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The Dominance of Dublin GAA Mod warning post#1

seligehgit

Discussion of all matters relating to this contentious subject is welcome and the potential implications of same.This thread is solely for this purpose.

There appears to be a perception that the moderators are attempting to shut down discussion of this topic and direct same off to a low traffic stickied thread.Nothing could be further from the truth.Our sole motive was to confine discussion to a single thread and prevent cross thread posting which was adversely affecting the enjoyment of fellow posters.

Can we please keep posts civil and constructive in nature.

The Changes in the GAA-super thread is now for discussion of all other suggested reforms not relating to Dublin GAA.

Extra Mod Warning:
Right, a separate warning to both sides in this debate:
Firstly, any more mentioning of "financial doping" or any intimation that rules have been broken by Dublin or that Dublin have cheated are banned from now on. You can debate the issue of the funding that Dublin have received without resorting to that. There is zero evidence of it and posting about it will be considered trolling from here on in.

Secondly, this topic is, like it or not, a big talking point in gaelic football at the moment. You are more than welcome to argue your point, but posting in this thread to simply mock those on the other side or complaining about the topic is known as thread spoiling and is specifically banned in the charter (see point 8 here). No one is forcing you to click on this thread and no one is forcing you to post in it. If you don't like the topic, then don't post. It's as simple as that.

This thread is here so that all the discussion is in one place and it won't filter into other threads. This makes it easier to ignore for posters who don't really want to be involved in it. As a result, we haven't really been moderating it as severely as other threads. However, a number of posts recently from both sides are sailing too close to the wind and getting borderline personal. So please take a minute before you hit submit to ensure that your post won't fall foul of the rules. We'll have no hesitation in issuing cards and/or threadbans to posters who fail to heed this warning.

Please report any posts that you feel break the rules.

Any questions, please feel free to PM the mods.

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TrueGael

Titzon Toast wrote: »

Sour grapes, sour grapes everywhere...

Flat earthers everywhere more like

jay1988

TrueGael wrote: »

Flat earthers everywhere more like

I know, people trying to belittle and downplay the success of this amazing team is about as ridiculous as the stuff flat earthers come out with.

Padre_Pio

ClanofLams wrote: »

Listen you’re on here posting complete nonsense about the other main rugby countries having ‘far greater’ populations than Ireland when a quick google would tell you that’s not the case and that New Zealand, Scotland, Wales all have smaller populations.

Doesn’t reflect well when you can’t get basic facts like those right.

England, France, Italy, Australia, South Africa, USA, Russia, Argentina all have "far greater" populations...

Doesn’t reflect well when you cherry pick your answers.

jay1988 wrote: »

I know, people trying to belittle and downplay the success of this amazing team is about as ridiculous as the stuff flat earthers come out with.

Completely agree.

ClanofLams

Padre_Pio wrote: »

England, France, Italy, Australia, South Africa, USA, Russia, Argentina...

Doesn’t reflect well when you cherry pick your answers.

You said the other 7 rugby nations. That implies the top tier sides. Obviously the winners of the last two world cups NZ are one of those 7 and the current grand slam champions in Wales are.It doesn’t include Russia who Connacht beat by 25 a few weeks ago ffs..

Padre_Pio

ClanofLams wrote: »

You said the other 7 rugby nations. That implies the top tier sides. Obviously the winners of the last two world cups NZ are one of those 7 and the current grand slam champions in Wales are.It doesn’t include Russia who Connacht beat by 25 a few weeks ago ffs..

The argument is that greater population of Dublin = more success in senior football.

I'm saying it's bullsh*t, using rugby as an example, as there are plenty of worse teams than Ireland with massively greater populations, and better teams with smaller populations.

If you want an example closer to home, Kerry has the 15th largest population in Ireland, but they're in the semis or close most years. Funny how we never see Antrim in Croke Park, and Down rarely gets out of the Ulster Championship, despite having the second and fourth largest populations.

ClanofLams

Padre_Pio wrote: »

The argument is that greater population of Dublin = more success in senior football.

I'm saying it's bullsh*t, using rugby as an example, as there are plenty of worse teams than Ireland with massively greater populations, and better teams with smaller populations.

If you want an example closer to home, Kerry has the 15th largest population in Ireland, but they're in the semis or close most years. Funny how we never see Antrim in Croke Park, and Down rarely gets out of the Ulster Championship.

It’s not just population and I have never said that. You obviously need a good participation rate too. Everyone in Kerry plays football everyone in Kilkenny plays hurling that’s part of why they over perform from their population.

Finances and resources have been proven in every sport to make a transformational difference. You just think it’s pure coincidence that Dublin hurlers have improved from getting 15 point hammerings against Westmeath
to being a competitive top tier side and Dublin women are going for three in a row at the same time as Dublin men footballers are enjoying unprecedented dominance I suppose?

TrueGael

jay1988 wrote: »

I know, people trying to belittle and downplay the success of this amazing team is about as ridiculous as the stuff flat earthers come out with.

When you have people telling us the money has made no difference or impact to all their IC teams(who have at a far higher clip this decade) - Mens and Ladies as well as their club teams than how should be they described...............

TrueGael

Padre_Pio wrote: »

The argument is that greater population of Dublin = more success in senior football.

I'm saying it's bullsh*t, using rugby as an example, as there are plenty of worse teams than Ireland with massively greater populations, and better teams with smaller populations.

If you want an example closer to home, Kerry has the 15th largest population in Ireland, but they're in the semis or close most years. Funny how we never see Antrim in Croke Park, and Down rarely gets out of the Ulster Championship, despite having the second and fourth largest populations.

Its the multiplier effect

On an isolated basis none of the advantages - Funding, Sponsorship, Economy, Home Games, Population would distort the competiton adversely

However when you combine all these factors( with money being the biggest factor), winning becomes inevitable.

Leinster is the canary in the coalmine, before the doping started Laois Meath Westmeath Offaly Kildare had all won it within the previous decade and crowds were booming as its was a thrilling and vibrant, the same is now happening before our eyes on a national scale and people are turning away

irishgeo

jay1988 wrote: »

TrueGael wrote: »

Flat earthers everywhere more like

I know, people trying to belittle and downplay the success of this amazing team is about as ridiculous as the stuff flat earthers come out with.

It's a great team because the gaa paid you 15 million extra to make it great.

TrueGael

irishgeo wrote: »

It's a great team because the gaa paid you 15 million extra to make it great.

Dont forget the State doping of a million per year thanks to Bertie

0127647

https://punditarena.com/gaa/gaelic-football/thepateam/money-influence-success-gaelic-football/

Euro 274.9 spent per registered player between 2010-2014 for Dublin
The second largest county Cork got Euro 15.90

Disgrace!

dunnerc

Love this thread , brings a smile to my face , keep it up lads really appreciate it

Trey13

I already made reference to the squad of 2015-2019 being mostly the same but when you look at the players from this squad that played in 2011, it’s impossible to ignore the fact that this group is once in a generation. Cluxton, Fitzsimons, O Carroll, o Sullivan, McCarthy, McCauley, Connolly and Brogan all started. 8 of those players were in the panel yesterday. Kev Mc, McMahon and O’Gara came off the bench in 2011 too. That particular group of players, along with the crop of 24-26 years are a special group of players. I have not seen anything underage in Dublin football to suggest that there is that type of talent coming through anytime soon, bar maybe one player.

You would think several lads will retire and as they have been around so long, other lads who were good enough have fallen away/emigrated/focused on club football etc so the lads coming in won’t be as good.

I accept playing in Croker is an advantage. Players being closer to training is an advantage. But the money being pumped in is less tangible than either of those things. Every intercounty team must have an S & C/nutrition coach/ Physio. I happen to know a friend who is Physio for an underage intercounty team from Leinster and they have 3 Physio’s for the minor side there alone so the argument of the backroom staff doesn’t hold up. This group have dedicated their life to their craft all year round and they’re the best ever team in my opinion.

I can see Dublin falling back and not winning an all Ireland for a few years if several of the senior players retire.

LiamoSail

risteard7 wrote: »

Stop supporting the GAA until it's fair game, simple as that.

So stop supporting the GAA until your side wins?

This is gas stuff altogether. Imagine a soccer fan giving up on the sport because Man City have more money, or a rugby fan packing it in because the Munster players have less of a commute to training than the Connacht players.

I’m all for being bitter in defeat but sometimes you have stop, look in the mirror and think “am I acting like an absolute effing rocket here?” because the answer is yes, you most certainly are. Your whining and bitterness in defeat is unparalleled anywhere else in sport

ClanofLams

Trey13 wrote: »

I already made reference to the squad of 2015-2019 being mostly the same but when you look at the players from this squad that played in 2011, it’s impossible to ignore the fact that this group is once in a generation. Cluxton, Fitzsimons, O Carroll, o Sullivan, McCarthy, McCauley, Connolly and Brogan all started. 8 of those players were in the panel yesterday. Kev Mc, McMahon and O’Gara came off the bench in 2011 too. That particular group of players, along with the crop of 24-26 years are a special group of players. I have not seen anything underage in Dublin football to suggest that there is that type of talent coming through anytime soon, bar maybe one player.

You would think several lads will retire and as they have been around so long, other lads who were good enough have fallen away/emigrated/focused on club football etc so the lads coming in won’t be as good.

I accept playing in Croker is an advantage. Players being closer to training is an advantage. But the money being pumped in is less tangible than either of those things. Every intercounty team must have an S & C/nutrition coach/ Physio. I happen to know a friend who is Physio for an underage intercounty team from Leinster and they have 3 Physio’s for the minor side there alone so the argument of the backroom staff doesn’t hold up. This group have dedicated their life to their craft all year round and they’re the best ever team in my opinion.

I can see Dublin falling back and not winning an all Ireland for a few years if several of the senior players retire.

Something being less tangible doesn’t mean it’s not a substantial factor. The figures are there to be seen in black and white. It’s not about senior team supports, you’re right almost every county has those. It’s about the huge amount of resources being pumped in underage.

https://twitter.com/seanmcgoldrick1/status/1093268753725431808?s=21

TrueGael

The older players were passengers and have been for the last number of years and they will jump(retire) before they are pushed

The average age of team keeps falling so this once in a generation thing is nonsense. The system is setup to churn out elite upon elite player and the very best athletes get cherrypicked to play Senior

MayoAreMagic

Padre_Pio wrote: »

You don't win 5 in a row purely on cash.

Serious talent and commitment in that team. A man down 2 weeks ago and they still held off Kerry.

Of course they do. Dublin have some great players. The intelligence of a young forward like ocallaghan to professionally foul morley for their goal chance, safe in the knowledge that the black card rule wasnt fit for purpose, I thought was exceptional. When the roles were reversed, the experienced moran naively didnt do the same to murchan and that was probably the difference between them in the end, although dublin deserved to win.

There is talent and commitment in all counties to be fair. Those feats are just made much easier when you have every advantage going over your opponents. Its the equivalent to a heavyweight boxer competing in the lightweight division. Yes the guy might be talented but that isnt really the point is it? If Muhammad Ali had done this and only this, would he be considered the greatest of all time? Probably not.

The reality is, until there is more equal treatment, dublin wont get the plaudits. That might seem harsh on the great players they have, but then again it isnt half as harsh as the young kerry lads making their way to the all ireland final, only to have to face a de facto provincial, professional outfit...

Trey13

TrueGael wrote: »

The older players were passengers and have been for the last number of years and they will jump(retire) before they are pushed

The average age of team keeps falling so this once in a generation thing is nonsense. The system is setup to churn out elite upon elite player and the very best athletes get cherrypicked to play Senior

Really? Cluxton, Mick Fitz and James McCarthy will probably get all stars. Connolly was our first sub yesterday. McMahon made big contributions throughout the year. Even Kev Mc changed the game when he came on two weeks ago in turning over the ball twice when Dublin were a point down.

aodomhnaill

Anyone see Philly and Tommy Walsh go at it on the sideline before they went on? Walsh said something and Philly lost it. I remember reading in his book that players hes marking often say some horrible stuff about his brother, but once this happens he knows hes got the better of the player if they reduce themselves to this so it doesn't get to him and if anything he uses it to his advantage. If he can put up with that, I'd be seriously curious as to what Walsh said to him for him to react that way...

MayoAreMagic

LiamoSail wrote: »

So stop supporting the GAA until your side wins?

This is gas stuff altogether.

Sorry but ist that exactly what was happening with dublin?
Maybe we will all get a 17 million quid sweetener to come back if we do?

jay1988

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Sorry but ist that exactly what was happening with dublin?
Maybe we will all get a 17 million quid sweetener to come back if we do?

Maybe, still wouldn't enough for mayo to win an all ireland though.

MayoAreMagic

aodomhnaill wrote: »

Anyone see Philly and Tommy Walsh go at it on the sideline before they went on? Walsh said something and Philly lost it. I remember reading in his book that players hes marking often say some horrible stuff about his brother, but once this happens he knows hes got the better of the player if they reduce themselves to this so it doesn't get to him and if anything he uses it to his advantage. If he can put up with that, I'd be seriously curious as to what Walsh said to him for him to react that way...

To be fair, you would have to respect that, if he wasnt constantly mouthing to opponents himself and thereby, brazenly hypocritical. Does that mean he thinks his opponent has already got the better of himself whem he does it also?
Personally, id rather someone said something like that than try to rip the eye out of my head...

aodomhnaill

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Sorry but ist that exactly what was happening with dublin?
Maybe we will all get a 17 million quid sweetener to come back if we do?

So which is it, fans stopped going to games when we weren't winning anything or fans stopped going to games because we are winning so much. Both of these said ad nauseam on this thread.

irishgeo

jay1988 wrote: »

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Sorry but ist that exactly what was happening with dublin?
Maybe we will all get a 17 million quid sweetener to come back if we do?

Maybe, still wouldn't enough for mayo to win an all ireland though.

I'm sure it would when Dublin would not be getting it and you actual have to start paying for the professional setup from your own pocket, the sunshine fans would stop going as you would not be winning. so that's going to hit the funds. If your not winning the sponsorship deal isn't going to be as much.

Of course that's when the once in a generation team has retired. That isn't really a once in a generation.

Ace2007

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

To be fair, you would have to respect that, if he wasnt constantly mouthing to opponents himself and thereby, brazenly hypocritical. Does that mean he thinks his opponent has already got the better of himself whem he does it also?
Personally, id rather someone said something like that than try to rip the eye out of my head...

So you would prefer someone to mentally bully you away from cameras or recordings, than have someone attack you in front of the cameras, and where there can be visual marks to show of an attack?

Everyone says it happens to everyone, but it doesn't make it right to mentally try to wind someone up to gain an advantage. Your basically looking for the weak link and saying right lets say xyz to make him react. I wonder would players say 90% of what they do if there were more mics around.

Ace2007

irishgeo wrote: »

I'm sure it would when Dublin would not be getting it and you actual have to start paying for the professional setup from your own pocket, the sunshine fans would stop going as you would not be winning. so that's going to hit the funds. If your not winning the sponsorship deal isn't going to be as much.

Of course that's when the once in a generation team has retired. That isn't really a once in a generation.

Dublin Hurlers aren't winning much, but they have the same sponsorships given the way the Dublin sponsorship is packaged.

irishgeo

aodomhnaill wrote: »

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Sorry but ist that exactly what was happening with dublin?
Maybe we will all get a 17 million quid sweetener to come back if we do?

So which is it, fans stopped going to games when we weren't winning anything or fans stopped going to games because we are winning so much. Both of these said ad nauseam on this thread.

It's the 80s and 90s when Dublin were ****. Dublin fans we're not going. Now the crowd only shows up for the semi final and finals.

Father Hernandez

irishgeo wrote: »

It's the 80s and 90s when Dublin were ****. Dublin fans we're not going. Now the crowd only shows up for the semi final and finals.

Okay

https://twitter.com/Hill16Army/status/1158355360023031810?s=20

selassie

even if they reduced Dublin's funding ten fold they'd just moan about our population size, and if we split up Dublin they'd moan that it's always one of the Dublin sides winning it.

Elemonator

Mantis Toboggan wrote: »

Play the all Ireland football Final somewhere other than in Dublin. Take the home advantage away. If the final was in Killarney I'd have it a 50/50.

I wouldn't say home advantage makes any big difference here. Ireland is small enough that the players would not be fatigued by travel and that fans would still travel down to a match. At leas that's what I understood to be the meaning of home advantage.