Kimsang wrote: » Markus Meechan was convicted under hate laws in Scotland for making a joke. He was in fact making a joke at the expense of nazis, but he was told by the court that context doesn't matter. Chelsea Russell was arrested for paying tribute to her dead friend by posting rap lyrics on a facebook page. What good does hate crime legislation do? It makes people feel better.
Omackeral wrote: » We have scumbags getting off with suspended sentences for far more serious crimes than saying offensive words or adding insult to injury. I'd much rather that was dealt with to be honest.
bobmalooka wrote: » I wasn’t advocating an offensive word being a crime in its own right, not sure where the reasoning for your response came from. I also don’t see why wanting serious crimes not to get suspended sentences has to be mutually exclusive with crimes being motivated by hate (in a defined manner) being recognized as such.
Stephen15 wrote: » Because I support justice being served. As a white person if I become a victim of crime I would like to see the perpetrator brought to justice. I would not like to see a situation where an <insert minority here> who gets attacked perpetrator gets a harsher sentence becuase of their race.
TaurenDruid wrote: » When someone attacks someone because of their nationality, sexuality, race or religion - it's a hate crime. When someone daubs swastikas or other graffiti on a place of worship - it's a hate crime. When someone urges violence against people or places because of their nationality, sexuality, race or religion or there are asylum seekers living there - it's a hate crime. When someone burns down a direct provision centre - it's a hate crime. It's not hard.
Stephen15 wrote: » I've said it before and will stand by it that nearly all crimes are motivated by a certain degree of hate
recedite wrote: » Blood and soil. These are the two main ways people get their citizenship. Jus soli and Jus sanguinis. Its correct that we cut back on jus soli (birthright or "law of the soil" citizenship) because it was being abused. That was done in a democratic referendum of the Irish people. That leaves Jus Sanguinis (right of blood) as the main one.We also have citizenship by naturalisation, when foreign people have been living here legally for 5 or more years.
Overheal wrote: » Oh then kiss me I’m Irish after all
cookie1977 wrote: » You're concerned and worried about Meechan??? That says it all.
Omackeral wrote: » Who decides what constitutes a hate-crime? Is it black and white, excuse the pun, or is it on a sliding spectrum. Would jurors, if required, by asked to judge for themselves? Would there have to be people of various colours, belief systems and ability on duty?
Eric Cartman wrote: » do you think its acceptable that a man ended up in front of a judge for teaching a dog to do a hitler salute for humour. It is not a sane or just world where that commands a court appearance.
cookie1977 wrote: » We're back on Stephen's favourite topic now...motive. Fawlty towers hitler salute - humourous Comedian who trains dog to do hitler salute and joins party which has an active nazi as an advisor - not humourous
pinkyeye wrote: » He didn't end up in front of a judge for teaching the dog a salute, he ended up in court because he put it on YouTube but continue on with your bs if you like. What about him joining UKIP? That doesn't show a bias in anyway no?
Eric Cartman wrote: » the court case was long before ukip , and who is the active nazi advisor ?
AndrewJRenko wrote: » Same as any other crime, which works fine in many other jurisdictions. The Gardai/police investigate and prepare a file, the DPP or equivalent decides if the matter should go to Court, the Judge or the jury (depending on the seriousness) decide if the accused is guilty. It works fine in many other countries.
cookie1977 wrote: » There's so many I never know where to start:https://forums.digitalspy.com/discussion/2313229/tommy-robinson-becomes-ukip-advisorhttp://home.bt.com/news/uk-news/ukip-mep-in-hitler-advice-row-11363925881904
Odhinn wrote: » Out of curiosity - do you think all "black" folk are equivalent and equal to the "white" folk?
Eric Cartman wrote: » a man who 'emulates hitlers speaking style' according to somebody at bt, not exactly a hard hitting news source, and tommy robinson is just an islamaphobic idiot, they invited him to make one submission about muslim rape gangs. He wasn't even a member and not a nazi even by his own affiliations. also going by the news sources youre digging up, you clearly just googled 'ukip nazi' and are posting whatever links stick. I don't believe for one second that the digitalspy forums and bt news are regular reads for yourself.
“On the whole evidence, including your own, applying the law as made by Parliament and interpreted by the most senior courts in this land, I found it proved that the video you posted, using a public communications network, was grossly offensive and contained menacing, anti-Semitic and racist material"
"It was a joke you *****" - Jonathan Pie
"We're not allowed to make fun of Nazis, in case it gets misinterpreted" -Jonathan Pie
Stephen15 wrote: » You don't know exactly what the trauma is for a person who is a victim of crime. A member of a minority group who is a victim of a prejudice motivated crime could be a stronger person who is less traumatised than an Irish person who is a victim of a non prejudice motivated crime.
Eric Cartman wrote: » explain to me how UKIP as a political party and their policies in any way resemble The NSDAP (Nazi) party ?
Joeytheparrot wrote: » We do know that though. There is a lot of evidence out there and it is widely accepted that hate crime is likely to have a more significant impact on its victims than non-hate motivated offences. We also know that many states and the EU specifically legally recognise hate crime because of the impact of hate crime generally on individuals, groups and society generally. It is not as if the idea of hate crime has been plucked out of nowhere for simply no reason.
Stephen15 wrote: » Well perhaps the impact on the victim can be taken into account on an individual case by case basis which is then taken into account when it comes to sentencing. If it is the case that a prejudice motivated crime or whatever you like to call it has a greater impact on the victim then that should be met with a greater sentence for the perpetrator so effectivelynthat achieves the same result as your proposed hate crime laws.
pinkyeye wrote: » Ah stop would ya. :D:D:D
AndrewJRenko wrote: » Same as any other crime, which works fine in many other jurisdictions.
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