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Heated Gaming Topics Discussion

Potential-Monke

As others have noted, the News and General threads keep getting clogged up with the 'debate' around heated topics, such as Gamergate, Star Citizen et al. So, I've created this topic specifically to discuss the heated gaming topics.

Suppose it would be best to continue the debate from the News thread, so whoever wants to start on the Star Citizen stuff, go!

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K.O.Kiki

riclad wrote: »

imagine if at every international soccer match there were protests about trump,china, extinction climate change, etc

I would like that very much.
Too bad sports/esports seems to turn groups of people into a brainless crowd instead. :pac:

Robert ninja

2018: All games are political you can't stop it even if you made the game and say it isn't. Accept our agenda or get de-platformed.
2019: Doh!

Robert ninja

PostWoke wrote: »

I certainly don't want to hear that CYKA BLYYYYYYYYAT ****. Let them be banned before they even get to my ear.

Are you mad? Cyka blyat is practically a meme in the CSGO community at this point. Non-russian speaking players even say it as a joke to each other. Your suggestions are balls you'd end up banning nearly half the player base. Terrible ideas but you're still all for it because muh hate speech.

PostWoke wrote: »

Less persistent than a literal AI algo I bet.

Cheaters and bad actors are persistent enough to avoid bans, work around them for years, willing to rebuy the game dozens of times and clearly state in-game that they don't care if they're banned even egging people on to report them because they'll just create a new account. But simply not saying any words that appear on google's ban list after the cost of creating a new account to play has a discount of 100%? Yeah they'll never bother.

PostWoke wrote: »

Got some examples for us chief? From countries in the west obviously, CCP is a little different until Google starts coming to our doors to ghost us

https://www.newscientist.com/article/2166207-discriminating-algorithms-5-times-ai-showed-prejudice/
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/20/business/media/facebook-racist-ads.html
https://www.dailysignal.com/2019/03/19/police-question-uk-journalist-for-misgendering-a-transgender-woman/
https://www.theorganicprepper.com/ai-hate/
https://www.campusreform.org/?ID=13560
https://www.theregister.co.uk/2018/08/31/ai_toxic_comments/

I don't want AI saying what is/isn't hateful, mean spirited or whatever else. It's a human issue and a social one. I use harsh language when playing games with my friends and we all enjoy it. If people don't want to see/hear words or anything from certain players just censor it out for them in text or apply an automute system that's opt-in. Then they can enjoy their game in complete silence with no chance of being offended by anything. Until they get T-bagged and the AI calls the police because of virtual rape.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQkENXa9WNE

Robert ninja

Reddit gaming communities were on a delete spree about the Twitch "charity" issue going on right now. OAG has a decent write up about the entire issue: https://www.oneangrygamer.net/2019/11/twitch-charity-fraud-censored-by-some-major-gaming-sub-reddits/96567/

As for the whole G/O Media/Kotaku issue, another great summarisation of what's going on for them:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8dQU7cu7Y2w

Mitch Connor

OneAngryGamer and some other angry male youtube channel.

I'm sure both are great sources of balanced coverage.

super_furry

Wasn't there a special thread created for all this Gamergate drivel?

pixelburp

No outlet publishing content with a title like "The well deserved demise of Kotaku", should be entitled to call itself even remotely balanced, or particularly sober. Screw that blatant clickbait noise.

super_furry wrote: »

Wasn't there a special thread created for all this Gamergate drivel?

Given some around here get upset about anything vaguely "topical" actually discussed, I guess the oneAngryGamer clickbait should be automatically moved to the "Heated Discussion" thread, lest discussion spontaneously break out?

Robert ninja

You're free to post other outlets covering the Twitch & G/O stories.

pixelburp

Robert ninja wrote: »

You're free to post other outlets covering the Twitch & G/O stories.

YOU started the conversation dude, why not share sources more respected than the usual "I hate Kotaku" biased, hobby-horse types

Robert ninja

pixelburp wrote: »

why not share sources more respected

I'm ok with the sources I posted especially UEG. Go ahead and post the 'respected' ones though since you seem to be the expert on that.

PostWoke

super_furry wrote: »

Wasn't there a special thread created for all this Gamergate drivel?

Yeah there's an Antifa thread for all the alt-righters to hang out in and claim Antifa is the end of civilization :pac:

Shiminay

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias

PostWoke

Robert ninja wrote: »

2018: All games are political you can't stop it even if you made the game and say it isn't. Accept our agenda or get de-platformed.
2019: Doh!

Can you elaborate on the 'd'oh'? We are days away from one of the most personal politics filled title of the year, Death Stranding, and people are salivating for it.

hellsing101

PostWoke wrote: »

Can you elaborate on the 'd'oh'? We are days away from one of the most personal politics filled title of the year, Death Stranding, and people are salivating for it.

I wouldn't necessarily say people are salivating for Death Stranding, it will do well because of the names attached to it but I would imagine a lot of people will be put off if it presents an overly preachy message.

From initial reviews it seems gameplay is fairly lacking so that will hurt sales too I'd imagine.

There isn't anything inherently wrong with having some politics in your game but at the end of the day if the game isn't fun no amount of politics can make it a good game.

Varik

Kotaku do actually write about games at least, they're up their own holes in the same nonsense as deadspin but unlike deadspin they do actually cover their supposed beat.

If they keep their heads down they'd probably continue unless revenue is worse than it looks. Don't think they will, don't think they can hep themselves. From taking pot shots on SM to snide remarks in their actual articles.

PostWoke

hellsing101 wrote: »

I wouldn't necessarily say people are salivating for Death Stranding

It's a Hideo Kojima title.

It's ok to be wrong sometimes.

gizmo

Back in June when CNET published their "Meet the angry gaming YouTubers who turn outrage into views" article, I made the comment about UEG below in my post on the subject.

Chris Zakrzewski of Upper Echelon Gamers, initially started his channel to talk about a game he was clearly into, The Division, but over time found a considerably larger audience when he leaned into the "critical" side of commentary and when I say critical, I don't mean analysis. You can actually see this shift if you scroll through the overview of his videos on his channel here. When asked would he consider changing that formula, as he says in the article, it was a hard no.

If you have a scroll through the list in the above link again, you'll see nothing has changed since the publication of the article. Again, take note of the sheer overwhelming number of negative videos complete with inflammatory text and headlines compared to the relatively tiny number of positive ones until you get back to the beginning of his channel.

Now read this...

When the ability to grab cheap clicks with a title that rage baits your audience dries up, the potential for quality work expands. It might be overly optimistic to expect an increase but the possibility is there.

That's a direct quote from his video above on this subject matter.

The video itself is, rather unsurprisingly, complete garbage. Bereft of logical consistency from the start, it degenerates further into him just disingenuously ranting about the publications and their staff as well as taking a bizarrely benign view of the blatant corporate interference in the operation of the sites in question.

On that particular note, the LA Times had a piece on the going's on at Deadspin entitled, News Analysis: I checked the math of the media bosses who told Deadspin to ‘stick to sports.’ It doesn’t add up, which is worth a read if you're interested in the potential reasoning behind the move from the parent company. There was perhaps vague reference to this in UEG's video but it's not really possible to say for sure as he didn't call the article out by name.

In somewhat related news, the author of the original memo to Deadspin staff, Editorial Director Paul Maidment, has just resigned from G/O Media.

johnny_ultimate

You’ve got to laugh at the illogical loops the angry Internet babies are working themselves in about the current G/O situation. Surely if these people cared even slightly about ‘ethics in journalism’ they’d be jumping to the support of the journalists currently taking a public stand - up to mass resignations - against the corporate ghouls attempting to interfere with their editorial independence.

But no. More ‘wah wah I don’t like Kotaku’s politics’ horse****.

Also, speaking of the corpse of Deadspin, worth linking to possibly the very best article there is about GamerGate - a brilliant, frighteningly prescient take on what it represents in terms of modern culture wars. If you’ve ever wondered what all the fuss is about, this skewers right through the horse**** and excuses and gets to the essence of the thing.

https://deadspin.com/the-future-of-the-culture-wars-is-here-and-its-gamerga-1646145844

To even take Gamergate's corruption critique seriously enough to point out how incoherent it is, though, is to give the movement too much credit. It's not about gaming, any more than the 9/11 truther movement is about getting Dick Cheney to confess Yes, by God, yes, we did it to get our hands on Afghanistan's oil. It's about identity.

Varik

gizmo wrote: »

On that particular note, the LA Times had a piece on the going's on at Deadspin entitled, News Analysis: I checked the math of the media bosses who told Deadspin to ‘stick to sports.’ It doesn’t add up, which is worth a read if you're interested in the potential reasoning behind the move from the parent company. There was perhaps vague reference to this in UEG's video but it's not really possible to say for sure as he didn't call the article out by name.

In somewhat related news, the author of the original memo to Deadspin staff, Editorial Director Paul Maidment, has just resigned from G/O Media.

Great Hill Partners are private so no public financials, but Univision had them. Even if you ignore the loss on the sale as them having overvalue the sites potential in the first place (loss of 120m), they lost about 30m most quarter and 90m in one. Another year of losses would have cost them the same as the lost selling it.

Someone one can argue that the sport and non-sports were comparable in views but both were seemly ****.

PostWoke

Gamergate has never, ever been about 'ethics'. Been following it since August 2014, it's always been about hating on people, especially women.

2014, what a year for the hobby. First PC Master Racers, then Gamergate. Sad, sad ****.

gizmo

Varik wrote: »

Great Hill Partners are private so no public financials, but Univision had them. Even if you ignore the loss on the sale as them having overvalue the sites potential in the first place (loss of 120m), they lost about 30m most quarter and 90m in one. Another year of losses would have cost them the same as the lost selling it.

Someone one can argue that the sport and non-sports were comparable in views but both were seemly ****.

All completely true but, importantly in this particularly context, not applicable to the subject of the memo sent to the editorial staff. If their argument was based on traffic then, according to the available information, as per the LA Times piece, their logic was flawed.

Compounding the situation was the fact that, even before this furore, one of their clients media and ad operations teams did not believe it was likely G/O Media could deliver as many ad impressions as they originally promised, hence the decision to roll out the overtly obtrusive video ad policy across the network.

Over-estimating ad reach, treading all over editorial independence, forcing an objectively poorer experience on visitors to the site and ultimately losing the entire staff? This is ham-fisted corporate interference at its worst so it's rather baffling to me why anyone could look in the slightest bit favourably on it, not least hope it consumes any other website in the process, even if it's one they don't like.

Revoker88

Would Jim Sterling be included in using the negative side of things for views?

Does he do positive videos anymore?

I do agree the negativity clcik bait is there for sure. When something happens in Fallout 76 all the negative videos to pop out of the woodwork on youtube.

What surprises me is the amount of views,i mean i didint even think that game would have that many players never mind that many people interested enough to watch a video about it.

J. Marston

Jim's news stuff is overwhelmingly negative. I don't watch those anymore. They're all the same "Bethesda/EA bad, triple aaaaaa".

He himself has said that negative videos push views and subscribers and that positive news videos he does do get a fraction of the views.

I like his Jimpressions videos though. He is much more grounded in those.

The Phantom Pain

Jim Sterling is rather harmless because he rarely attacks individuals but more dodgy industry practices and he tries his best to make sure everything is based on fact.
I too prefer his jimpressions videos where he's just talking about the quality of games.
The other thing about Jim is that he's incredibly funny.

Robert ninja

Watched this a bit ago.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHQfUd4Jl04

Penn

EoinHef wrote: »

Would Jim Sterling be included in using the negative side of things for views?

Does he do positive videos anymore?

I do agree the negativity clcik bait is there for sure. When something happens in Fallout 76 all the negative videos to pop out of the woodwork on youtube.

What surprises me is the amount of views,i mean i didint even think that game would have that many players never mind that many people interested enough to watch a video about it.

Yeah Jim himself has said that when he does positive videos, they get a fraction of the views the negative ones do.

In fairness to Jim though, at least his negative videos are "This industry practice is sh*tty" and not "They gave a female character a prominent role in this game those DAMN SJW CUCKS!"

pixelburp

Sterling stopped publishing those "review" videos of Steam detritus which has helped make his channel less negative, and so sticks to games he actually wants to talk about: which means by and large the actual gaming content is generally quite positive. His reviews of Disco Elysium, Children of Morta & The Outer Worlds are highly effusive, while he reviewed MediEvil for the nostalgic factor of a game from his youth.

He's an odd fish, because a lot of what he says is both common sense, well researched or thought out, and often very prophetic; but he wraps it up in a presentation style that's incredibly Marmite and alienating. I'd have a lot of time for him but even I get a little tired of his forced histrionics, wishing he would just mature his approach a little. It just makes it easy for his distractor to overly emphasise that persona as a criticism. Ultimately though, when it comes to the direction the AAA games company is heading in, he's on the money.

Retr0gamer

I also think he can say what he says in his videos in half the time. Do respect his opinions though and good on him calling out the BS, even if giving BotW a lower score than HZD is utterly unforgivable.

Sonics2k

I find if you skip his intros and outros his videos are very good. I like the actual content he provides but often find the 'character' he puts out there as just irritating.

SomeSayKos

pixelburp wrote: »

He's an odd fish, because a lot of what he says is both common sense, well researched or thought out, and often very prophetic; but he wraps it up in a presentation style that's incredibly Marmite and alienating. I'd have a lot of time for him but even I get a little tired of his forced histrionics, wishing he would just mature his approach a little. It just makes it easy for his distractor to overly emphasise that persona as a criticism. Ultimately though, when it comes to the direction the AAA games company is heading in, he's on the money.

I agree with a lot of this. I don't watch his stuff anymore though as I'm just not a fan of of his presentation shtick.
In general though I watch a lot less of the aul angry youtube lads because I found it was just a really negative headspace to be in and I reached a point where I asked myself why I was watching this stuff. The truth is I was just an unhappy person that craved negative content. Now I'm of the opinion that these angry youtube lads who make mean spirited content that contribute nothing other than negativity aren't really worth anybody's time. The hypocrisy of these people is genuinely mind boggling.