Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo wrote: » The EU has so far unequivocally backed Ireland's position on not wanting a hard border for over 2 years at this stage. There isn't even the smallest crack that they will deviate from this position. They have to be commended. So many Brexit supporters on Twitter (not the greatest source) were saying how Ireland owed Britain because of the billions in loans given during the recession that helped save our economy. Firstly, Britain gave that loan out of self interest. Secondly, the loan is payed back with the interest on top. That was no 'favour' to us. Outside of any principled or political arguments. The facts are that Ireland's border counties are the poorest in the country. That's with a soft border. Customs posts will deprive those areas even more. Any Irish government or individual that is okay with a hard border can't be acting in good faith.
Committee chairman Olivier Lepretre said: “If there is a hard Brexit, I can assure you that not a single kilo of seafood or fish from Britain will get into France. “We would set up barricades. All the fishermen along the northern French coast will tell you the same thing.
Forty Seven wrote: » The SNP have been pushing for independence for my lifetime. The leadership care not a jot who it harms, only who it benefits. They have pushed for it right through periods of massive prosperity. Anyone arguing 'but it's different now' is surely having their cake and eating it too.
Forty Seven wrote: » Who is stockpiling? The issue is well known here <in Great Britain> where we have the same shortages. You think hrt is our priority when stockpiling drugs? It's a non essential treatment. I'll listen when we have life saving drugs in short supply but this is a non starter. Nobody anywhere, not even women's groups, menopause charities, manufacturers, government or media has suggested this is a brexit issue so let's put the nonsense to bed right there shall we?
Infini wrote: » The way this should be looked at is that the SNP have had that as a policy but of course to achieve it they need tbe support of the public. It should also be said that there wouldnt be a 2nd indyref in the future if England had lived up to its commitments in the first ref and not pursuer such a bellended policy that utterly undermines those who voted remain with the UK. The thing is right now because of English failure politics the SNP now have a more legitimate reason to get support for Independence. One has to look now at wether its worth being dragged out of the EU by a broken England or deciding now is the time to cut the toxicity of the south away and go their own way. If anything England has abandoned scotland and they owe them nothing and would be well in their right to walk.
Forty Seven wrote: » I agree with the premise of your thinking. I have given this much thought myself. It affects me directly but I cannot see how Scotland could come out of it well. If we leave the union we will have years of untangling, recession etc just to have a hostile nation to the south blocking our trade route with the EU, an entity they have also fallen out with. England is a large market for Scottish goods and services in the case of brexit, not so much in the transition period. Outside of the EU and outside of the union we are crippled economically. I also disagree with a lot of SNP policies and they have the majority. There is also the nuclear deterrent issue and I don't believe we could fulfill the requirements to join the Euro after Brexit so we are left with what currency? What borrowing rates will we have during transition while we are in crisis economically? How do we divide the standing sovereign debt? There are many unanswered questions. Lots of promises and theories but I'm not yet convinced. Nearly 40% voted leave in Scotland, it's not as simple as all of us being remainers and getting shafted by England. That's part of being in a union. You take the bad with the good. That's democracy.
MrMusician18 wrote: » Italy and Greece were thrown under the bus in the migrant and debt crises respectively.
The idea that union solidarity is both unquestionable and unshakable is a myth that's developed here in the last three years. Solidarity here is cheap, if it were the Balkans facing an aggressive Russia, do you think all the EU 27 would be rushing to provide military assistance? Do people think Ireland would send troops?
Stop moaning ffs wrote: » Another fact not mentioned, EU couldn’t emit as much as a peep for or against Scottish independence last time nor give any signals to Scotland that it would be accepted into the EU. To do so would have directly attacked one of its own members. The U.K. Now that the UK is leaving an independent Scotland would be welcomed in no problem. Maybe even fast tracked.
Kermit.de.frog wrote: » Scotland leaving would be a huge psychological blow for unionists in the north. NI would not last much longer afterward I'd say.
liamtech wrote: » Why do you believe Scotland has fallen out with the EU? or did i read you correctly?
otnomart wrote: » Scary thought about pressure on housing, healthcare, education system in Ireland !
jm08 wrote: » Don't think there will be too many coming here - in fact it will probably put off Irish people returning unless they have a good private pension. State pension is about £6000 a year in UK.
First Up wrote: » Why do people keep peddling this nonsense? The EU has thrown nobody under a bus; it has pulled a few members out from under the buses they found for themselves - and suggested how they could avoid doing so in future.
Forty Seven wrote: » (don't even start:)
threeball wrote: » Yes I agree and Scotland would attempt to cut in to the Irish pie of being an English speaking country that adopted the euro. That is possibly a bigger threat to us than brexit.
Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo wrote: » The EU has so far unequivocally backed Ireland's position on not wanting a hard border for over 2 years at this stage. There isn't even the smallest crack that they will deviate from this position. They have to be commended. So many Brexit supporters on Twitter (not the greatest source) were saying how Ireland owed Britain because of the billions in loans given during the recession that helped save our economy. Firstly, Britain gave that loan out of self interest. Secondly, the loan is payed back with the interest on top. That was no 'favour' to us.
Forty Seven wrote: » I agree with the premise of your thinking. I have given this much thought myself. It affects me directly but I cannot see how Scotland could come out of it well. If we leave the union we will have years of untangling, recession etc just to have a hostile nation to the south blocking our trade route with the EU, an entity they have also fallen out with. England is a large market for Scottish goods and services in the case of brexit, not so much in the transition period. Outside of the EU and outside of the union we are crippled economically. I also disagree with a lot of SNP policies and they have the majority. There is also the nuclear deterrent issue and I don't believe we could fulfill the requirements to join the Euro after Brexit so we are left with what currency? What borrowing rates will we have during transition while we are in crisis economically? How do we divide the standing sovereign debt? There are many unanswered questions. Lots of promises and theories but I'm not yet convinced. Nearly 40% voted leave in Scotland, it's not as simple as all of us being remainers and getting shafted by England. That's part of being in a union. You take the bad with the good. That's democracy. Edit. I was writing this as the pruning happened, didn't see the mod note.
threeball wrote: » The absolute idiocy of the people who think Ireland owes England anything is astounding. We'll gloss over 800 yrs of invasion, pillaging, genocide, plantation, division, collusion and head straight to a poxy loan that's been repaid with interest.
jm08 wrote: » If they haven't done it up to now, they are not going to do it when they leave the EU. I seem to recall hearing that one of the reasons Amercian countries like Ireland is because they can understand our accents (mostly)! From what I recall, they had a serious problem understanding the Scots and Indians.
briany wrote: » I think that in the event of Scotland leaving, Loyalism would cop a renewed siege mentality. I wouldn't be surprised if there was a call for Scottish Loyalists to move to the North in order to tip the demographics. Although in saying that, I wouldn't expect this to amount to more than a relatively small hardcore of headbangers.
Forty Seven wrote: » You have misread. My point being that we will be cut off by England from the <rest of the EU> that they have just fallen out with.
Forty Seven wrote: » The promised loss of NI would likely turn many remainers to leave. That historical stone around our neck has been slowing us for a very long time. You guys are welcome to it. It's not a part of the union. Just a war trophy.
J Mysterio wrote: » This is possibly the worst post I have seen in many, many incarnations of this thread.
