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The Dominance of Dublin GAA Mod warning post#1

seligehgit

Discussion of all matters relating to this contentious subject is welcome and the potential implications of same.This thread is solely for this purpose.

There appears to be a perception that the moderators are attempting to shut down discussion of this topic and direct same off to a low traffic stickied thread.Nothing could be further from the truth.Our sole motive was to confine discussion to a single thread and prevent cross thread posting which was adversely affecting the enjoyment of fellow posters.

Can we please keep posts civil and constructive in nature.

The Changes in the GAA-super thread is now for discussion of all other suggested reforms not relating to Dublin GAA.

Extra Mod Warning:
Right, a separate warning to both sides in this debate:
Firstly, any more mentioning of "financial doping" or any intimation that rules have been broken by Dublin or that Dublin have cheated are banned from now on. You can debate the issue of the funding that Dublin have received without resorting to that. There is zero evidence of it and posting about it will be considered trolling from here on in.

Secondly, this topic is, like it or not, a big talking point in gaelic football at the moment. You are more than welcome to argue your point, but posting in this thread to simply mock those on the other side or complaining about the topic is known as thread spoiling and is specifically banned in the charter (see point 8 here). No one is forcing you to click on this thread and no one is forcing you to post in it. If you don't like the topic, then don't post. It's as simple as that.

This thread is here so that all the discussion is in one place and it won't filter into other threads. This makes it easier to ignore for posters who don't really want to be involved in it. As a result, we haven't really been moderating it as severely as other threads. However, a number of posts recently from both sides are sailing too close to the wind and getting borderline personal. So please take a minute before you hit submit to ensure that your post won't fall foul of the rules. We'll have no hesitation in issuing cards and/or threadbans to posters who fail to heed this warning.

Please report any posts that you feel break the rules.

Any questions, please feel free to PM the mods.

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gormdubhgorm

Bonniedog wrote: »

Gold Star gorm. Excellent.

I spent most of yesterday with a hungover head on me trying to converse with him on twitter. He is persistant I will will give him that

When I said to him he was confused about the result and did not know what he wanted. Full of turmoil.
His answer was he was and wished it was the 90s when it was a level playing field!

I got his tweet in reply -

I screenshot them as well because he is prone to altering or deleting tweets.

Edit The fact he refered to the 00's Dublin side as a bloody good side also amused me plus the 90's team underachieved in SF's and finals.

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

The persecution complex of Dublin fans is laughable.

Bonniedog

Gold Star gorm. Excellent.

gormdubhgorm

Has anyone read Ewan McKenna's latest offering - the guru/cheerleader/cult leader of the anti-dub/dublin doping/dublin dominance/football is dying brigade.
I think it sums up the mental anguish and turmoil that those with a strong anti-dub bias are feeling after Sunday.

https://punditarena.com/gaa/emackenna/mackenna-monday-draw-dublin-acceptable/

If it was a Kerry win McKenna was ready to write it as salvation for football:

"For a few brief moments yesterday, it seemed that was about to change. A flicker of salvation? Very nearly."

But the fact it was a draw ruined the narrative. What was McKenna to do?
He could not say football is dead because Dublin did not win.

Answer make Jim Gavin the scapegoat by giving him a backhanded compliment.

"Meanwhile, it’s rare you can say that they survived in spite, rather than because, of Jim Gavin."

This is one of McKenna's dichotomies
When Jim Gavin does not win with Dublin - he is highlighted as the cause of it.
When Dublin win money is highlighted as the cause of it - not Jim Gavin

McKenna then had to scramble for a negative somewhere

"It meant that this ultimately was the perfect day for the association. The real winners here."

Seriously - there were no winners not the fans, not the players. A classic game of football which showcased what is great about the game.

Not happy with this McKenna tries to foreshadow a Dublin win on Sunday week. To return to his narrative which is on shaky ground.

'They get the ticket sales of another hyped-up sell-out. They will get their cash-cow and favourite son making history with that five-in-a-row, even if it’s behind schedule. And best of all they now have a result and a team to point to and say there remains actual competition and thus financial doping around the capital is all good. That cannot be allowed to happen.'

Remember this is the same guy who has said football is dead/dying!

https://www.independent.ie/sport/gaelic-games/gaelic-football/ewan-mackenna-gaelic-football-is-dying-and-if-the-dublin-problem-isnt-tackled-it-will-soon-be-in-the-ground-37282516.html

Then of course there is silly comparison of Dublin to the Man City football group mixed with a contradictory backhanded compliment.

"For there are similarities. Dublin – an unofficial member of the City Football Group.
Of course, there’ll be desperation to conflate these truths with some sort of attack on the players when no one doubts their quality and they are widely regarded as a hard-working group of stand-up characters."

So two sports are compared one professional where signings are made from all over the globe for 100's millions of pounds.
To the GAA a sport which is based on community, players are not brought. In fact, many are born into the game, Brogan, Spillane, Moran, McCarthy, Rock.
The link from previous eras is still strong.
Players who returned from a pro-game Aussie rules to play for the club and county they love - Kilkenny, Kennelly, Stynes.
Lads who are not paid a penny.

To compare Dublin to the Man City football group is not only an insult to those from Dublin GAA but those for the whole of the GAA family. It indicates a lack of understanding of the GAA and a parroting of phrases like 'financial doping' stolen from Soccer (Arsene Wenger)

Then in the article McKenna dreams of the 'what if’s' for Kerry.
It is almost as if he had the article written in his head years in advance dreaming of a Dublin defeat in an AI final.
‘What if, what if, what if ‘ he pines.

But the real anguish for McKenna is that he enjoyed the game!

"That doesn’t take away from what was a classic game for such enjoyment can co-exist with a push for equality. In fact such was the quality and amazing tension, it should remind us of what the game can be at its best, and see us want more of it."

Again, this the same person who claims/hopes that football is dying so it can prove a flawed narrative.
His head is spinning.
I am sure Ewan will have his two copies ready on Sunday week –

A Dublin win = narrative football is dying, financial doping, asterisks, Man City etc

A Kerry win = narrative Kerry are the saviours of football, Jim Gavin at fault etc

A draw poor Ewan’s head will go into meltdown he cannot use the same narrative as this drawn game.
If he admits he enjoys it again, he will be chipping away at his own bias and agenda.

Strumms

Is there anything to be said for a novena ?

MayoAreMagic

maestroamado wrote: »

Is this thread closed?

If you can post on it then it isnt closed...

People are probably just posting on the all ireland final at the minute...

Some people seem to think that because dublin only drew, all talk of splits should now cease..
How exactly? They didnt lose for a start, even with 14 men. They have drawns before also. However, even if they had, that would be a grand total of 3 championship losses in 9 years, all of which coming as shocks.. That is still total domination...

maestroamado

Is this thread closed?

rm75

maestroamado wrote: »

They dominate the gaa at football level which will eventually damage the gaa as can be seen already with attendance drops.
Because there is more people playing gaa in Dublin this is likely a factor in their domination especially when it comes to funding.
I cannot see them becoming a force in hurling anytime soon.

I think Kerry were the best time yesterday and expect them to win replay.

Cyclical isnt it but these things always come to an end eventually. It was the same when Kerry were dominating in the 70/80's and Kilkenny in hurling.

Traditionally the All Ireland was only ever between the Munster winner (Kerry/Cork) and Leinster winner (Dublin/meath/ Offaly). So this idea that there were more teams competing in the past in nonsense. Sure there was a brief northern emergence. Anytime one team dominates then attendances will drop but attendances werent great in the 80's either. We'll be looking at some great Kerry Dublin battles in the next few years, up to other counties to up their games and compete as well. This thrread is a monument to defeatism.

As for who wins the replay who knows but Kerry will eventually beat the Dubs. Other teams would be better served by stop making excuses and like Kerry trying to win. We're looking at some epic battles between Kerry and Dublin over the next few years. I'd hope other counties will try and challenge that but given the defeatism on display in this thread who knows whether that will happen.

Fan of Netflix

Bonniedog wrote: »

I will spare you the shame

Did "us" beat "youse" ?

Good night ladies. Early closing in Boar's Head today. Celebrations postponed to this day fortnight.

And no, none of you are invited.

Ah a good Cavan and GAA pub.

I was once kicked out of it would you believe. But Hugh is a sound man I've been back since. Nice Guinness. Bit small for me but I'm not surprised its popular with the GAA players

bruschi

Bonniedog wrote: »

What are you talking about?

I've been involved in Dublin GAA all my life, since the early 70s.

Our job is not to be part of some nonsensical social engineering project to fill low paying jobs and high rent slums. Our job is to maintain our tradition.

I won't be around to see the outcome of this assault on Irish society, and neither will the GAA.

In the meantime. I savour surviving examples of culture and courage and endeavour as displayed by the four teams in Croke Park yesterday,

That's what our association is about. Not being flak catchers for deracinated traitors.

not entirely sure what your post was addressing there. I simply stated that many posters said Dublin need extra money due to their population. Then we have other Dublin supporters saying that large numbers of their population dont and will not play GAA. So what is it? Do we have the investment made on a playing numbers basis or on a registered players basis?

Comments form other Dublin posters seem to directly contradict your own one there, and I'll grant you that you initially said previously that you see the investment as failed as it hadnt brought in numbers from previously weak catchment areas.

blanch152 wrote: »

The money was all about increasing juvenile participation with the twin aims of raising awareness of our national game and improving long-term health and fitness outcomes. It is succeeding very well in those objectives as seen by the huge number of kids in Dublin now playing the games. If you preferred, the government could have put money into promoting soccer and rugby in Dublin, but instead it chose our national games for this important initiative.

Strumms wrote: »

How many people live in Dublin ? How many play GAA ? It’s only appropriate that Dublin have their house in order to facilitate as best they can.. the experience of participating in the sport.

odyssey06 wrote: »

The funding to Dublin GAA was deliberately spread as widely as possible, because it's intention was to encourage participation and the spread of one of the most popular games in the state - not to aid the elite team directly.

STB. wrote: »

There is no direct correlation between development funding and the success of the current Dublin squad. The whole idea of development funding was to get more kids playing the game and not soccer, rugby, athletics, boxing, and other sports. And to get them sticking at it.

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

1) Shrewd management of finances (I would argue they are actually underfunded given the population size)

odyssey06 wrote: »

In 2017, Dublin received 14% of the funding for games development. If that is 10% by 2020, does that seem unreasonable given Dublin's size?
And yes there is a disconnect between Dublin's population and registered players, but some of the funding if it is for games promotion and schools should have a per capita element and be ring fenced for same (rather than be used for conditioning coaches for senior players).

As an aside, the result yesterday was never going to make an difference to the end result of the funding debate. Had Dublin won or lost, the disparity that was created would still have been the same. Some make really stupid comments about tainted or asterix All Irelands and cannot just enjoy the game for the spectacle that it is. It is a fine Dublin team, very skilful and athletic. No one should discredit them that.

It still doesnt mean that there is a huge gulf between the funding given to Dublin that helped them get to this position and other natural advantages that would more than likely have got them to this position too. However the funding just meant it pushed them on further and created a bigger gap to other counties.

Anyway, looks like the debate on this topic is close to being accepted on both sides, so I doubt the thread or discussion will go much longer!

maestroamado

naughtb4 wrote: »

So do you think Dublin dominate in GAA?

They dominate the gaa at football level which will eventually damage the gaa as can be seen already with attendance drops.
Because there is more people playing gaa in Dublin this is likely a factor in their domination especially when it comes to funding.
I cannot see them becoming a force in hurling anytime soon.

ThunbergsAreGo

maestroamado wrote: »

naughtb4 wrote: »

No I think you mis-understand,

The thread is about Dublin Dominance of GAA - Dublin do not dominate in GAA - in hurling, in camogie, at minor level at U-21 level etc.

Any "solution" needs to work across the board and not just be due to hand-wringing because Dublin are currently successful in one out of many elements of the GAA -namely Senior IC Football (Male and Female) - and even that will not last forever. (I actually think the women are more likely to go onto dominate more than the men)

I do not misunderstand at all, this thread in my opinion is about dominance in the gaa, i think if i am incorrect someone will advise as i think this thread starter one od the bosses here.

You cannot pick and choose the bits you want to talk about.
You do not want me to have a voice, you prefer switch to conversation gender.

So do you think Dublin dominate in GAA?

maestroamado

naughtb4 wrote: »

No I think you mis-understand,

The thread is about Dublin Dominance of GAA - Dublin do not dominate in GAA - in hurling, in camogie, at minor level at U-21 level etc.

Any "solution" needs to work across the board and not just be due to hand-wringing because Dublin are currently successful in one out of many elements of the GAA -namely Senior IC Football (Male and Female) - and even that will not last forever. (I actually think the women are more likely to go onto dominate more than the men)

I do not misunderstand at all, this thread in my opinion is about dominance in the gaa, i think if i am incorrect someone will advise as i think this thread starter one od the bosses here.

You cannot pick and choose the bits you want to talk about.
You do not want me to have a voice, you prefer switch to conversation gender.

ThunbergsAreGo

maestroamado wrote: »

Yes i agree with all of that which is great for gaa which i have being involved for years and support.
My point is because of the dominance of gaa in sport in this country, unfortunately our young people are not exposed to other sports.
Its not a criticism of gaa, its about spreading funding to other sports...

No I think you mis-understand,

The thread is about Dublin Dominance of GAA - Dublin do not dominate in GAA - in hurling, in camogie, at minor level at U-21 level etc.

Any "solution" needs to work across the board and not just be due to hand-wringing because Dublin are currently successful in one out of many elements of the GAA -namely Senior IC Football (Male and Female) - and even that will not last forever. (I actually think the women are more likely to go onto dominate more than the men)

maestroamado

salmocab wrote: »

No they were saying GAA is more than just football it’s also hurling camogie and across age grades and men’s women’s.

Yes i agree with all of that which is great for gaa which i have being involved for years and support.
My point is because of the dominance of gaa in sport in this country, unfortunately our young people are not exposed to other sports.
Its not a criticism of gaa, its about spreading funding to other sports...

salmocab

maestroamado wrote: »

No i didn't its called "spin" it happens all the time.
They were saying gaa only game in town and i agree...

No they were saying GAA is more than just football it’s also hurling camogie and across age grades and men’s women’s.

Bonniedog

bruschi wrote: »

Integration and expanding the reach?

What are you talking about?

I've been involved in Dublin GAA all my life, since the early 70s.

Our job is to maintain our tradition.

In the meantime. I savour surviving examples of culture and courage and endeavour as displayed by the four teams in Croke Park yesterday,

That's what our association is about.

maestroamado

salmocab wrote: »

I think you misunderstood what the poster was saying

No i didn't its called "spin" it happens all the time.
They were saying gaa only game in town and i agree...

salmocab

maestroamado wrote: »

You are correct, unfortunately because gaa so strong it is for the most part the only sport available to young people in this country.
This is not the fault of the gaa it is because of lack of funding by successive governments for other sports.

I think you misunderstood what the poster was saying

maestroamado

naughtb4 wrote: »

More then one sport in GAA, multiple levels and genders as well .......

You are correct, unfortunately because gaa so strong it is for the most part the only sport available to young people in this country.
This is not the fault of the gaa it is because of lack of funding by successive governments for other sports.

bruschi

ArielAtom wrote: »

And a lot of people living in Dublin are Culchies who head home every weekend as well as foreign nationals who have zero affiliation to the GAA, my son has 4 teachers from Cork who would be anti Dublin to say the least, so no benefit to Dublin GAA.

Hold on.

So you mean to tell me that the oft quoted "money spent per capita" is actually wrong? I mean, we are told that Dublin are underfunded if measured by population when people compare it to actual playing numbers and its pointed out that the money invested is for all the people of Dublin which is why you have to compare it to the population and not playing numbers.

But you now tell us that a lot of people living there dont actually register or play for Dublin clubs and that a large portion of foreign nationals have zero affiliation with the GAA? I thought that was what the money was for? Integration and expanding the reach?

Bonniedog

Dominance of Dublin GAA = pure courage and skill, and heroism as defined by Ernest Hemingway - "Grace under pressure."

ThunbergsAreGo

maestroamado wrote: »

naughtb4 wrote: »

But Dublin aren't dominating GAA.......

I have not being fallowing this thread.
I just heard in the commentary Dublin have won their last 43 championship games and the last 4 all Ireland titles.
Is this not dominating?

More then one sport in GAA, multiple levels and genders as well .......

ClanofLams

blanch152 wrote: »

Correct, they pay out extensive mileage to players at a level that makes them almost professional

This claim has been repeated fairly baselessly in this thread. It was also claimed they were getting mileage even when traveling on bus but I posted a document from GAA and Revenue which ruled that out.

If they’re getting this post the evidence otherwise it’s no more credible than lads saying the dubs don’t work.

Duffy the Vampire Slayer

tikkahunter wrote: »

What a game today , very entertaining. Hopefully another great game the next day . So does the funding compensate for being a man down in the second half or can’t you just except Dublin have a good team . Fair play to the Kerry boys they will win an AI in the next few years.

Dublin do have a great team. The funding argument doesn't exclude that possibility at all.

beggars_bush

blanch152 wrote: »

Correct, they pay out extensive mileage to players at a level that makes them almost professional

Professional drivers?

Dublin posters haven't a clue what rural counties have to do to field a competitive team

Donnielighto

blanch152 wrote: »

Correct, they pay out extensive mileage to players at a level that makes them almost professional

Are they getting more than expenses? I didn't realize that but wouldn't be ok if it's the case.

blanch152

Duffy the Vampire Slayer wrote: »

A lot of the money Mayo spent was on trasnport related costs. That's sonething Dublin rarely have to worry about.

Correct, they pay out extensive mileage to players at a level that makes them almost professional

MayoAreMagic

tikkahunter wrote: »

Oh I have countlessly throughout this thread but your sole agenda is pure hate for Dublin, but everytime your own counties lack of vision or scandals are brought up you sidestep the issue and spout more boil . Get your own house in order instead of worrying about Dublin . We spent years getting ridiculed and where a laughing stock so got our house in order and set out a plan and stuck to it .

Anyway I have to go get ready for another AI final so you just stew away there in your own bitterness and I’ll enjoy the day with the kids no matter the result and if Kerry do win then good luck to them at least they are a county and team that go about things the right way and they have a very decent set of supporters.

The order of anyone elses house is irrelevant to the discussion. Stop deflecting.
As for being a laughing stock - regularly contesting all ireland quarter and semi finals is far from that.
As for getting your house in order - the gaa bankrolled you with 17 million that nobody else got. That isnt getting your house in order, it is a handout from another source.

aodomhnaill

very quiet around here.