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The Dominance of Dublin GAA Mod warning post#1

seligehgit

Discussion of all matters relating to this contentious subject is welcome and the potential implications of same.This thread is solely for this purpose.

There appears to be a perception that the moderators are attempting to shut down discussion of this topic and direct same off to a low traffic stickied thread.Nothing could be further from the truth.Our sole motive was to confine discussion to a single thread and prevent cross thread posting which was adversely affecting the enjoyment of fellow posters.

Can we please keep posts civil and constructive in nature.

The Changes in the GAA-super thread is now for discussion of all other suggested reforms not relating to Dublin GAA.

Extra Mod Warning:
Right, a separate warning to both sides in this debate:
Firstly, any more mentioning of "financial doping" or any intimation that rules have been broken by Dublin or that Dublin have cheated are banned from now on. You can debate the issue of the funding that Dublin have received without resorting to that. There is zero evidence of it and posting about it will be considered trolling from here on in.

Secondly, this topic is, like it or not, a big talking point in gaelic football at the moment. You are more than welcome to argue your point, but posting in this thread to simply mock those on the other side or complaining about the topic is known as thread spoiling and is specifically banned in the charter (see point 8 here). No one is forcing you to click on this thread and no one is forcing you to post in it. If you don't like the topic, then don't post. It's as simple as that.

This thread is here so that all the discussion is in one place and it won't filter into other threads. This makes it easier to ignore for posters who don't really want to be involved in it. As a result, we haven't really been moderating it as severely as other threads. However, a number of posts recently from both sides are sailing too close to the wind and getting borderline personal. So please take a minute before you hit submit to ensure that your post won't fall foul of the rules. We'll have no hesitation in issuing cards and/or threadbans to posters who fail to heed this warning.

Please report any posts that you feel break the rules.

Any questions, please feel free to PM the mods.

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tritium

kksaints wrote: »

Could play one in Nowlan Park and another in Portlaoise. The semi finals don't have to be a double header. If 36,000 showed up this year for 4 counties this year in Croker then Nowlan and Portlaoise should cope with 2 counties each quite easily.

I don’t think dublin would be the ones objecting to that, though you might find other counties did once they realized the financial implications of not being able to milk the dublin cash cow as effectively.

Of course you’d have posters on here pointing to a full house attendance and telling us it was further evidence of the death of football because there was more in Croker the year before (though it would probably still be more than at the Munster final)

Tombo2001

In a lot of ways it makes a lot more sense to bring weaker counties together than to split Dublin.

For example, Longford/ Westmeath or Tipp / Limerick.

Splitting Dublin doesn't make it any easier for Leitrim or Longford to compete.

Its just makes it a bit easier for Tyrone or Donegal to compete.

Again, it comes back to whether people want a solution, or simply want to put the boot into Dublin - as a place, because of the general resentment and begrudgery that is out there.

Bridge93

Yeah is it equity for all people want, or equity for the few at the top. The general tone here seems to be people still dont give a **** about carlow or Leitrim so long as Kerry and Mayo can win the odd all ireland. Why level the playing field between Cork/Galway and Leitrim when all most are interested in is pulling Dublin down to Kerry/Mayo/Donegal

Tombo2001

One way you could do it is that the club champions represents the county in the All Ireland series.

That would be fairly radical, but its the way it was done in the beginning.

And it would certainly even the playing field very dramatically.

Having said that, would 80000 people show up to see Skryne vs Ballyboden? Not sure.

doc_17

kyote00 wrote: »

You are just embarrasing yourself now....

In 2018, Dublin played Tyrone, Mayo and Galway away in the league.
In 2018, Dublin played Wicklow in the championship opener in O'Moore park....

In 2019, Dublin played Monaghan Roscommon and Kerry away
In 2019 dublin played Louth and Tyrone away in Championship

Maybe you should review that post. Were Louth and Wicklow away games? And Tyrone was, after 2 home games.

Happyilylost

tritium wrote: »

I don’t think dublin would be the ones objecting to that, though you might find other counties did once they realized the financial implications of not being able to milk the dublin cash cow as effectively.

Of course you’d have posters on here pointing to a full house attendance and telling us it was further evidence of the death of football because there was more in Croker the year before (though it would probably still be more than at the Munster final)

Dublin cash cow isn't what it was. As far back as 2012 the DCB wanted to remove themselves from Croke Park and this was refused by the GAA. Not Dublin's fault. Championship attendances were in line with the Tipperary hurlers last year. Ya the odd league game still throws up the odd big attendance but its disingenuous to say Dublin vs Mayo is all about Dublin. I would hazard a guess it has a lot to do with Mayo rather than Dublin alone.

omega man

omega man wrote: »

Dublin’s success is because of HARD WORK too.

Out of curiosity, can I ask you where do you think the funding goes specifically and how does that equate to our senior success? Give me some details and not one liners.

No details provided I see.

Genuinely interested to hear how people think a single GDO per club directly equates to our recent senior success.

Tombo2001

Happyilylost wrote: »

Dublin cash cow isn't what it was. As far back as 2012 the DCB wanted to remove themselves from Croke Park and this was refused by the GAA. Not Dublin's fault. Championship attendances were in line with the Tipperary hurlers last year. Ya the odd league game still throws up the odd big attendance but its disingenuous to say Dublin vs Mayo is all about Dublin. I would hazard a guess it has a lot to do with Mayo rather than Dublin alone.

We discussed this earlier
(I) Dublin attendances are well ahead of Tipp this year, when you strip out the two matches Dublin played outside of Croke Park (which were sell outs and would have drawn a much larger crowd in Croke Park).
Avg 56000 to Avg 43000.

(II) You are saying Tipp, when what you mean is All Ireland Hurling Finalists. Tipp didn't draw such big numbers last year when they were knocked out early.

I agree with your point on Mayo. Per county population, they probably have the best turnouts - Monaghan also maybe.

Nonetheless, Dublin in my view is a cash cow. And whats more, it has a lot of potential to grow numbers, if the LGFA can start drawing a crowd to semi final or quarterfinal games; or if the Hurlers can start filling Croke Park.

Happyilylost

Tombo2001 wrote: »

We discussed this earlier
(I) Dublin attendances are well ahead of Tipp this year, when you strip out the two matches Dublin played outside of Croke Park (which were sell outs and would have drawn a much larger crowd in Croke Park).
Avg 56000 to Avg 43000.

(II) You are saying Tipp, when what you mean is All Ireland Hurling Finalists. Tipp didn't draw such big numbers last year when they were knocked out early.

I agree with your point on Mayo. Per county population, they probably have the best turnouts - Monaghan also maybe.

Nonetheless, Dublin in my view is a cash cow. And whats more, it has a lot of potential to grow numbers, if the LGFA can start drawing a crowd to semi final or quarterfinal games; or if the Hurlers can start filling Croke Park.

I didn't want to cherry pick figures but to be fair Tipp played a game in a reduced capacity game against Clare which would of got a lot more played elsewhere. And one of the games I gave Dublin credit for was against Kildare which was a double header which means a stand alone you would expect would of attracted less. So no. I don't buy Dublin are that far ahead. Leagues attendances are higher than any county fair enough but again there is an added cost of opening headquarters that regional stadiums do not face (I'm not talking about this random 30,000 figure that has been spouted but there is an added cost.) A number of counties bring in decent revenue. Dublin might be the top but they aren't that far ahead of a few counties. I think the GAA would worry more by a drop of interest in the Munster Hurling Championship rather than anything Dublin do.

While it pains me to give an example just look at Dublin vs Galway All Ireland Semi Final in 2018 and Dublin vs Mayo this year in the All Ireland Semi Final in 2019. The opposition matter just as much as Dublin.

TrueGael

omega man wrote: »

No details provided I see.

Genuinely interested to hear how people think a single GDO per club directly equates to our recent senior success.

Its very simple because WE pay your phalanx of underage coaches who create elite players

it allows the lorryload of sponsors (AIG, Subaru, Aer Lingus https://www.dublingaa.ie/partners) money can be directly funneled into creating a professional IC setup (Altitiude Chambers, Cryotherapy ) and other such sports sciences that are light years beyind what anyone else could hope to afford, free meals from the food crowd free cars from Subaru

Every other county board has to pay GDO's out of its pocket (as well as try an run IC teams with huge travelling and catering expenses) as the token amounts from Croke Park are just that - Token

But of course none of those are advantages!!!!!!!!!

TrueGael

Tombo2001 wrote: »

We discussed this earlier
(I) Dublin attendances are well ahead of Tipp this year, when you strip out the two matches Dublin played outside of Croke Park (which were sell outs and would have drawn a much larger crowd in Croke Park).
Avg 56000 to Avg 43000.

(II) You are saying Tipp, when what you mean is All Ireland Hurling Finalists. Tipp didn't draw such big numbers last year when they were knocked out early.

I agree with your point on Mayo. Per county population, they probably have the best turnouts - Monaghan also maybe.

Nonetheless, Dublin in my view is a cash cow. And whats more, it has a lot of potential to grow numbers, if the LGFA can start drawing a crowd to semi final or quarterfinal games; or if the Hurlers can start filling Croke Park.

Jesus Christ comparing a county with a tenth of the population, who had 2 (TWO) games at home in 2019 to the crowd who have a THIRD of the population who face no obstacle to travelling (and don't until the Final anymore)

Lord help us...............................

Tombo2001

TrueGael wrote: »

Jesus Christ comparing a county with a tenth of the population, who had 2 (TWO) games at home in 2019 to the crowd who have a THIRD of the population who face no obstacle to travelling (and don't until the Final anymore)

Lord help us...............................

Good man, the religious references really move this along.

I was responding to someone else making the comparison.

.

Tombo2001

Happyilylost wrote: »

I didn't want to cherry pick figures but to be fair Tipp played a game in a reduced capacity game against Clare which would of got a lot more played elsewhere. And one of the games I gave Dublin credit for was against Kildare which was a double header which means a stand alone you would expect would of attracted less. So no. I don't buy Dublin are that far ahead. Leagues attendances are higher than any county fair enough but again there is an added cost of opening headquarters that regional stadiums do not face (I'm not talking about this random 30,000 figure that has been spouted but there is an added cost.) A number of counties bring in decent revenue. Dublin might be the top but they aren't that far ahead of a few counties. I think the GAA would worry more by a drop of interest in the Munster Hurling Championship rather than anything Dublin do.

While it pains me to give an example just look at Dublin vs Galway All Ireland Semi Final in 2018 and Dublin vs Mayo this year in the All Ireland Semi Final in 2019. The opposition matter just as much as Dublin.

The other thing here is that hurling attendances are substantially up, whereas football attendances are substantially down.

I'd say its the first time in history that hurling is drawing consistently better crowds than football.

I'm not making an argument to say its an apples and oranges comparison though.

There are a few major reasons why football attendances are down, but the biggest one is that the games are crap which in turn reflects their one sided nature.

At the moment, its fairly plain to see - next years championship we'll have a decent semi-final and decent final - which will most likely involve Dublin, Kerry, Tyrone or Donegal and one other - and after that the best games will be ones that are inconsequential for neutrals.

Whereas the hurling is incredibly entertaining by comparison.

TrueGael

Kerry Tyrone 2015 53,000 (on a ****ty wet day)
Kerry Tyrone 2019 33,000 (on a lovely sunny day)

It took a while for the penny to drop with the peasants (not for the prescient among us who could see the train coming down the tracks yonks ago) but the sheer irrelevance of what would and should be a big game has now dawned and its not turning back

''Pigs get fat Hogs get slaughtered''

omega man

TrueGael wrote: »

Its very simple because WE pay your phalanx of underage coaches who create elite players

it allows the lorryload of sponsors (AIG, Subaru, Aer Lingus https://www.dublingaa.ie/partners) money can be directly funneled into creating a professional IC setup (Altitiude Chambers, Cryotherapy ) and other such sports sciences that are light years beyind what anyone else could hope to afford, free meals from the food crowd free cars from Subaru

Every other county board has to pay GDO's out of its pocket (as well as try an run IC teams with huge travelling and catering expenses) as the token amounts from Croke Park are just that - Token

But of course none of those are advantages!!!!!!!!!

Our GDOs create elite players, you’re talking pure nonsense. By the way the clubs fund 50% of the GDO cost.

Free meals are a myth and your sports science rabble is off the charts.

As you well know plenty of other IC players have personal deals with commercial organisations, not just Dublin players. There’s no free cars handed out to the panel.

Tell me how much the DCB earn from sponsorship deals then as you seem to know it all?

TrueGael

omega man wrote: »

Our GDOs create elite players, you’re talking pure nonsense. By the way the clubs fund 50% of the GDO cost.

Free meals are a myth and your sports science rabble is off the charts.

As you well know plenty of other IC players have personal deals with commercial organisations, not just Dublin players. There’s no free cars handed out to the panel.

Tell me how much the DCB earn from sponsorship deals then as you seem to know it all?

All you have to do is click the link to see the Catering Sponsors, you think the DCB are giving them free advertising without getting anything

Same with Subaru, yes the odd player from elsewhere get cars (which I'm totally against btw) not EVERY player on the panel which is about 35-40

AIG deal is a million a year, but shur if Carlow were smarter they'd be able to get AIG millions as well

doc_17

TrueGael wrote: »

omega man wrote: »

No details provided I see.

Genuinely interested to hear how people think a single GDO per club directly equates to our recent senior success.

Its very simple because WE pay your phalanx of underage coaches who create elite players

it allows the lorryload of sponsors (AIG, Subaru, Aer Lingus https://www.dublingaa.ie/partners) money can be directly funneled into creating a professional IC setup (Altitiude Chambers, Cryotherapy ) and other such sports sciences that are light years beyind what anyone else could hope to afford, free meals from the food crowd free cars from Subaru

Every other county board has to pay GDO's out of its pocket (as well as try an run IC teams with huge travelling and catering expenses) as the token amounts from Croke Park are just that - Token

But of course none of those are advantages!!!!!!!!!

And not having to fundraise from your beleaguered supporters who at the same time have to pay thousands of euro every year following the team the length and breath of the country also helps.

omega man

While some of you are on to the GAA querying our games development funding feel free to also ask about the 100m spent on pairc ui chaoimh.

zetecescort

omega man wrote: »

While some of you are on to the GAA querying our games development funding feel free to also ask about the 100m spent on pairc ui chaoimh.

Worth every cent. We got Westlife out of Croker, the Dubs are next

omega man

zetecescort wrote: »

Worth every cent. We got Westlife out of Croker, the Dubs are next

Can’t wait to watch the Dubs play there! However in the context of GAA funding and a ‘level playing field’ then it’s worthy of discussion is it not?

omega man

Balymuns great response to RTE primetime.

Ballymun Kickhams
@BallymunGAA
We've 6 players in this magnificent Dubs team! We developed facilities using fundraising events, and grant facilities that are open to all clubs, all around the country. Our super 6 had all natural talent that was nurtured by our volunteer coaches and you say money is the cause?

Utopia Parkway

omega man wrote: »

Can’t wait to watch the Dubs play there! However in the context of GAA funding and a ‘level playing field’ then it’s worthy of discussion is it not?

Not really. The Dubs have a free stadium to play in.

PUC was falling down. It needed redevelopment. You can argue about the final cost but it would not be unusual in Ireland for a major project to overshoot it's budget unfortunately.

These are all strawman arguments to be fair.

omega man

Utopia Parkway wrote: »

Not really. The Dubs have a free stadium to play in.

PUC was falling down. It needed redevelopment. You can argue about the final cost but it would not be unusual in Ireland for a major project to overshoot it's budget unfortunately.

These are all strawman arguments to be fair.

Everyone is doing their nut over 18m (over 10 years) but they can throw 100m on one county stadium and that’s a strawman argument!

We don’t have a free stadium in Croker and in fact our fans through gate receipts over the years probably funded the rebuild of the National stadium.

beggars_bush

omega man wrote: »

Balymuns great response to RTE primetime.

Ballymun Kickhams
@BallymunGAA
We've 6 players in this magnificent Dubs team! We developed facilities using fundraising events, and grant facilities that are open to all clubs, all around the country. Our super 6 had all natural talent that was nurtured by our volunteer coaches and you say money is the cause?

nobody disputes the development of club facilities. Dublin clubs are a credit for doing that
they also leverage their local politicians very well

what club in Longford or group of clubs were offered matching funding to hire a full time underage coach though?

bruschi

omega man wrote: »

Balymuns great response to RTE primetime.

Ballymun Kickhams
@BallymunGAA
We've 6 players in this magnificent Dubs team! We developed facilities using fundraising events, and grant facilities that are open to all clubs, all around the country. Our super 6 had all natural talent that was nurtured by our volunteer coaches and you say money is the cause?

Dublin clubs and fans are taking a lot of this personal. I can accept that when people call it manufactured or financial doping, it is not giving credit to the hard work done by clubs.

However, even with their own tweet, they are wrong. Shane Treanor is the most recent listed GPO for Ballymun, a role he has that is not available to every other club. That in itself is a major contributory factor to improved coaching both to players and to volunteer coaches to have a full time employee at the clubs disposal.

Also, with regards to grants, and something I recall spoken about on here at the time, in 2017, 26 Dublin clubs got the maximum application of €150,000 grant. From recollection, only one other club in the rest of the country got the maximum grant allocation.

So yes, the grant applications are absolutely available to all other clubs, but receiving them is not on the same par as Dublin clubs.

Happyilylost

omega man wrote: »

Balymuns great response to RTE primetime.

Ballymun Kickhams
@BallymunGAA
We've 6 players in this magnificent Dubs team! We developed facilities using fundraising events, and grant facilities that are open to all clubs, all around the country. Our super 6 had all natural talent that was nurtured by our volunteer coaches and you say money is the cause?

@omega man. And I guess herein lies the crux of the issue. My club applied for a grant from Croke Park for the development of facilities three years in a row. We got the grant year three. (ironically we got two other grants the same year!) No proper explanation as to why it was refused other than we didn't meet the criteria please apply again next year. This delay in funding stopped us from adding B Teams at certain underage groups as we had no space to cater for them. I fully believe our development as a club was hugely impacted by this delay in grans. Since we got our funding we have gone out of our way to help other clubs in Galway apply for same. Refusal after refusal. It is soul destroying. (Before anyone says about looking for handouts when you put in your costing proposal the GAA will only pay a certain percentage of the cost the rest is done through fundraising.) My dealings with clubs in Dublin is they do not seem to have the same amount of problems being granted this money as clubs in Galway. I won't speak for the rest of country because I have no idea. But in Galway it is an issue. And as is national news our county board is no help.

I will state again this isn't a Dublin problem nor am I putting blame on Dublin. Simply trying to highlight issues that other counties may be facing.

Tombo2001

beggars_bush wrote: »

nobody disputes the development of club facilities. Dublin clubs are a credit for doing that
they also leverage their local politicians very well

what club in Longford or group of clubs were offered matching funding to hire a full time underage coach though?

In response -

(I) Do many clubs in Longford have over a 1000 kids as playing members. A lot of Dublin clubs would have this.

(II) When you have that many underage, as well as all the senior teams, rest assured that one single coach does it really make a huge difference?

Most kids will never be coached one to one by this individual.

Tombo2001

bruschi wrote: »

Dublin clubs and fans are taking a lot of this personal. I can accept that when people call it manufactured or financial doping, it is not giving credit to the hard work done by clubs.

However, even with their own tweet, they are wrong. Shane Treanor is the most recent listed GPO for Ballymun, a role he has that is not available to every other club. That in itself is a major contributory factor to improved coaching both to players and to volunteer coaches to have a full time employee at the clubs disposal.

Also, with regards to grants, and something I recall spoken about on here at the time, in 2017, 26 Dublin clubs got the maximum application of €150,000 grant. From recollection, only one other club in the rest of the country got the maximum grant allocation.

So yes, the grant applications are absolutely available to all other clubs, but receiving them is not on the same par as Dublin clubs.

That's interesting - I suppose ultimately the difficulty with the conversation around financials is that we have a lot of imperfect information.

By comparison for example the national lottery publishes each and every grant it hands out, its obvious then if something is not right or looks out of place.

That doesn't happen at least on this discussion on boards, because simply of absence of information to draw any real conclusions.

[Deleted User]

RedDevil55 wrote: »

When you can't argue for Dublin keeping all their advantages you may as well start attacking the poster. Good luck to you.

Again, why split Dublin to level the playing field? Why not amalgamate counties together? I mean, If you split Dublin in four, do they all then play in Leinster? That would mean there'd be 15 counties versus 6 in Munster. Why isn't that seen as an unfair advantage?

RoyalCelt wrote: »

He's obviously talking about home league games. Just another advantage Dublin have.

Hmm, Dublin play their home league games in Dublin.....how is that an advantage again?

Tombo2001 wrote: »

In a lot of ways it makes a lot more sense to bring weaker counties together than to split Dublin.

For example, Longford/ Westmeath or Tipp / Limerick.

Splitting Dublin doesn't make it any easier for Leitrim or Longford to compete.

Its just makes it a bit easier for Tyrone or Donegal to compete.

Bridge93 wrote: »

Yeah is it equity for all people want, or equity for the few at the top. The general tone here seems to be people still dont give a **** about carlow or Leitrim so long as Kerry and Mayo can win the odd all ireland. Why level the playing field between Cork/Galway and Leitrim when all most are interested in is pulling Dublin down to Kerry/Mayo/Donegal

Bingo, people don't want a level playing field at all, they want to see their county win more, which is impossible at the moment.

omega man

Happyilylost wrote: »

@omega man. And I guess herein lies the crux of the issue. My club applied for a grant from Croke Park for the development of facilities three years in a row. We got the grant year three. (ironically we got two other grants the same year!) No proper explanation as to why it was refused other than we didn't meet the criteria please apply again next year. This delay in funding stopped us from adding B Teams at certain underage groups as we had no space to cater for them. I fully believe our development as a club was hugely impacted by this delay in grans. Since we got our funding we have gone out of our way to help other clubs in Galway apply for same. Refusal after refusal. It is soul destroying. (Before anyone says about looking for handouts when you put in your costing proposal the GAA will only pay a certain percentage of the cost the rest is done through fundraising.) My dealings with clubs in Dublin is they do not seem to have the same amount of problems being granted this money as clubs in Galway. I won't speak for the rest of country because I have no idea. But in Galway it is an issue. And as is national news our county board is no help.

I will state again this isn't a Dublin problem nor am I putting blame on Dublin. Simply trying to highlight issues that other counties may be facing.

I completely accept your point at face value. Again as others have rightly said on here that this is a GAA issue. Transparency is required now more then ever with regard to the continuation, granting or refusal of funding.