plan-challenged-961798.html

The expected objection. In short the claim is the plan is a breach of EU environmental rules. In reality it's an attempt to block anything associated with the flood relief scheme in preference to a tidal barrier.

namloc1980

no.8 wrote: »

Disagree with that. Lived in a country with multiple Ikeas and its obvious to regular shoppers (I'll reluctantly say i was one) that far more money is spent by those visiting an Ikea outlet vs. Those browsing online. How many times have we gone to buy 2 or 3 items and come out with 10?

Add to that the value of physically seeing products in the flesh, which is make or break.

No that notion is specific to Ireland only it seems (to someone justify it) and doesnt add up. They'd make a killing in Cork. It begers belief why the nearest one is still 250+km away

If there was a strong business case for an IKEA in Cork then you can bet there'd already be one here. Clearly they don't see it as a necessity.

no.8

namloc1980 wrote:

If there was a strong business case for an IKEA in Cork then you can bet there'd already be one here. Clearly they don't see it as a necessity.

Cork, Limerick, Galway or otherwise, the point is that the country is more than large enough and demand high enough to cater for more than 1 proper outlet if they wish to go that route (based on the scores of visitors to Ballymun).

namloc1980

no.8 wrote: »

Cork, Limerick, Galway or otherwise, the point is that the country is more than large enough and demand high enough to cater for more than 1 proper outlet if they wish to go that route (based on the scores of visitors to Ballymun).

Again, if there was a strong business case then there'd already be one here or advanced plans for one. IKEA have repeatedly said they have no plans for another store in Ireland and are concentrating on their Dublin store and online order and delivery service to cover the whole country:

A company spokesperson said: “IKEA Ireland will focus future investment on developing its flagship store in Ballymun, the order and collection Point in Carrickmines, and its shop online service, in order to make IKEA products more accessible to people throughout Ireland.

“IKEA has no plans to open any additional stores in Ireland at present,” they added.

https://www.echolive.ie/corknews/Ikea-shelves-its-Cork-plan-0381e26b-ddc7-4695-b979-3f44b1d7a3fa-ds

https://www.corkbeo.ie/culture/whats-on-news/ikea-respond-cork-store-question-16834725

ScrubsfanChris

questionmark? wrote: »

https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/ireland/proposed-cork-docklands-plan-challenged-961798.html

The expected objection. In short the claim is the plan is a breach of EU environmental rules. In reality it's an attempt to block anything associated with the flood relief scheme in preference to a tidal barrier.

Out of interest, where would the best place be for Tidal Barrier? Blackrock/Passage West Ferry?

The Thames Barrier cost (adjusted for inflation) £1.6 Billion :eek:

Mefistofelino

[HTML][/HTML]

ScrubsfanChris wrote: »

Out of interest, where would the best place be for Tidal Barrier? Blackrock/Passage West Ferry?

The Thames Barrier cost (adjusted for inflation) £1.6 Billion :eek:

Passage across to Carrigrennan (Little Island). You need Lough Mahon to act as a reservoir to hold the outflow from the Lee when the barrier is closed . If you installed in in Blackrock, the city would probably flood regardless as the river can't empty.

TheChizler

Good thing we don't live on the Thames so!

I think Passage to Little Island came up as the optimum place in a couple of reports. The price wasn't massively more than what they're planning on spending in the city either.

Markcheese

TheChizler wrote: »

Good thing we don't live on the Thames so!

I think Passage to Little Island came up as the optimum place in a couple of reports. The price wasn't massively more than what they're planning on spending in the city either.

You can guarantee that whatever the tidal barrier was proposed to cost, treble it, (as well as adjusting for inflation...), and several reviews to investigate the scope, and possibilities. and court cases to delay it...
And the city scheme, sky's the limit along with the time frame, some peculiar accounting, (where the Quay wall restoration and public realm parts, would have to come from a seperate budget, the removable flood barriers wouldnt be available yet (and the scheme will work perfectly when they're installed, but we put the wrong foundations in), and the pumps don't work... But we pay a multi million p.a maintenance contract...
Oh it was the wrong type of flooding...

ScrubsfanChris

Mefistofelino wrote: »

Passage across to Carrigrennan (Little Island). You need Lough Mahon to act as a reservoir to hold the outflow from the Lee when the barrier is closed . If you installed in in Blackrock, the city would probably flood regardless as the river can't empty.

So 400m wider than the Thames barrier? That seems impractical.
Also isn't the point of a tidal barrier to hold back abnormal high tides and storm surges? Nothing to do with rain fall creating higher out flow.

Also seen price for Cork quoted at €200 million?
The Eider Barrage (while obviously not the exact same design) cost €87 million..... in 1973

ScrubsfanChris

Found the proposal: http://npf.ie/wp-content/uploads/0486-Save-Cork-City-2.compressed.pdf

Looks interesting, but I still can't believe that price

marno21

Mini digger out at the Crows Nest doing clearance work

I suppose we can count it as a start now

Also SHD application lodged for Albert Quay Tower

https://www.echolive.ie/corknews/A-planning-application-for-apartments-on-the-former-Sextant-bar-site-has-been-lodged-60a16e30-9362-43d7-8373-97e56b4a2f75-ds

An absolutely fantastic proposal by JCD

hans aus dtschl

ScrubsfanChris wrote: »

So 400m wider than the Thames barrier? That seems impractical.
Also isn't the point of a tidal barrier to hold back abnormal high tides and storm surges? Nothing to do with rain fall creating higher out flow.

Also seen price for Cork quoted at €200 million?
The Eider Barrage (while obviously not the exact same design) cost €87 million..... in 1973

I don't really want to get involved in this discussion, but as far as I'm aware the distance of the moving barrier would not be the distance of the entire barrier. I believe it would be 300m or so. Overall barrier length would be 1km or so

The OPW refute the concept of a tidal barrier. They produced some documentation on it.
https://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/arup-s3-lower-lee-frs-ie-wp-static/wp-content/uploads/lee_valley/LLFRS_SupplementaryReportonOptionofTidalBarrier.pdf
or here:
https://www.lowerleefrs.ie/project-info-reports/
Their estimate is approx. €948m. They're quite opposed to the concept, so I'd suggest they haven't given a "low-ball" estimate for this price.

Their document above has a lot of detail in it. It's worth a read. I'm still not against the idea of a tidal barrier myself, having read it.

And having recently seen the walls they're putting in, in Clonakilty, I'm totally opposed to the walls proposal. The word "disgraceful" comes to mind, to be honest.

Pablo Escobar

Sextant site planning application has been made.

https://www.echolive.ie/corknews/A-planning-application-for-apartments-on-the-former-Sextant-bar-site-has-been-lodged-60a16e30-9362-43d7-8373-97e56b4a2f75-ds

Mefistofelino

ScrubsfanChris wrote: »

So 400m wider than the Thames barrier? That seems impractical.
Also isn't the point of a tidal barrier to hold back abnormal high tides and storm surges? Nothing to do with rain fall creating higher out flow.

Yes - but while the barrier is closed for a few hours to hold back exceptionally high tides or storm surges, the Lee will continue to flow and that outflow must be "stored" until the tidal level drops sufficiently to allow the barrier be reopened.

fonecrusher1

marno21 wrote: »

Also SHD application lodged for Albert Quay Tower

https://www.echolive.ie/corknews/A-planning-application-for-apartments-on-the-former-Sextant-bar-site-has-been-lodged-60a16e30-9362-43d7-8373-97e56b4a2f75-ds

Whinge brigade assemble!!

:pac:

I think it looks fantastic. Of course there will be automatic objections from those who want things to remain in a semi-derelict state (Port of cork) but such is life. Hopefully after that it'll get the nod.

[Deleted User]

Mefistofelino wrote: »

Yes - but while the barrier is closed for a few hours to hold back exceptionally high tides or storm surges, the Lee will continue to flow and that outflow must be "stored" until the tidal level drops sufficiently to allow the barrier be reopened.

Yeah, they will have to close off the barrier at low tide, to allow for an empty Loughmahon.

With the barrier closed the Lee (and any storm related waters coming off the dam) need to go somewhere. Where else would people think all that water is going to go?

Mefistofelino

fonecrusher1 wrote: »

Whinge brigade assemble!!

:pac:

I think it looks fantastic. Of course there will be automatic objections from those who want things to remain in a semi-derelict state (Port of cork) but such is life. Hopefully after that it'll get the nod.

Some of the renderings are a bit fanciful though. They've vaporised the entire docklands (and assumed nothing would be rebuilt) and partially dissolved One Albert Quay

Douglas Eegit

Mefistofelino wrote: »

Some of the renderings are a bit fanciful though. They've vaporised the entire docklands (and assumed nothing would be rebuilt) and partially dissolved One Albert Quay

The second picture includes all current infrastructure.

Mefistofelino

Douglas Eegit wrote: »

The second picture includes all current infrastructure.

There is a full drawing and photomontage pack on the developer's website

Brussels Sprout

Pablo Escobar wrote: »

Sextant site planning application has been made.

https://www.echolive.ie/corknews/A-planning-application-for-apartments-on-the-former-Sextant-bar-site-has-been-lodged-60a16e30-9362-43d7-8373-97e56b4a2f75-ds

The plans by JCD to construct a large-scale residential “build to rent” scheme in Cork’s docklands will be a very significant development for the city.

So does this mean that the apartments will not be available for purchase to individuals? Is this done for financing reasons?

hans aus dtschl

Mefistofelino wrote: »

There is a full drawing and photomontage pack on the developer's website

That drawing set is cool thanks.
Boring looking design IMO, but I wouldn't be against it.