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Wife or Mother?

LegacyUser

Who gets priority , my mother has treated my wife and me terribly for years and without going into all the details she apologised but it was kinda the straw that broke the camels back the last thing she done on my wife.

I'm very much stuck in the middle , I feel guilty not visiting my parents they are elderly but I want to support my wife and she has put up with so much s**t over the years.

My father contacts me regularly wanting to know when we will be back down to the house with the kids , I keep telling him its not going to happen , I told him our door is open if they want to see the kids , my mother is saying she won't come visit the kids if we don't reciprocate and visit them also ie. they are not going to come visit unless we do , but we aren't my wife is too hurt by the way she has been treated.

My parents want me to come down on my own with the kids but I feel this is betraying my wife and excluding her , especially as my other brothers and wives are often there and my wife will be left out.

I'm at a loose end now and finding it hard to except the relationship with my parents is over but if I was to rekindle the relationship , it would cause the relationship with my wife to be under huge strain and possibly divorce.

Do I just cut all ties with my parents ?
Just putting it here first I may seek counselling on my own , thanks in advance.

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pwurple

Ugh, this cutting people out craic causes such needless hassle, and drama. I cannot abide it. Why can't people just hold their tongues if they don't like someone and get on with the civilities of life with other humans.

Your mother sounds like she is being ridiculous for a start. She won't have your wife in the house, but wants you and the kids?
And also, your wife said she won't go see them because her feelings are hurt. Similarly unreasonable.

What kind of treated poorly are we talking about here? Insults and dirty looks, or something more serious, like financial hardship, criminal behaviour / physical abuse.

Xterminator

my mother has treated my wife and me terribly for years and without going into all the details she apologised but it was kinda the straw that broke the camels back the last thing she done on my wife.

the very 1st time something happened you should have nipped it in the bud there and then. by allowing your mother continue it for years you have disrespected your wife too! clearly your mother is in the wrong, and you should back your wife 100%. She is not unreasonable by refusing to continue to be badly treated. Grow a spine. Tell your parents she is your wife and when they mistreat her, they are mistreating you too.

When your parents see that you are united they will have 2 choices apologise and behave, or not see the grandkids. And it will be up to them to choose.

My parents want me to come down on my own with the kids but I feel this is betraying my wife and excluding her , especially as my other brothers and wives are often there and my wife will be left out.

Tell them you are a married couple. they get you both not at all.

jimmycrackcorm

If your mother is at fault for treating your wife so badly then you need to spell it out to her that she needs to acknowledge that and apologise to her.

Quite simply the relationship needs to be repaired through this. As you are all family then it's not like a disconnected friendship that you can simply wave goodbye to.

If there is a sincere apology then your wife should also accept that for the same reason.

You going up with the kids on your own is insufficient as this is not right for your immediate family.

LegacyUser

Thanks for the replies , my mother has been very mean to my wife and she has apologised and accepts she is in the wrong but this has been going on for 15 years plus and the cycle is my mother does something horrible on my wife. She will lie and fabricate stories to others making my wife out to be a total c... And other stuff of that nature , ok for example my wife was heavly pregnant and forgot to ring my mother to wish her happy birthday she sent a text instead and my mother flipped out told her never text her again and never show up at her door again. My mother later apologised but this time my wife has said enough she can't keep doing this going back accepting the apology only for something else to happen her 6 months down the line.
If I side with my wife it means losing contact with my parents .

Neyite

I'm on the wife's side here. And I think that you need to back her up firmly with your parents.

People get to a point where they decide they don't want to take any more sh!t anymore especially when 6 months down the line there's more drama of the same nature so the apology is meaningless.

Your dad is an enabler and flying monkey for your mother. Even after all the apologies your mother is still dictating terms and conditions for another adult in terms of visiting. Screw that. If she was genuinely remorseful she would be visiting and trying to make amends. This is just the same old nonsense But with your wife no longer playing ball and being her scapegoat the game can't get played.

There is nothing to stop your father from visiting you - except your mother. There is nothing to stop you from visiting them -except your mother. She's the root of all this and if her behaviour and his enabling has brought you all to a point where they don't see their grandchildren often well, you reap what you sow tbh.
And why would you want to expose your children to people who slag off their mother and find fault with everything she does or doesn't do? You also need to consider the life lessons that your children should learn from you - and not putting up with toxic people no matter who they are to you is a very good one to start with.

wiggle16

Edited: OP posted while I was writing my reply

banie01

Your wife!
Jesus, you are building a future with the woman.
How well do you think that's going to go if you show yourself up to be a spineless mammies boy?

Your mother has serious control issues and your dad is only fuelling her behaviour.

You would be quite surprised how quickly people can lift out of your life, giving your mother her head in this...
Is a huge slap in the face to your wife, it shows her absolutely zero respect and even less value.

Grow up, take a stand and if your Mother can't actually accept that and at the very least compromise.
Then cut her loose until she can.
If your father then decides to take her side, well at least he has the balls to stand by his wife rather than ask a message board even if he is wrong.

LegacyUser

Yeah great post NEYITE that really hit home and your bang on .
I think my problem is my dad rings be and gets upset on the phone and it makes me upset but he is the enabler and my wife says that also to me .
My siblings tell me I'm making my parents I'll by not visiting and want me to put up with there behavior because they are elderly now and they are worried for my parents health. My father thinks ' you only have one mother and you should accept her failings because she rared you'
I hate feeling like cr@p no matter what I do someone gets hurt and it's on my mind all the time,when the phone rings I pray it isiint my dad ringing for another lecture . Thanks for all posts they are all helpful in some way

Wesser

wife!!!!

eviltwin

Your wife of course, it's a no brainer. She's the one you've made a life with, she's the mother of your children.

I feel so sorry for your wife. You and your father are both enabling your mother to abuse this woman. You say your mother apologised but then continues the abuse.....if I was your wife I'd be so hurt. And that's not to mention exposing your kids to this stuff.

You need to put your foot down. You can't stop your mother being this way but you can stand by your wife and say you won't facilitate it. If your dad wants to see the kids he can be taken to you, if that causes issues well that's his stuff to deal with. You can still maintain a relationship with your dad and siblings while not allowing your mother to be involved

I really hope you stand up for your wife now. It should never have been allowed to get to this point. You need to step up now and be the husband she deserves

Daisy78

Does your mother understand the hurt this is causing you in relation to this, and your kids? She might think her poison is targeted directly at your wife without fully grasping the unhappiness it is causing you. Have you ever tackled her head on “look this is causing me a lot of stress and unnecessary misery, can you please dial it back a bit for my sake?” What answer would she have to that I wonder?

Neyite

Siblings are flying monkeys too then.
Susan Forwards toxic parents book is often recommended in situations like yours.

It's a difficult place for you to be. It sounds like you already know you should be (and are) sticking up for your wife but the guilt trips you are getting are difficult to ignore.

Expect them to up the ante if you aren't falling into line. A convenient health scare usually follows...

LegacyUser

Neyite wrote: »

Siblings are flying monkeys too then.
Susan Forwards toxic parents book is often recommended in situations like yours.

It's a difficult place for you to be. It sounds like you already know you should be (and are) sticking up for your wife but the guilt trips you are getting are difficult to ignore.

Expect them to up the ante if you aren't falling into line. A convenient health scare usually follows...

Already had the health scare ,I was called by a sibling to say they were both really ill and if I didn't sort things they would get worse, I called down to house and they didn't seem that bad.

I know lots of messages saying grow a spine, man up etc but how do I get it off my mind or stop it entering my head each day and ruining my quality of life, I can't just flick a switch and forget things. There's always something a family event a birthday etc and it's really hard to move on.

Xterminator

OP

you don't have to deal with it every day. you don't have to make a decision every day. you just have to irrevocably commit to being 100% on your wife's side just once. Back your wife and make sure she knows you choose her side.

Then it doesn't matter who says what, to whom.

valoren

When someone genuinely apologises there is the implicit and mutual understanding that what they are apologising for will not happen again. A rational, genuinely sorry person then never does it again. It indicates respect to the other party. Her hollow apologies indicate that this is a cycle of abuse ie she insults, you react, cut contact, she caves, apologises, she insults, you react...etc etc

You've removed yourself from that cycle and pay no heed to the enabling guilt tripping from your dad and siblings. They know it's your mother and there seems to be this playing happy families expectation from their end. Your wife and excluding her from a toxic dynamic is your priority. Your wife is your immediate family now your parents/siblings are a secondary concern. Heed their taunting to man up. Tell them to mind their own business. Remember, ultimately, the only way to deal with toxic people is to not deal with them.

Neyite

meh2019 wrote: »

I know lots of messages saying grow a spine, man up etc but how do I get it off my mind or stop it entering my head each day and ruining my quality of life, I can't just flick a switch and forget things. There's always something a family event a birthday etc and it's really hard to move on.

It's easy for people who've never met you to tell you to cut them off -they aren't the ones dealing with the day to day. It can take years to detach from a toxic family and you do have to process the loss of contact as it's not easy. If it was just the troublemaker it would be easy but usually there's other casualties of the war like siblings and nieces and nephews you inadvertently get cut off from and that hurts.

Practically, I'd suggest that you yourself continue to visit as you like. Give vague excuses that your mother can't jump on as to why your wife isn't there - she had to work /stay in for the plumber /help her sister etc. Same with the children. Bring them for a family occasion, but not for general visits. Cite swimming lessons/ birthday party/ football match as reasons for them not turning up.

When there's a dig, don't bite or react. So for example a remark that your wife must always be working you plaster on a bland smile and agree that yes, she's very busy and don't rise to it or question it. If there's a nasty remark about your wife, a nice-but-firm request to not speak that way about her firstly but if it's kept up you either leave the room or the house (pleasantly if you like - "Oh, I must see how dad's roses are getting on" or "is that the time, I need to hit the road" and it will be clear that you will leave each and every time your wife gets slagged off. And DON'T tell your wife what was said. It would be said with the intention of getting back to her and hurting her in her absence so thwart that plan.

They will soon get the message but you are doing it in a non confrontational way that means less arguments and strife for you. I'd strongly recommend you get the book and also check out this thread for a lot of tips and strategies from people who've been on that road before you.

LegacyUser

thanks again and I am busy reading through that book , got an online copy its very helpful.
The problem is the parents house is like a central hub and the other grandkids and in laws are mostly there also , if i visit alone my wife feels like i'm betraying her , because my mother is then getting what she wants she has everyone in the house except my wife.
My mother has no interest in the grandkids she pllays the dotting grandparent role but posting pictures of them on facebook but reality is the same , kids arrive quick hug picture with them then ignore the kids for the rest of the time. My mother would start putting the kids coats on and hand my wife her handbag before we are ready to leave, shes just a rude rude woman.

Going down to the house on my own is not really an option i've tried it , i get home and there will be a way my mother has caused more hassle , she might put a picture up of me there with the other siblings on facebook and let it be known that my wife is not there, she spins lies and stories to the other siblings and relatives, my wife feels like by me going down to the house at all im betraying her , because there will be a spin on it to make my wife out to be the bad one not visiting. So we need to cut all ties unless they come here and visit us which my wife is agreeable to , but my mother is saying she won't come to our house cause we don't come to hers, if she really wants to see her grandkids she can visit . She came my sons confirmation recently and didn't look at any of my kids all day.

pwurple

The visits are more for your father's sake, and your children to see their cousins than your mother then. And that's valuable in it's own right too.

zoobizoo

meh2019 wrote: »

but my mother is saying she won't come to our house cause we don't come to hers

What she is really saying is "I will do what I like. I won't compromise. I won't act like an adult. I will do nothing to help make up for the way I behaved towards the woman whom you chose to marry. I will do nothing for your kids. I will also make your life very difficult by refusing to be nice to your wife and by refusing not to come to visit you ".

I don't think that anything you do will improve the way your mother treats your wife and kids.

If you want your kids to see their cousins then arrange to meet your siblings at theirs or at yours.

mordeith

From personal experience I would recommend meeting your parents in a neutral place (not their place or yours) on your own and lay out the issues with the way your wife, and by extension you, are being treated. If there is no honest response from your mother then you may to accept a drastic change in your relationship. Certainly your wife is the priority.

eviltwin

Cutting a parent off is never easy but sometimes it's the best solution. I haven’t had a relationship with my mother in 24 years, she doesn't even know my younger child exists, where I live etc. It's awful that things have come to this but the only way to deal with a toxic person is to cut them out. Maybe it will be the kick up the arse she needs to see that she needs to address her issues. She will run rings around you making her jump but pandering to her won't make things better.

ElizaBennett

Look at it this way OP, at the moment you're miserable and so is your wife who you live with. You're caught in the middle and very stressed. From my reading of what you've told us your mother is never going to change, bar a miracle. You can probably accept that after a lifetime knowing her. You've been deluding yourself and trying to be a good person but she'll never change. So do the one thing you can do. Make your wife and kids happy by comiting to them. Cut your mother out and have done with her. Let your father visit if he wishes. You can leave the door open for her to visit your home but tell her you and your family will never ever be in her house again. At least then youre no longer in the middle. Youve picked a side and one person is happy. Who just happens to be the most important person. And you're at peace.

B0jangles

Glad to hear you're reading up on this kind of behaviour OP - that should help you see the patterns in your mothers behaviour and how plain manipulative and toxic ( and sadly, not at all uncommon) they are.

She's not going to change - why should she? She's spent a lifetime being this person, she's got a support network of people willing to help her continue this behaviour. She's also got her home as the default centre of family life so any conflict with her is automatically a threat to cut off contact with the whole family.

It's easy for outsiders to say 'she's terrible, just cut her off', but you've spent a lifetime being shaped by who she is and that kind of conditioning doesn't let go overnight.

Make it clear to your family - your mother, father and siblings and most importantly, to your wife, that you stand with your wife now - you support her 100%. If needs be you may have to cut off or severely reduce contact with some of your family - people like her don't accept rules and boundaries - those are only for her to lay down and other people to follow. Like others have said, she'll probably stage some kind of dramatic event to bring you back in line and if when that doesn't work, there may well be a lot of rage towards you and especially your wife for having 'turned her son against his own mother!'

dellas1979

I 100% agree with your wife.

But I dont agree with most of the suggestions on how to handle it.

A very very clear line needs to be drawn with your mother. This involves sitting down and talking to her. This was never done. Its a line of respect.

I beyond believe that if something happened one of your parents, you would regret the hostility.

Go yourself. Talk to them. Explain your case. Draw the line. Explain to your mother that she is now taking responsibility for her actions/words. Ye are done with her acting how she pleases.

Let that settle. Tell your wife what happened. Let that settle. Invite them for dinner/see grandkids.

Any jip at all, and you will refuse to engage them.

Rubberchikken

i dont agree with either your mother or wife.
theyre both choosing to act the way they are.

for this to have any conclusion one of them is going to have to grow up and accept the other one, warts and all.

if they both stopped behaving like idiots for one minute, they might see the damage they are doing to their children/grandchildren, family.

ILoveYourVibes

When you marry your primary responsibility is to your wife and whatever children you have.

You have to make sure your marriage stays strong to keep the family strong.

You should tell your mother the above.

But you should tell your wife this. That it would really mean a lot to you if she could find it in her heart give your mother another genuine chance. Then give her a little time to process this. Tell her you know she was treated badly and you feel awful about it and have told your mother its not on. But if your wife could give her one last chance it would mean so much.

Tell your mother the woman you love is being gracious enough to try again and she needs to respect her and treat her differently and yourself too.

strandroad

OP why don't you start meeting your siblings and cousins outside of your mother's house? Not all at once, one by one perhaps. Your mother will act insulted whatever you do anyway (she seems completely set in her ways and narcissistic to start with) and this way you can keep your relationships going and importantly build friendships among the children.

chooseusername

Hi op, I don't know if you've thought about Family mediation.
I can't post a link, but if you Google Mediators Institute of Ireland
it would be a good place to start.
It's not cheap, and it may not even work in your case.
It will allow you to talk to each other -all four of you- through an impartial
third party.
The worst case scenario is a complete split from your parents, your father
will most likely feel he has to side with your mother,just like you have to take your wife's side.
Maybe that is what needs to happen.
Whatever about the current situation affecting your mothers health,
it is having a negative effect on your wellbeing.
I know your dad has been called an enabler here , but try to understand his position. He can't do right for doing wrong.
Just to let you know I have nothing to do with any mediation service in Ireland.
But it did help our family in the past .

Springfields

Your wife of course.

Unless you want her to be your ex wife !! Grow up and tell your mother to cop on..

Anna2834

Similar story to what I grew up with. My mum didn't get on with her mother in law and my dad seemed to be always on his mother's side and rarely supporting my mum this went on for years and years and years. It all ended when my parents decided to emigrate, more than 25 years ago. I believe it was the best decision ever, as otherwise I truly believe my parents would have been divorced by now.

What my dad did was just take us the kids, to visit her (grandma) and my mum went about her business. To this day they don't talk and my grandma is almost 90 and all alone. Which is really terrible...

Seems my grandma was quite horrible in respect of my mum, the horror stories I heard...makes me sometimes look at my grandma in a total different light and I can barely believe that this frail little old lady was capable of putting her own son and grandkids through so much hardship.

Your priority in my opinion is your WIFE not your mum. I saw the damage a married man who can't decide who is a priority in his life, do to a family.