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Brexit discussion thread XI (Please read OP before posting)

Quin_Dub

This is the eleventh incarnation of our Brexit discussion thread,

Same warnings etc still apply:

As we are approaching the critical end of March October 2019 period, please bear the following in mind before posting:
Insults directed at popular figures are not acceptable in this forum
Please do not post memes, videos or comedy links here
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derrymcorry

One thing is clear:

A border poll MUST be held before the year is out.

Let Ireland reunify and GB to go their own way out of the EU.

tuxy

Itssoeasy wrote: »

At least Boris got a win in Parliament. Shame the one he wanted to win he lost by 14. So even if the DUP had voted with Boris they’d still have lost but by 4 votes.

They voted no, there's 10 of them. With them voting yes it should have been 318 to 312 in favour.
Quick math!

Hurrache

is_that_so wrote: »

He's got his deal vote. Game and set to Boris.

Not really, amendments will be piled on now more than likely, and I guess that's a motive for some to have voted for it.

MPFGLB

is_that_so wrote: »

He's got his deal vote. Game and set to Boris.

Major Victory for Boris Johnson and you can see he is cock a hoop about it

He has done what May couldn't and others said he never would

He will get it through after a few week I would say with some amendments

Corbyn has played it all so badly

Almost as bad as the DUP

is_that_so

Itssoeasy wrote: »

He got a vote to move a bill onto the next stage of the parliamentary process. That happens to every bill that goes through the House of Commons.

It's his first! In the context of the larger picture of British politics that's a good win.

Tea Shock

MPFGLB wrote: »

Major Victory for Boris Johnson and you can see he is cock a hoop about it

He has done what May couldn't and others said he never would

He will get it through after a few week I would say with some amendments

Corbyn has played it all so badly

Almost as bad as the DUP

That depends on what the amendments are!

is_that_so

Hurrache wrote: »

Not really, amendments will be piled on now more than likely, and I guess that's a motive for some to have voted for it.

They will come but Corbyn has all but accepted they'll eventually vote for it.

Itssoeasy

Jesus the DUP are sounding constructive. What the hell has happened ?

tuxy

Tea Shock wrote: »

That depends on what the amendments are!

Will amendments have to be approved by the EU?
I guess it depends on what they might be.

listermint

is_that_so wrote: »

It's his first! In the context of the larger picture of British politics that's a good win.

It's not though...

Really

MPFGLB

Tea Shock wrote: »

That depends on what the amendments are!

there is no stomach in HoC to let it slide or go for no deal

tuxy

Itssoeasy wrote: »

Jesus the DUP are sounding constructive. What the hell has happened ?

Throwing a tantrum is constructive?

Hurrache

tuxy wrote: »

Will amendments have to be approved by the EU?
I guess it depends on what they might be.

Exactly. Any amendments won't be equal to what the EU agreed to.

Kermit.de.frog

"One way or another the country will leave with this deal"

Boris Johnson very happy parliament has endorsed the principle of his deal.

Itssoeasy

tuxy wrote: »

Throwing a tantrum is constructive?

Look little acorns.

is_that_so

listermint wrote: »

It's not though...

Really

For people both than Boris no, but for him it is. He's performed well politically since the EU accepted negotiations on the deal.

MPFGLB

Hurrache wrote: »

Exactly. Any amendments won't be equal to what the EU agreed to.

Again EU wil accept amendments as long they are not about a border in NI I would say

They also want it done

This whole process is not about what is right , what is best for the country

Its about the end game and MPs keeping their seats and everyone being winners

listermint

is_that_so wrote: »

For people both than Boris no, but for him it is. He's performed well politically since the EU accepted negotiations on the deal.

Where's all this revisionism coming from!

Just perplexing.

Tea Shock

Hurrache wrote: »

Exactly. Any amendments won't be equal to what the EU agreed to.

If an amendment is for the deal to go to a referendum, the EU wouldn't stop that

But the whole thing would fall in the HoC anyway! Which means the amendment wouldn't pass in the first place

Who knows what else they'll come up with.
Could an amendment potentially be to not have the final vote until after an election?
EU wouldn't object to that either but would have a chance....I think

listermint

MPFGLB wrote: »

Again EU wil accept amendments as long they are not about a border in NI I would say

They also want it done

This whole process is not about what is right , what is best for the country

Its about the end game and MPs keeping their seats and everyone being winners

What's best for the country is nothing what the Tories are offering though...

And no one's Winning anything. Well short of the millionaire backers of the ERG and Johnson.

briany

derrymcorry wrote: »

One thing is clear:

A border poll MUST be held before the year is out.

Let Ireland reunify and GB to go their own way out of the EU.

A) That's not how the border poll is supposed to work. It's supposed to be called at a time when it's fairly clear that a majority in the North would want unification. It's not a mechanism to allow the UK to exit the EU smoothly.

Things up north are a bit politically charged at the moment. I don't think this would be the best backdrop for a border poll.

C) Brexit was brought about without hardly a thought given to NI and the peace process. There is no easy answer to the questions being posed to the Brexit movement. They made their bed. Now they must lie in it.

Kermit.de.frog

I suspect Johnson will tell EU leaders he only needs a short technical extension to get the deal through (a couple of weeks).

devnull

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

"One way or another the country will leave with this deal"

Boris Johnson very happy parliament has endorsed the principle of his deal.

Boris Johnson very happy lying once more, more like.

All it means is that the bill goes to the next stage where it can be amended and some of the amendments may make the deal incompatible with anything that the EU would accept so therefore they wouldn't leave with his deal.

Also you'll note that there is something missing in relation to when this is going to happen, he has no idea anymore because it's out of his hands, despite everything which he has said in the past, again he's been caught spoofing and making promises he cannot keep.

He's a proven liar and cannot be trusted. He said he was going to pull the bill as well if they lost but he only paused it.

briany

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

I suspect Johnson will tell EU leaders he only needs a short technical extension to get the deal through (a couple of weeks).

Funny, that sounds awfully like he'd be negotiating an extension, which he made it clear he wouldn't do. Besides, I thought the Benn act stipulated that a 3 month extension should be automatically accepted?

MPFGLB

Tea Shock wrote: »

If an amendment is for the deal to go to a referendum, the EU wouldn't stop that

But the whole thing would fall in the HoC anyway! Which means the amendment wouldn't pass in the first place

Who knows what else they'll come up with.
Could an amendment potentially be to not have the final vote until after an election?
EU wouldn't object to that either but would have a chance....I think

The DUP will want a change in the Irish Sea border
Greens & Lib Dems will want a new ref
Labour will want in the costumes Union...maybe DUP will vote with them on this and SNP
Most will want guaranteed alignment with EU worker rights
Freedom of movement may be an option

GM228

tuxy wrote: »

Will amendments have to be approved by the EU?
I guess it depends on what they might be.

They would be amendments to the WAB, not necessarily the WA.

Domestic legislation and it's amendments are of no issue to the EU so long as the WA is adhered to.

Itssoeasy

Jesus just delay it until January(I know) and have a bloody general election and maybe(big ask) get a government with something like a majority however small.

devnull

Queen Speech debate (aka Election show) is back tomorrow and Thursday, much to the amusement of a few people in the background.

Tea Shock

MPFGLB wrote: »

The DUP will want a change in the Irish Sea border
Greens & Lib Dems will want a new ref
Labour will want in the costumes Union...maybe DUP will vote with them on this and SNP
Most will want guaranteed alignment with EU worker rights
Freedom of movement may be an option

The only way of sorting all that out is an election.

Then again....it could very well return a parliament just as divided as the one they have now!

I think Johnson will seek a 1 month extension firstly - With Bercow standing down in 9-days! :rolleyes:

Joe_ Public

That pro johnson guy on sky is rather annoying. He's put pressure on the EU, he says, as if some kind of victory. What pressure on the EU? They can still do what they like.