strassenwo!f wrote: » Yes, of course it will be embarrassing for the powers that be to admit that they chose Saint Stephen's Green on the interconnector route, because the LUAS was there. But I think most people now understand that they did what they did simply because the Irish people couldn't have worn a situation where an interconnector route via College Green wouldn't have met with the LUAS. But now it could. The interconnector could be built through Colllege Green. A nice big space, 6-8 lanes of traffic, which will soon be silent, if the city gets its way. The metro could tie in with the DART Underground there. And the LUAS is there now. Integration of many modes.
L1011 wrote: » Maynooth Line alignment is so awful that any additional capacity that way for higher speed is going to have to be an 11 figure tunnel. There's absolutely no point trying to widen alongside the canal. Even if you somehow were able to remove the canal - never going to happen - it'd still be an awful alignment.
SeanW wrote: » I don't agree - in the past Sligo trains used to be faster even with the poor alignment. I remember around 2005 or so, the 18:10 from Connolly ran express to Mullingar in 1 hour, 1 minute. Can't do that in less than an hour and a half or so now. Large part of that is that Sligo and Longford trains have to fit in between Maynooth trains on one track each direction. Grade separating the level crossings and adding an express track would be awesome. Expensive, but hopefully would not cost 11 figures. It would also allow more local peak hour service to/from Maynooth. But CIE and Irish Rail need to start objecting to development on the non-canal side of this line.
D.L.R. wrote: » You could build a new line from Maynooth to Hazelhatch, and remove Sligo services to Heuston..
Last Stop wrote: » This would be a good shout! Even if just to preserve the path from future development to give that option in years to come
Qrt wrote: » Just looked at a map, and it's not even that far!
Sam Russell wrote: » It might be better to go Maynooth to Adamstown which is about 8 km. Much better that Athenry to Tuam as a rail project.
D.L.R. wrote: » Either way it would clear the Maynooth line for a high frequency "Metro" style service, so it makes the idea of a Metro-sized DU tunnel a workable option. A full size tunnel would be great of course, but if it remains too much for the state to handle then it simply won't be built. I'd take a metro DU in 10-20 years over a mainline DU in 30-40. When there's very little difference to the end user, its hard to justify the more expensive option.
Last Stop wrote: » But the tunnel wouldn’t be on the Maynooth line. The tunnel is going to be the same size regardless it’s the stations that will change. It would be very foolish to spend near enough the same money (it’s still going to be €2bn+) on a half arsed job. If the money isn’t there to do the full thing then don’t do it until the money is there. I still believe that a significant amount of value engineering can be done to reduce the costs without impacting the overall benefit of the scheme but reducing station sizes. It’s mad to think that on this thread people are suggesting cutting the capacity of the system in half to save money while on the metro there ad people moaned for ages that the platforms wouldn’t be long enough.
D.L.R. wrote: » A high frequency metro line wouldn't be a half arsed job, and could easily be configured to link to the Maynooth line.
donvito99 wrote: » Correct, the Royal Canal, Drumcondra and Northern Line alignments could all easily be routed into a DU tunnel beginning at Spencer Dock.
Last Stop wrote: » The route was planned to go to SSG to integrate with Luas and metro but also serve the main shopping and business district.
ohographite wrote: » If the Sligo trains passed Glasnevin just before the next DART did(on the other line) that should let the Sligo trains continue at speed most of the way to Maynooth. Does my idea have any complications?
bk wrote: » The thing is the shape of the city has changed radically since the original Dublin Area transport plans were laid out. SSG is definitely NOT the main business district any more! What major employers are around there other then a bunch of low height Victorian homes converted to solicitor offices. No, clearly the central business district of Dublin is now the IFSC and increasingly stretching into the Docklands. It is a very civil servant like opinion to think that SSG is the central business district. Makes sense since that area is mostly the Dail and other government offices. I suppose it would be better to call that area the main government/civil district. Docklands is definitely the major business district now. As for retail, the northern end of Grafton Street is much busier then the southern end and is seeing a lot more development. I could still totally see SSG being used as it is a relatively easy place to stick a station. But SSG definitely isn't the key location today that it was 30 years ago and that should be taken into account for any redesign of DU. We have already seen that with a much simpler station being put into SSG for Metrolink, then was previously envisaged for Metro North.
SeanW wrote: » Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't DU to go specifically out towards the Docklands? Seems to me like Pearse and SSG are somewhat different issues.
The Mulk wrote: » Extend it then from Hazel hatch to City west to pick up the red line, and then North from Maynooth to pick up Ashbourne, Swords and the Airport and on to the Dart line at Sutton.
Last Stop wrote: » You’ve just changed a relatively simple 8km line which added significant benefits to the network to a multi billion euro project with little extra benefit from the original
Last Stop wrote: » SSG is the most southerner point of the route so if you don’t go there, you don’t serve the offices and businesses to the south of here (Harcourt area) The interchange with Luas and Metro is also key. I would imagine that the will be DU across the northern side of the park with an entrance on each end so one for Luas and one from metro.
bk wrote: » Honestly I don't think there are enough offices in Harcourt St or in the the area in general to justify it on there own. A big issue with building at SSG is that it is a park, so it is quiet wasteful. An entire side of the station that takes up a lot of space can never be developed on. And even the buildings on the other side are mostly old listed Victorian buildings, so they will never be redeveloped or see any change from what they are today. I mean people are already managing to get to the offices in that area without DU and the numbers working there aren't likely to change in future given the nature of the area. As for Harcourt St, it is already well serviced by the Luas. People heading there could easily change from the DART to the Luas at a Tara St station. Luas is only a 2 minute walk away. As for interchange with Metro and Luas, well Tara would still integrate both of those and would be even a better integration: - Both of the future DART lines, the current one and future DU - Metrolink - Green Line Luas - 3 Minutes walk away - Red Line Luas - 3 Minutes walk away (though awkward across the quays and river). - All the various coach services that pass along the quays and have stops on the quays. - All the DB bus routes 3 minutes away on O'Connell St. Frankly it would become the single most important and well connected interchange in the city. Much more potential that SSG IMO. But again, I'm not saying it will definitely happen. SSG seems an "easy" option, the curve to Tara might be too tight, where to put the station at Tara might be problematic, etc. But I definitely think it should be considered. However I do want to mention that I don't think SSG is going to be as easy option as you imagine. For the original DU plan, they were going to tear SSG apart. Pull up mature trees, drain the ponds, etc. That is going to face severe public opposition. Much worse then any Metrolink faced. I don't think that plan will fly at all now, what we "green" issues so politically sensitive. I think you can see the NTA recognising that with their placement of the Metrolink station on SSG Road east, rather then in the park. So I don't think the original DU SSG plan of using the park is a starter at all. However if they do go with station boxes that only support 4 DART carriages, then by my measurements, they could fit a station in on the road to the north of SSG, without taking the part or severing the green line. Looks like you got about 230 meters there to play with. Probably more like 200 meters realistically. I suspect the redesigned DU will end up looking quite different from what was first proposed.
Last Stop wrote: » The problem is that Tara st won’t be able to handle the pressure from all services interchanging there.
bk wrote: » However if they do go with station boxes that only support 4 DART carriages, then by my measurements, they could fit a station in on the road to the north of SSG, without taking the part or severing the green line. Looks like you got about 230 meters there to play with. Probably more like 200 meters realistically.
bk wrote: » The thing is the shape of the city has changed radically since the original Dublin Area transport plans were laid out.SSG is definitely NOT the main business district any more! What major employers are around there other then a bunch of low height Victorian homes converted to solicitor offices. No, clearly the central business district of Dublin is now the IFSC and increasingly stretching into the Docklands. It is a very civil servant like opinion to think that SSG is the central business district. Makes sense since that area is mostly the Dail and other government offices. I suppose it would be better to call that area the main government/civil district. Docklands is definitely the major business district now. As for retail, the northern end of Grafton Street is much busier then the southern end and is seeing a lot more development. I could still totally see SSG being used as it is a relatively easy place to stick a station. But SSG definitely isn't the key location today that it was 30 years ago and that should be taken into account for any redesign of DU. We have already seen that with a much simpler station being put into SSG for Metrolink, then was previously envisaged for Metro North.
