murphaph wrote: » Then why did the electorate vote to join (stay in) the EEC in 1972? If the UK was anti Europe going back centuries as you contend, this would not have been the case. You're talking rubbish.
Danzy wrote: » The problem with a referendum is the dragging out of this. There already was one. Why would anyone want this to go on.
hotmail.com wrote: » No one even talks about this anymore?
robinph wrote: » So probably would have been a good idea a year ago then when the deal first started to emerge? After three years and leave still can't agree on what they want, other than not remain, I don't see how dragging things out for an extra couple of months to aks the population again if this deal is really what they want could be considered a bad thing. It would be democratic after all.
Joe_ Public wrote: » Interesting point made by Heidi Allen just now. One reason PM could be so keen on dec 12th election date is the university vote would not be as big. This is crucial. Had to check and she is indeed correct that term time ends on dec 9th so students would be on holiday and less likely to cast vote. Johnson's own constituency is a big university one where his Labour rival is a recent graduate so easy to see why it might be very much in their thinking.
Danzy wrote: » It wouldn't be for a few months, it could be years more uncertainty. It is the only deal they'll get. Why would the EU want that? Another referendum is their worst nightmare.
Danzy wrote: » Why would anyone want this to go on.
Hurrache wrote: » But the thing is he can't set the date as the 12th of December.
Danzy wrote: » It wouldn't be for a few months, it could be years more uncertainty.
Zubeneschamali wrote: » Uncertainty is not always the worst thing. If you are hopping on one foot at the edge of a cliff, there is uncertainty about whether you will fall off. This is bad. Jumping off to end the uncertainty is worse.
Danzy wrote: » It wouldn't be for a few months, it could be years more uncertainty. It is not certain the Ref would change the result. It is the only deal they'll get. Why would the EU want or honour a referendum in Britain. Just unwind years of preparation. Another referendum is their worst nightmare.
ancapailldorcha wrote: Another referendum will at the very least legitimise the leave result. It also means we can end this nonsense instead of pretending that signing the deal is anything other than a protraction of it.
ancapailldorcha wrote: The EU does not want to shrink. It wants the deal but it wants Britain to stay even more. The EU's leaders have never been anything short of conciliatory when discussing Brexit. They will act in the best interests of the project and the departure of a major power in securities and services is in nobody’s interest, least of all that of Ireland and Northern Ireland.
ancapailldorcha wrote: The deal means we will just be back to this same point next year with another Benn act compelling the government of the day to seek an extension to the transition period which the EU will grant every single time because the UK will be completely neutralised as a threat as it will have lost its many privileges as an EU member, mainly its veto.
ancapailldorcha wrote: A referendum means politicians can either drop this or push for a hard Brexit as soon as possible with a mandate from the public.
Zubeneschamali wrote: » Iraq? Here on Earth 1, people bring it up every time Tony Blair opens his blood-stained mouth.
eagle eye wrote: » No need for another referendum. Their European elections result tell us that.
eagle eye wrote: » No need for another referendum. Their European elections result tells us that.
hotmail.com wrote: » I was replying to the campaign stuff not Iraq.
ancapailldorcha wrote: » Another referendum will at the very least legitimise the leave result. It also means we can end this nonsense instead of pretending that signing the deal is anything other than a protraction of it. The EU does not want to shrink. It wants the deal but it wants Britain to stay even more. The EU's leaders have never been anything short of conciliatory when discussing Brexit. They will act in the best interests of the project and the departure of a major power in securities and services is in nobody’s interest, least of all that of Ireland and Northern Ireland. The deal means we will just be back to this same point next year with another Benn act compelling the government of the day to seek an extension to the transition period which the EU will grant every single time because the UK will be completely neutralised as a threat as it will have lost its many privileges as an EU member, mainly its veto. A referendum means politicians can either drop this or push for a hard Brexit as soon as possible with a mandate from the public.
Zubeneschamali wrote: » Calls grow for public inquiry into Brexit
hotmail.com wrote: » 6 months old.
prawnsambo wrote: » European election results in the UK are no indication of anything really. The turnout was less than 40%.
Strazdas wrote: » Yes, but not so much the question of whether it is right or wrong for the UK to leave the EU. Most Brexit critics believe the holding of the referendum and the referendum campaign was an utter shambles and those public figures defending the process as 100% legitimate are either liars or crooks.
MrMusician18 wrote: » They would be critics anyway and would be looking for any chink to give legitimacy to their desire to overturn the result.
Zubeneschamali wrote: » If Brexit happens, it will destabilize the North after 20 years of peace. If Brexit happens, it will hit me (and you!) right in our wallets. If Brexit happens, it will weaken the EU, just when we need the EU to stand up against Russia in security terms, and the US and China in trade terms. So, I want this to go on until the UK sees sense and revokes A50, and agrees to never say the word Brexit again.
MrMusician18 wrote: » The real issue is motivation. No one believes that the questioning of how the referendum was run was out of high mindedness and concern for the democratic process. In fact, it is quite obvious that those who are questioning the result would question it in any circumstance that leave won. They would be critics anyway and would be looking for any chink to give legitimacy to their desire to overturn the result. Had remain won the conduct of the referendum would have been long forgotten and it would be wall to wall Trump impeachment that would be filling media.
eagle eye wrote: » Yes its a horrible situation especially for us in the Republic and those in NI. It's not good for Europe as a whole either. I'd love to see a change of heart in the UK but I don't see it happening anytime soon sadly.
eagle eye wrote: » I don't see any way this lasts another year. I think we'll see an exit sooner than that and the break up of the UK will flow pretty quickly.
eagle eye wrote: » No, another referendum is pointless. I realise people like to hold out hope that the Brits will change their mind but that's not happening anytime soon. I think the best case is to let it happen now, watch as Scotland first and then NI leave the UK and at some stage in the next ten years they'll all be back in the EU.
Danzy wrote: » Problems with a Referendum is it is unlikely to get voted through in Westminster. It'll take 6 months to have. It will lead to more political instability, easy to see a lot of Working Class people walk away from Labour over that. Tories could be hit as well. In an ideal world the EU would love if Britain stayed. While politicians like Thatcher and Major played massive roles in making the EU what it is, greatly beyond their country's considerable stature, it has often been half in, half out. Whatever happens, in a Remain scenario, you'd be looking at most Meps being extremely hostile to the EU. Another on going boil. The EU want a solution and they want this deal passed. We are probably looking at a global slowdown in the next 18 months, well overdue, that is a much bigger issue for the EU than Brexit. There is talk of interest rates in the Euirozone going down to minus 3. That is the issue that keeps the EU leaders and central banks globally restless at night not Brexit. Due to us being so linked trade wise etc, Brexit is a major news story.Across Europe it isn't anymore. It's viewed as done and they have largely moved on.
prawnsambo wrote: » And still almost three years after the vote, but six months is irrelevant according to you.This one is a lot newer.
