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"Book readers" - Season 8 Episode 6 "The Iron Throne" - Spoilers post 2 forward

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Note anything after this post may contain spoilers for the episode; do not read or open this thread until you have watched the whole episode!!!

This is ONLY about the specific episode! No information from any other source but listed below are allowed to be posted but book related information is allowed as well as the lore from the DVDs. Anything relating to interviews or articles directly related to this episode can be posted with a spoiler tag.

The "Next Episode" and any speculation on what may come in the future episodes should be put in the appropriate stickied Season 8 speculation thread; any funny pictures from the episode should be posted in this thread until Wednesday rather than the funny picture thread.

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Greyfox

Nerdlingr wrote: »

Glad I'll never see Arya's smug little face again.
"I'll slit your throat if you say one more thing about my sister". Wow. Openly threatening a house leader at their first council

I'm glad she said that, such a badass and the coolest character ever in my opinion

theteal

So is the council make-up a symbol of the new world order. I mean, now that monarchs are voted in does that mean that maesters can have a family perhaps? Lady gold cloaks, why not? Also now that the North is free, Jon will be free to mosey all around up there, not exactly married to Castle Black, his "sister" is hardly going to shop him.

Now I'm kinda glad it's over. I didn't hate it - although season 6 really bugged me (is that the Sand Snakes one?) but I can't remember the detail for why, not watching it again. It's never been up there with the "best TV ever", it's always had great moments, spectacular at times but these made up for what ended up being quite average TV fare imo. I was in for the story and could overlook the "but why?" bits (I'm like a broken record in here on that one). I'm not going to go into those bits as they're listed enough times in this and other episode threads. I won't lament what could have been, it's done and it's been an entertaining ride. Thanks to all involved.

Anyway, when's the next episode of Chernobyl on???

[Deleted User]

pinkypinky wrote: »

I presumed he was just ranging with the Wildlings rather than leaving the Watch.

Ah no, he is the new Mance

[Deleted User]

OneOfThem Stumbled wrote: »

Varys: You take great offense at dwarf jokes, but love telling eunuch jokes. Why is that?
Tyrion: Because I have balls, and you don't.

was really the deafening announcement at the beginning of this series to tell us all how the writing quality would end up.

Would have been so easy to have a dig at Martin there.

Sam: Here is A Song of Ice and Fire
Tyrion: There are hundreds of blank pages...
Sam: Well... yeah... um... it is a long story to write after all.

Look to camera and tug collar

Roger Hassenforder

lawlolawl wrote: »

A wizard did it.

Also, he apparently abandoned Gilly and his child but this happened off screen for some reason.

Maybe she left him for being an annoying, gormless, cowardly fcuker

lawlolawl

facehugger99 wrote: »

One thing I was wondering was how did Sam get released from his Night's Watch vows?

A wizard did it.

Also, he apparently abandoned Gilly and his child but this happened off screen for some reason.

facehugger99

One thing I was wondering was how did Sam get released from his Night's Watch vows?

lawlolawl

Turtwig wrote: »

Somethings been bugging me. If Drogon flew off with Dany how did the unsullied know Jon killed her? There wasn't exactly any evidence she was dead.

The people running the show are such hacks that they think that if the audience sees something happening then somehow the characters also magically all know about it.

PhuckHugh

Thankfully that sh!te is over now.

[Deleted User]

I prefer Better Call Saul to Breaking Bad, but I haven't seen the latest season.

Necro

ixoy wrote: »

It also seems less.. angry. We're not as displeased it seems. Perhaps, for me, it's because I have little faith in the book material delivering *anything* nevermind anything better. I mean there's been some rightful criticism about how D&D wrote arcs after the book material ended, but the books themselves have lost a lot of their coherence and are, after the third book, not all that great themselves IMO.

Yeah that's just it. The books have already dipped in quality and it's not like Martin is rushing to print them anytime soon.

I'm happy to get an actual ending, but there are points in that episode that I really didn't like. Bran on the throne being the main one.

Blazer wrote: »

Not even close to the Wire or Battlestar Galactica.
Season 8 really really let it down big time.
Forget about the little things but when you're groaning at the TV at some of the decisions for these characters we've followed for the best part of 8 years it really lets it down.
Dexter went the same way although the rot had set in earlier.

Blargh I loved The Wire but let's not gloss over the fact that Season 5 for Wire was a shocking dip as well. That whole serial killer storyline was so out of place for the show. And then there's Omar... anyways that's getting way off topic.

Haven't seen Battlestar Galactica, so can't comment. But Sopranos is better than The Wire and GOT imo.

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

1. GoT
2. Wire
3. Breaking Bad

Scoring it higher, as it entertained me more!

Wire better charachters, dialogue. writing though.

I'm conflicted as to where I exactly place GOT in my top shows right now. Overall I think Sopranos is just a far better show, Wire for me is about on a par.

Then my own guilty pleasure is The Shield

Breaking Bad is a weird one as it actually improves as it progresses, the first couple of seasons are a bit meh tbh.

Don't agree that The Wire had better characters than GOT either, they're about on a par (at least until Season 5 they were, and Wire only had 4 good seasons).

Anyways my point is I think The Wire gets way too easy a time despite also having a sh1t last season.

TheIrishGrover

Best show ever? Sweet Jebus....... I never thought I'd say "Watch more TV".....

Anyway.....
Up to now my main complaint was with pacing. We ALL know it should have had at least a full 10 episode season and probably one more altogether to even out 7 & 8.

But this episode? I wasn't about pacing. It was trying to fit in as much fanservice as possible. Please as many people as possible by making it totally stylish but the only surprising thing was how little balls it had left.

Every.Single.Scene.... looked "cool". First appearance of Dany (And I REALLY hate the way they all call her Danny now but that's just me). First appearance of Dany? With huge f*cking wings. Walking out onto some very unconvincing green-screen. Giving her war speech with Drogon roaring beside her.

I mean, yeah, it looks cool. And, in previous seasons it would have been "Hell yeah" great. But it was just Bam. Bam. Bam. It's almost as if the whole episode was designed to be screen-captured for someone's wallpaper. Dany and Jon's last scene.....

And the whole episode was toothless. This was NOT the same show that gave us The Red Wedding. That killed off their main, most high-profile character even before the last episode of the first season. That showed and interesting arc of a callous, shallow man obsessed with his sister/lover trying to redeem himself simply for his own sense of self worth. This was a show that spent its budget on cool looking shots and not taking a single risk at all. Not one.

So, once again. My The Good, The Bad & The Meh

The Good

Tyrion finding Jaime and Cersie.
Tyrion and Jon's conversation in Tyrion's cell.
Drogon under the snow/ash
Brienne filling in Jaime's entry. Bit on the nose but we'll give it to them.
The fact that it was such a let down that I am immediately on to the next thing.

The Bad

REALLY bad green screen
Tyrion's monologue
The illogical choice of Bran as the king
The ease at which The Seven Kingdoms became The Six Kingdoms. Surely someone should have said "Wait, backing out for an "aye" is an option?"
Oh God. The Stark Banner on Arya's boat. OK. We knew she was gonna roam the earth but The Stark Banner on the sail? Really?
Bran...... Just.... Bran
Sansa needs a f*cikng sandwich
Not giving Thormond a line.
The sapling North of The Wall.... The whole point was that this Winter was gonna last years. I know there will be some who will say that's all changed now that The Knight King is dead but c'mon.....
Jon practically turning to the camera and saying "I'm home".......
Ser Poderic.
The people in the council. Of FFS. "Oh, that's nice. He got a job. I like that guy". Four years ago that character you liked would have been gutted half way through an episode.
I'm sure there are more but I couldn't be bothered

The Meh

Ammmmmm..... I got nothin'

Such a disappointment. Still, the trailer for Westworld looked good, huh?....... Huh?.....

iLikeWaffles

Turtwig wrote: »

Somethings been bugging me. If Drogon flew off with Dany how did the unsullied know Jon killed her? There wasn't exactly any evidence she was dead.

Exactly what I thought, could have seen the blood which probably should have been in the episode.

[Deleted User]

Turtwig wrote: »

Somethings been bugging me. If Drogon flew off with Dany how did the unsullied know Jon killed her? There wasn't exactly any evidence she was dead.

Jon's an idiot. Probably went out and announced it.

Nerdlingr

"If you think this is going to end well you haven't been paying attention"

Actually no. Scrap that. Let's tie it all up in a neat bow with some banter and a spin-off for Dora the Explorer.
Think I'm probably repeating what everyone else is saying on both threads on here, but what a let down in the end. Not this episode per say, but the last few seasons. They really killed it off with their character assassinations and warp speed time travel. May have we'll have had a transporter device to beam characters all over the place to where they needed to be.

Glad I'll never see Arya's smug little face again.
"I'll slit your throat if you say one more thing about my sister". Wow. Openly threatening a house leader at their first council meeting.
Yeah we know d&d love her and she's covered in plot armour but come on, Who thinks of this sh*t? Also magically appearing beside John and being captain obvious, smirking at her uncle edmure ... I wish someone had killed her off! That's my main gripe with the show!...

soz, got a.bit sidetracked there! I just don't like Arya! :-)

Turtwig

Somethings been bugging me. If Drogon flew off with Dany how did the unsullied know Jon killed her? There wasn't exactly any evidence she was dead.

Roger Hassenforder

cursai wrote: »

Closer to Deadwood or band of brothers than the Wire which is in a different league in terms of consistency and writing.

1. GoT
2. Wire
3. Breaking Bad

Scoring it higher, as it entertained me more!

Wire better charachters, dialogue. writing though.

Jelle1880

It had the potential to be the best show ever or at least up there, but seasons 7 and 8 have shat all over it's legacy imo.

This episode was decent until after Jon stabbed Dany. Everything after that was just another lazy attempt at ending the show.
So much stuff that was mentioned in previous episodes or even seasons and was just left unfinished.

Jon's lineage which ultimately didn't matter
Bran warging during the Battle of Winterfell
Arya's arc in becoming a faceless man
Jaime's arc
Brienne and Jaime
Bronn's subplot
Lord of Light
The Prince that was promised and Azor Ahai

cursai

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

Considering where the books are currently at, and Martin's nolens volens ability to finish, the differences , its a satisfying enough finish to 8 years excellent entertainment.

A few quibbles here and there, but overall, best TV show ever?
I think so.

Closer to Deadwood or band of brothers than the Wire which is in a different league in terms of consistency and writing.

Blazer

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

A few quibbles here and there, but overall, best TV show ever?
I think so.

Not even close to the Wire or Battlestar Galactica.
Season 8 really really let it down big time.
Forget about the little things but when you're groaning at the TV at some of the decisions for these characters we've followed for the best part of 8 years it really lets it down.
Dexter went the same way although the rot had set in earlier.

no.8

Daith wrote:

Haha, yes it's not subtle. The image of her with Drogon's wings behind her too. Plus the Unsullied (who seem to multiple like rabbits) looking very er, Nazi like.

The unsullied have never changed. It's just that you look on them differently now

razorblunt

pinkypinky wrote: »

I presumed he was just ranging with the Wildlings rather than leaving the Watch.

I’d thought so too until the little smirk as the gate closed.

Roger Hassenforder

Considering where the books are currently at, and Martin's nolens volens ability to finish, the differences , its a satisfying enough finish to 8 years excellent entertainment.

A few quibbles here and there, but overall, best TV show ever?
I think so.

pinkypinky

I presumed he was just ranging with the Wildlings rather than leaving the Watch.

razorblunt

jebidiah wrote: »

Jon taking the black makes a bit of sense actually. He doesn't want to be king, now he won't be. Won't hold titles so can't be declared, father no children, no kids with a claim etc etc

Was it not a case they told Greyworm that but in reality he’s not part of the watch he’s gone North-North?

I decided to watch Thronecast for the first time, holy shít it’s awful.

razorblunt

Stories are what unite people? Let’s free Aegon Targaeryan so, people won’t believe what’s happened to him.
As an episode it was ok, some fantastic cinematography but the ending would have had a greater impact if the series wasn’t as rushed.

Why was Bronn so quick to not tell Brann where Drogon was last seen?

OneOfThem Stumbled

paulbok wrote: »

Not sure what to make of King Bran, made some sense I suppose but made his 3 eyed Raven arc a bit pointless.

The entire series kept telling us that power resides only where people believe it resides. Why does a king have power? Because people obey him. Why do people obey him?

Bran is not a legitimate ruler. He is not heir. There's thousands of years of history stating that the oldest male heir is the one who should inherit. As Stannis said, "every law in Westeros" affirms this. Or as Robb said, "Bran cannot be lord of Winterfell before me". That's the way things are done there, for better or worse.

What army, what constitution, what holy writ backs up this upending of tradition? A dozen people voted, at the behest of Tyrion for Bran (the only candidate). Some of the people voting were not even lords. The Vale got two votes, the Reach got zero votes. Pretty fair distribution there.

Bran cannot father children, therefore the kingdom is liable to be thrown into chaos upon his death... if he can die. He is theoretically immortal after all. Who will back up this new idea of the lords and ladies voting on a successor? What force will stop someone using force of arms to ensure they become de facto leader of the kingdom?

If there even is a united kingdom in the first place. Why wouldn't all seven kingdoms just break away? What would force their obedience? Dorne and the Iron Islands have been nortoriously fickle in their allegiance to the Iron throne, constantly attempting the break away (even when the Iron Throne was strong). Now that it is non-existent, they will just accept Bran as their overlord?

Bran as ruler is possibly worse than Daenerys, who was certainly worse than Cersei, who in turn was worse than Joffrey.

Stories are what unite people? Then let's replace the guards and politicians with librarians. Idiotic writers. Damn.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

mrkiscool2 wrote: »

I sure hope so, that was just...bad. Like, people complained about the last episode. I didn't, mainly as I can understand it and there was things there. But there is no defending this. It was horrid.

Hoping that the previous episodes didn't have any influence on your opinion on this episode. Why was this episode terrible? What parts did not make sense or what did you not like about it?

RobbingBandit wrote: »

Cersei paid off the iron bank with the Highgarden wealth, Sam is a bloody novice he hasn't even forged his chain yet now he's Grand Maestar.

I believe Sam being promoted to Grand Maester is only there to serve as TV material. Sam has very little Maester training, let alone 40 years which is required. You could argue that he's something of a prodigy, but it's the conclave that decides who the Grand Maester to the Iron Throne will be, not the king. The reason why I think there might be an exception here, if you could believe that, is that Sam has been and absolute integral element in fighting the Night King, he also healed Ser Jorah Mormont of Grey Scale, is incredibly knowledgeable when it comes to the history of Westeros and killed a whitewalker. Sam, Sam killed a fcuking white walker.

Poor Tyrion those opening scenes poor poor Tyrion.

Oh man, I really feel for the guy. He chose the wrong queen and now his brother and sister are dead, along with countless innocents. I believe he's remorseful for his sisters death as he still had some hope she would cop on.

Ser Pod the chair pusher.

I love this character. Looks like he's Kingsguard now? Still a little too young and inexperienced, but that's TV.

How in the duck was the city including the port back up and running after a few weeks, these guys and their team of writers are gonna **** up Star Wars worse than Jar Jar

That port would have been running within hours/days of the battle, as it's logistically essential. Armies are amazing at this sort of thing.

The Hound Gone Wild wrote: »

The line about Tyrion not being mentioned in the Histories after Roberts rebellion sum up what the show became, nonsensical throwaway lines for a cheap laugh.

Tyrion's capture by Catelyn sparked the war of the 5 kings. He served as hand for 3 monarchs, and master of coin for a time. Was on trial for killing one king, defeated another at The Blackwater & killed the head of house lannister. Was married to the Queen in the North.

None of that worth a mention?

I think, and I am hoping, that it's just a joke and that Tyrion is in fact mentioned in the book several times.

Daith wrote: »

I liked watching the episode. Then I started to think about it more

Why didn't Grey Worm just kill Jon Snow? Why make him a prisoner?

Grey Worm is still a soldier and will do as commanded, that's how I understand it. It would be really out of character, and crappy writing, for Grey Worm to kill Jon.

Why is Grey Worm letting Tyrion, his other prisoner, decide who should be King?

TV :P, I am not really sure to be honest.

Why is everybody agreeing for Jon to go to the Wall, in order to satisfy an army who is leaving?

Is execution the alternative for Jon?

The White Wolf wrote: »

I find it difficult to believe the Unsullied and Dotraki played ball even if it was in their own interest.

I am not 100% sure what you mean here. Is it that they went home? I don't think they belonged in Westeros and I think they knew that too.

Necro wrote: »

They could have still had that ending in the North if Jon had just flown off on Drogon. Keeping him in Kings Landing as a prisoner where Greyworm had been slitting throats of prisoners not ten minutes prior just seemed ridiculous.

Grey worm was following orders. He's a soldier. It's all he knows.

pinkypinky wrote: »

Edmure tried to offer himself as king.

Was that what he was doing? I thought he was building himself up to declare. Never even thought of Edmure declaring himself. What a gobshíte :P

Things I didn't like:
Why would Brienne not mention that Jaime knighted her?
As above, Tyrion should absolutely be mentioned in the book.
Bran as king. Yeah, he's grand but zero personality

That 2 full seasons could have made this ending more satisfying but I suppose it'll do.

Is it customary to write who knighted who in the Kingsguard book? It may have been done before, but I don't think it's too important.

I think Bran, although somewhat sucker punching me, is a good choice for a king. It fits with "breaking the wheel" and he has no vested interests from what I can see. Bran has shown to be a good leader previously, when he tells Maester Luwin "if we can't help them when they need us, why should they help us" (that's not an accurate quote, sorry). He is honorable. I believe his quote in the show when Meera Reed asked him about him being Brandon; “I’m not, really. Not anymore. I remember what it felt like to be Brandon Stark, but I remember so much else now.”

Frankie5Angels wrote: »

Sansa: was always going to come out of this with something. Liked her consistency in that she wouldn't even bend the knee to Bran.

Great character. Really enjoyed her development and she really knew how to play the game. I think if there's a winner here, it's Sansa.

Jon: Follows the fate of Aemon Tagaryen it would seem. Glad Ghost finally got the attention he deserved, but a bit of a 'meh' ending for Jon. Being held prisoner, saying nothing of his birthright in the end...hmmmm.

However much I wanted him to become the king and for everybody to have a big group hug at the end. It's not true to his nature. I think he would make a terrible leader. Remember Tywins lecture to Tommen about the previous kings and their flaws, well if they spoke about Jon, being too honorable would have been his flaw.

No Worm: Worst character in the series. Useless. Beyond useless. Hated him. Makes Jar Jar Binks look like an Oscar-winning role. Corny ould sh1te sending him off to Naath. He killed a lot of innocents, he should have been killed.

Many opportunities to introduce some color to this drab, boring and almost pointless character. I really wanted to like him, but the accent and the blandness of him (and the unsullied) was just awful.

Tyrion: His decline as a character in this season is horrific. From mastermind to idiot. Pretty unrealistic end too: 'you shouldn't let me speak, for me speaking has resulted in many dying'. *speaks anyway, names Bran king*. Everyone else: "let's listen to the prisoner in ragged clothes who's responsible for the death of many and make Bran king and also change the way our ruler is chosen".

The Lords and Ladies present know Tyrion and even though he is a prisoner to a foreigner (how long are the unsullied in westeros?), there's an element of respect. They know he's smart and what he has to say, even if the show butchered that in the last couple of episodes, is worth listening to.

Arya: Ugh.

Careful now...

Bronn: what a terrible end to a great character.

Oh I couldn't disagree more. A sellsword who has risen up to be on the small council. What a glorious ending.

Drogon: I'm not sure why he didn't roast Jon (who prob would have survived) when he realised Dany was brown bread. Pretty poor, pointless ending for the dragons.

Thinking about this too. My theory is that Drogon knows that Jon was loved by Danerys. Drogon didn't witness the regicide. His fire breathing was out of frustration or anger. I don't know man, it's a dragon, what in the dusty fcuk do we know about dragons?

They'll prob not be published, but I hope the books serve up better fare than this last season.

I sure hope they are published

. I don't think there's any comparrison between novel and film/TV. Generally, I find books to be far better than their TV counterparts.

jebidiah wrote: »

All the lord's just laughed at the idea of democracy, I don't see how their attitudes to women in power would have changed either.

I don't think there's much, if any, objection to women rulers in the books or the TV show. There's some hints here and there to the contrary, but they can be classified as the opinions of a minority. The female leaders, with little or no objection are:

Lady Mormont (Incredibly stoic)
Sansa
Arya
Brienne (First female knight?)
Mellisandra
Cersei
Lysa Arryn
Rhaenys and Visenya (of the Westerosi lore)
Meera Reed
Yara Greyjoy
Chella of the Black Ears
Sand Snakes and their mother.
Karsi, wildling leader killed by children at Eastwatch by the Sea.
Osha
Ygritte?

Not all are leaders of armies, but they held power and people listened to what they had to say. They led.

All in all, I enjoyed the show. I was quite satisfied with the ending and I am happy with where the characters went (apart from Sandor Clegene). I think the last 2 seasons were quite rushed and some characters needed more development. Ned would certainly be proud of his kids, and each of them got what they wanted back in season 1, Sansa is queen, Jon is back at the wall (or is he a wildling???) and Arya is most certainly not a lady :P

There's certainly more than 13 episodes of material for Díckhead and Dípshít to work with. They could have gone to 20 episodes, and maybe even possibly 30 if they wanted to. But alas, other projects call and that's the story of life.

RobbingBandit

cursai wrote: »

What was Brianne doing writing Jamie's history. Wouldn't Sam have her up for defacing library books. Not to mention totally inaccurate. It's like she was writing on Wikipedia.

She was on the small council so I'd guess she's the head of Brans Kings Guard which is why she was filling in the pages for Jamie.

OneOfThem Stumbled

The Hound Gone Wild wrote: »

The line about Tyrion not being mentioned in the Histories after Roberts rebellion sum up what the show became, nonsensical throwaway lines for a cheap laugh.

Tyrion's capture by Catelyn sparked the war of the 5 kings. He served as hand for 3 monarchs, and master of coin for a time. Was on trial for killing one king, defeated another at The Blackwater & killed the head of house lannister. Was married to the Queen in the North.

None of that worth a mention?

Varys: You take great offense at dwarf jokes, but love telling eunuch jokes. Why is that?
Tyrion: Because I have balls, and you don't.

was really the deafening announcement at the beginning of this series to tell us all how the writing quality would end up.