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Rugby v Football players' attitude

bobbyss

In general the attitude to decisions of the rugby players to referee decisions is mature and accepting. The footballers could learn a thing or two from them. We still remember Roy Keane going after referees and shouting in their faces.

Feigning injuries.

Even football managers after a game harrassing the referee is not a rugby thing. In fact rugby coaches are not on the side line. They are elsewhere letting their players work things our for themselves.

What explains this deep chasm in these professional sports?

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bobbyss

Wanderer2010 wrote:

Rugby players in general come from wealthy, well-heeled backgrounds and are highly educated, many of them are solicitors, accountants and doctors and its the same for many of the fans as well. Neither the players nor the fans have the name for being thuggish or arguing with the ref/fighting with other players. Whether that's right or wrong its a cold hard fact that their backgrounds are far less "working class" than football players/fans.

This is true by and large. One is a middle class pursuit, the other isn't.

Underground

citytillidie wrote: »

I always find pics like this cringey and reflective of a collective smugness on the part of rugby fans who aren't fans of soccer. Not saying you're part of that, you may have just posted it for a laugh, but it's definitely something I've noticed.

It feels moot to point this out but I'll do it anyway. On the bottom pic, Ronaldo is not actually writhing in pain due to being a giant man-baby. He is engaged in an act of chicanery, feigning injury in an attempt to get an opposition player booked and win his team a FK/penalty.

He's cheating, something not exclusive to soccer. As mentioned earlier, rugby players are not above cheating either, it's just a different brand of chicanery they dabble in. They're a bit more creative at it I'll give them that. That bloodgate thing was hilarious.

The Lost Sheep

Wanderer2010 wrote: »

Rugby players in general come from wealthy, well-heeled backgrounds and are highly educated, many of them are solicitors, accountants and doctors and its the same for many of the fans as well. Neither the players nor the fans have the name for being thuggish or arguing with the ref/fighting with other players. Whether that's right or wrong its a cold hard fact that their backgrounds are far less "working class" than football players/fans.

it isnt in general. Bit cliched to say many are solicitors , accountants and doctors. Maybe in past but that isnt the case now.

theoneeyedman wrote: »

This 100%,

If you really believe Rugby players don't complain to and about referees, then you're not watching. You can constantly see and hear on the refs mic lads calling at the ref, 'sir this " and' sir that', and before every big game managers are in the press tell taling on their opponent and how they scrum or tackle or some such. If anything, they are less honest.

nobody in rugby will say refs aren't complained to/about its the manner in which it's done. I'd much prefer much less honest rugby players ans the way they act to refs in the main then how officials are treated in soccer and other sports

Yamanoto

Dog Murphy wrote: »

In spite of the fact that I hate seeing dissent towards officials in any sport I hate even more this smug arrogance from Rugby about "oh look at how much better we are than other sports because we respect the refs" .

Actually I'd say you hear far more about the decorum and respect for ref's in Rugby from fans and organising bodies of other sports.

Doesn't habitually prompt much if any comment from World Rugby or fans of the sport, where it's just a given within the game's culture.

riemann

Don't forget rugby players like to munch on each others ears.

However Suarez goes for a nibble of an arm once and everyone is up in arms

frosty123

Anyone see the english rugby players after the AB game..they sounded so mild mannered & middle class yet they looked like thugs

ArmaniJeanss

Not really getting what the problem is with vociferously appealing for a foul or a penalty etc. (Obviously that one chasing the ref incident 20 years ago was terrible but thankfully rare).
And a few 'for ****s sake, referee, that's a ****ing mile ****ing offside' never really hurt anyone other than the Helen Lovejoys. Direct abuse is fairly rare I believe.
Ultimately like in rugby all decisions by soccer referees are actually accepted and obeyed by the players, it just takes a bit of time occasionally.

Alf Veedersane

Joker2019 wrote: »

Because head injuries are fairly rare in football and hence rightly or wrongly there is not a whole lot of awareness of them within the game whereas in rugby it's fairly commonplace. Far more nasty injuries in rugby in general.

Of course but I think there's been a lot more awareness of head trauma in general and in football especially around the Jeff Astle foundation's work so it should be dealt with better.

But yeah it's more regular and usually more serious in rugby

Muahahaha

razorblunt wrote: »

Football allows it.
The refs have mics, activate them to TV audiences. The sponsors and Sky wouldn't be long asking the FA to clamp down heavily on the abuse.
The refs were also apparently enabled to punish for dissent, I think if I've seen this half a dozen times done in games it would be a lot.

Yeah football does allow it. But I do think Premier League football has calmed down over the years. When a decision goes against them they will be cursing alright but I dont think they are still actually abusing the ref himself, years back they'd be surrounding him and calling him a fcuking wanker and making comments on his eyesight/glasses, etc. If they did that now they'd be booked for dissent. So I think there is still cursing but that it is not directed at the ref personally, more it is at his decision. There would be far worse abuse of refs going on in the lower leagues than the elite level.

Professional footballers in general seemed to have calmed down a fair bit off the pitch too. There is no-where near the amount of arrests for fighting in nightclubs, car crashes, drink driving, etc as there was 15 or 20 years ago. I think these days when they are worth £50m or £60m the club sees them as a valuable asset that has to be protected at all costs. So now they get lessons on behaviour of what is unacceptable off the pitch and most of them largely stick to it and keep their noses out of trouble. That wasnt always the case and its something that the huge sums of money in the game has changed.

salmocab

Underground wrote: »

I always find pics like this cringey and reflective of a collective smugness on the part of rugby fans who aren't fans of soccer. Not saying you're part of that, you may have just posted it for a laugh, but it's definitely something I've noticed.

It feels moot to point this out but I'll do it anyway. On the bottom pic, Ronaldo is not actually writhing in pain due to being a giant man-baby. He is engaged in an act of chicanery, feigning injury in an attempt to get an opposition player booked and win his team a FK/penalty.

He's cheating, something not exclusive to soccer. As mentioned earlier, rugby players are not above cheating either, it's just a different brand of chicanery they dabble in. They're a bit more creative at it I'll give them that. That bloodgate thing was hilarious.

What have those two pictures got to do with rugby fans? Ones a footballer and the other are hockey players. This smugness thing is just nonsense most rugby supporters I know (and that’s lots) also follow other sports, GAA and soccer in particular along with many others.

[Deleted User]

I actually noticed during a quarter final after a replay was shown on TV a ref was explaining his decision to a player and said "You knocked the ball on with your hand" and the replay showed no contact had happened yet the player accepted the decision. Incredible difference.

For anyone who wants to criticise referees of either sport I'd say to give it a go. Then give out but ya might have a bit less zest for it. :P

Underground

salmocab wrote: »

What have those two pictures got to do with rugby fans? Ones a footballer and the other are hockey players. This smugness thing is just nonsense most rugby supporters I know (and that’s lots) also follow other sports, GAA and soccer in particular along with many others.

The thread is about the attitudes of rugby players vs football players and the pic posted is essentially implying that footballers are whingey man-babies. I (and I'm sure probably everyone else on this thread) have seen many versions of that picture posted over the years with a rugby injury in the top pic instead of a hockey one.

Yeah, a lot of rugby fans will follow soccer too and will understand the nuances in the two and wouldn't post pics like that, that's why it's the rugby fans who don't like soccer posting those pics.

salmocab

Underground wrote: »

The thread is about the attitudes of rugby players vs football players and the pic posted is essentially implying that footballers are whingey man-babies. I (and I'm sure probably everyone else on this thread) have seen many versions of that picture posted over the years with a rugby injury in the top pic instead of a hockey one.

Yeah, a lot of rugby fans will follow soccer too and will understand the nuances in the two and wouldn't post pics like that, that's why it's the rugby fans who don't like soccer posting those pics.

Well the guy who posted its user name is city till I die and I've never noticed him posting on the rugby forum. It's also a light hearted jab at football nothing more.

Muahahaha

Underground wrote: »

Yeah, a lot of rugby fans will follow soccer too and will understand the nuances in the two and wouldn't post pics like that, that's why it's the rugby fans who don't like soccer posting those pics.

Thats the thing, its the nuances between the two games that those who only follow one end up missing. Rugby is about physically bashing the line of your opponents so often that you wear them down and blood being drawn is like a badge of honour. Whereas football is more about playing through the lines with the players trying to avoid being tackled. Pictures like the above completely miss the different contexts of the two games.

dirtyden

bobbyss wrote: »

On a regular basis i don't see rugby players argue and sometimes in groups approach the referee . But you see this in football quite a lot. Even the manager encroaching on the field after the game to argued with ref. This is rare in rugby.

In this World Cup, there have been numerous incidents of managers, team officials trying to influence referees or complaining about referees before and after games.

If you have been following the rugby World Cup I am quite surprised you have not noticed this?

bobbyss

dirtyden wrote:

In this World Cup, there have been numerous incidents of managers, team officials trying to influence referees or complaining about referees before and after games.

I haven't seem any rugby manager go onto the field to complain to the ref like some football managers do after a game. They might have done so but i have not seen many full games live.

[Deleted User]

Mad_maxx wrote: »

The smugness surrounding the alleged superior respect culture towards the referee is perhaps the worst aspect of rugby people

I’m definitely a soccer man but OP has a point

Strumms

again it comes back to culture, in rugby there can be a penalty or scrum awarded, referee blows, regardless of whether it the perceived correct decision or not...19 times out of 20 nothing is said and both teams get on with the game.

In football you can have the most clear cut decision say a penalty awarded correctly and you have most of the opposition team surrounding the referee, chasing him, shouting expletives, harassing and intimidating. Only in the most severe of this type of behavior will a card of any color be produced even though the rules demand that it should and must.

You don’t see this in rugby because even ‘fûck sake ref what are you doing ?’ muttered under someone’s breath will see a card. In football you can have four players surrounding the ref and you see him backing away and waving players away..

WHY ? I’d love to see a change in football to the rugby formula. Far too much time is wasted in football with knuckle draggers complaining to referees...despite KNOWING that the decision can’t and won’t be changed.

GAA is streets ahead too, you open your mouth you loose meters. Keep going you could loose a man.

In cricket you disagree you’ll loose your entire match fee, suspension etc.

Far too much time in football is wasted with players arguing with referees, their is zero deterrent.

dirtyden

bobbyss wrote: »

I haven't seem any rugby manager go onto the field to complain to the ref like some football managers do after a game. They might have done so but i have not seen many full games live.

That is because they are not on the sideline, invariably up in a box in the stands now. The influencing is generally through the media. Irish comments about Gardner, nearly every team about Garces etc.

Do you not know that rugby management dont spend the game on the sideline?

The Lost Sheep

ArmaniJeanss wrote: »

Not really getting what the problem is with vociferously appealing for a foul or a penalty etc. (Obviously that one chasing the ref incident 20 years ago was terrible but thankfully rare).
And a few 'for ****s sake, referee, that's a ****ing mile ****ing offside' never really hurt anyone other than the Helen Lovejoys. Direct abuse is fairly rare I believe.
Ultimately like in rugby all decisions by soccer referees are actually accepted and obeyed by the players, it just takes a bit of time occasionally.

you can enquire about a penalty/foul without the **** sake etc though and your message can come across far better to officials. How decisions are accepted is not same though and that why issues in rugby are not anywhere on same level as other sports...

Muahahaha wrote: »

Thats the thing, its the nuances between the two games that those who only follow one end up missing. Rugby is about physically bashing the line of your opponents so often that you wear them down and blood being drawn is like a badge of honour. Whereas football is more about playing through the lines with the players trying to avoid being tackled. Pictures like the above completely miss the different contexts of the two games.

Strumms wrote: »

again it comes back to culture, in rugby there can be a penalty or scrum awarded, referee blows, regardless of whether it the perceived correct decision or not...19 times out of 20 nothing is said and both teams get on with the game.

In football you can have the most clear cut decision say a penalty awarded correctly and you have most of the opposition team surrounding the referee, chasing him, shouting expletives, harassing and intimidating. Only in the most severe of this type of behavior will a card of any color be produced even though the rules demand that it should and must.

You don’t see this in rugby because even ‘fûck sake ref what are you doing ?’ muttered under someone’s breath will see a card. In football you can have four players surrounding the ref and you see him backing away and waving players away..

WHY ? I’d love to see a change in football to the rugby formula. Far too much time is wasted in football with knuckle draggers complaining to referees...despite KNOWING that the decision can’t and won’t be changed.

GAA is streets ahead too, you open your mouth you loose meters. Keep going you could loose a man.

In cricket you disagree you’ll loose your entire match fee, suspension etc.

Far too much time in football is wasted with players arguing with referees, their is zero deterrent.

The Lost Sheep

Strumms wrote: »

again it comes back to culture, in rugby there can be a penalty or scrum awarded, referee blows, regardless of whether it the perceived correct decision or not...19 times out of 20 nothing is said and both teams get on with the game.

In football you can have the most clear cut decision say a penalty awarded correctly and you have most of the opposition team surrounding the referee, chasing him, shouting expletives, harassing and intimidating. Only in the most severe of this type of behavior will a card of any color be produced even though the rules demand that it should and must.

You don’t see this in rugby because even ‘fûck sake ref what are you doing ?’ muttered under someone’s breath will see a card. In football you can have four players surrounding the ref and you see him backing away and waving players away..

WHY ? I’d love to see a change in football to the rugby formula. Far too much time is wasted in football with knuckle draggers complaining to referees...despite KNOWING that the decision can’t and won’t be changed.

GAA is streets ahead too, you open your mouth you lose meters. Keep going you could lose a man.

In cricket you disagree you’ll lose your entire match fee, suspension etc.

Far too much time in football is wasted with players arguing with referees, their is zero deterrent.

I wouldnt put GAA as streets ahead considering losing metres doesnt happen that much and for what we're talking about you rarely see teams get players sent from field for this.

bobbyss

dirtyden wrote:

That is because they are not on the sideline, invariably up in a box in the stands now. The influencing is generally through the media. Irish comments about Gardner, nearly every team about Garces etc.

So a rugby coach is in the stand and this stops him from going onto the field to remonstrate with the ref? Like what some football managers sometimes do?
Is that the reason you think rugby coaches don't go onto the field?

[Deleted User]

Two games with different rules. Rugby players will bend the rules if they can get away with it too.

I think they should introduce punishment for abuse of refs into football amongst other things.

This is what happens if there is a hint of abuse towards a ref. The ref thought the player called him a "fcuking cheat". It's not even clear and obvious that it was directed at the ref.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2EV-aM3j0kg

citytillidie

Underground wrote: »

I always find pics like this cringey and reflective of a collective smugness on the part of rugby fans who aren't fans of soccer. Not saying you're part of that, you may have just posted it for a laugh, but it's definitely something I've noticed.

It feels moot to point this out but I'll do it anyway. On the bottom pic, Ronaldo is not actually writhing in pain due to being a giant man-baby. He is engaged in an act of chicanery, feigning injury in an attempt to get an opposition player booked and win his team a FK/penalty.

He's cheating, something not exclusive to soccer. As mentioned earlier, rugby players are not above cheating either, it's just a different brand of chicanery they dabble in. They're a bit more creative at it I'll give them that. That bloodgate thing was hilarious.

I posted it as i am a fan of hockey before rugby, and seen lots more happen on a hockey pitch where players have played on compared to what you see on a football pitch.

dirtyden

bobbyss wrote: »

So a rugby coach is in the stand and this stops him from going onto the field to remonstrate with the ref? Like what some football managers sometimes do?
Is that the reason you think rugby coaches don't go onto the field?

I think you are ignoring the point of my post.

I will leave you too it. I can see you have no truck with facts or logic.

The_Kew_Tour

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

drugs are not rife in the sport. And it's not simply about big man over the skillful. Laws changes from world rugby are always attempting to speed game up somewhat and cheating in football isnt always brought to centre of attention. Abuse refs get is far too regular of an occurrence though

?

Course Drugs are rife. Players in this Country have even expressed their Concerns as low as School Levels. A former Irish captain at the Centre of it from Kimmage. SA rugby team all look unnatural.

Cheating in football makes back page news if its result going against opposition. More needs be done of course but it's always highlighted even on 48 hours after games with all the analysis.

jk23

I think the physicality of the sport plays a part. In rugby there still is an ethos of not behaving like a child or feigning injury.

I have played soccer and gaa for most of my life and there doesn't seem to be much of it in gaa even though its on the increase a bit...

Strumms

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

you can enquire about a penalty/foul without the **** sake etc though and your message can come across far better to officials. How decisions are accepted is not same though and that why issues in rugby are not anywhere on same level as other sports...

It’s like breaking a red light in a car and a bus smashes into you, you break both arms and legs, then you ask the doctor... “why are my legs and arms broken, come on, why ?” YOU KNOW.

If I’m a referee and someone asks me why it’s a penalty complete with the “ahh I HARDLY touched him routine”...I’d simply advise if they didn’t know after the game go and look at laws 12 and 13... I’m not there to explain the rules only to enforce them.

bobbyss

dirtyden wrote:

I think you are ignoring the point of my post.

dirtyden wrote:

I will leave you too it. I can see you have no truck with facts or logic.

I am specifically refering to on field attitude of both codes. Rugby players and coaches (regardless of their seats- which they could vacate if they wanted to) by and large do not engage in groups encroaching on the referee, disputing angrily with the referee. Rugby players do not, in general, feign injury to the shameful extent footballers do.
I'm not talking abour media interventions. Just on pitch stuff.

andekwarhola

Football is played to feet and has a lot less scope for physicality - especially upper body and/or physical challenges - than gaelic football or rugby. Any sport played at a high level will see players gaming officials and darks arts but because of the way football is played, it obviously veers toward simulation re: physical challenges. Rugby and GAA just game officials and try and gain advantage in different ways.

It's just about gaining advantage. The notion that your avarage top level footballer - who is essentially an elite racehorse in terms of fitness and strength - is some kind of pansy because they simulate fouls is hilarious.