Sick of being fat

Hey Pretzill,

I was in much the same boat as yourself. For me, calorie counting is absolutely the way to go. I certainly tried to cut down on carbs & sugars, but calorie counting was the main focus. Use MyFitnessPal if you're not already and take a proper count of you calorie intake. Try use the carbs/protein breakdown as a general guide too.

Focus on that for a while anyway and see how you're getting on. Also try to find snacks that are healthy or low calorie and have them between meals if you can. It'll help you reduce portion sizes for meals and you won't be hungry in between. Find a low fat yoghurt or something that you enjoy (it's vitally important to enjoy the food you're eating, it'll make it much easier to stick to it).

Pretzill wrote: »

Thanks again jim

I'm not a bit enamoured with the no wheat, no carbs, no animal fats - clean eating stuff that's becoming trendy - I'm neither a lover of fasting - but I can see these will work for some.

I do see the benefit in eating three balanced meals a day - This is how I was rared - In those days (cue sad music) I moved an awful lot more, treats were a rarity and I didn't drink alcohol. I was slim for a long time until I got to my mid thirties.

In recent years I've become a lover of supper - so I've gained a meal - (supper might be two slices of toast, or a crisp sandwich or cheese and crackers or carrots chopped up) I also enjoy a few drinks at the weekend (slightly above the rec guidelines adding up to 14 units a week) and my portion sizes have grown all told really.

So I'm trying to do this simply - cutting my calorie intake by up to 600 cals a day. Moving more and cutting alcohol. Basically going back to when I was younger and my world was poorer:o

I really spoil myself now because its easy to do so.

Good news - the low fat model is completely broken. Healthy fats (including dairy) are protective of obesity, so you can cut calories, but increase fats.

Continuing to eat only 3 square meals a day is actually good. Say you have dinner at 8, and then breakfast at 9, you have 13 hours where you have fasted in that situation. Lowers insulin resistance, increases insulin sensitivity (both good).

No carbs isn't what is recommended, just reduced carbs. Preferably no "highly refined carbohydrate".. so this means no bread (or crackers or cakes or anything) made from normal milled flour as it's highly refined, to fine particles and quickly absorbed by the body causing a significant insulin spike.

Healthy carbs are fine - potato and sweet potato, and starvy veg carbs are fine too.

Try to stop snacking between meals, if you are able, since it's all down to what you can do yourself.

If you don't snack, that means in between meals, you have periods of "low insulin" which helps weightloss.

Penn wrote: »

Hey Pretzill,

I was in much the same boat as yourself. For me, calorie counting is absolutely the way to go. I certainly tried to cut down on carbs & sugars, but calorie counting was the main focus. Use MyFitnessPal if you're not already and take a proper count of you calorie intake. Try use the carbs/protein breakdown as a general guide too.

Focus on that for a while anyway and see how you're getting on. Also try to find snacks that are healthy or low calorie and have them between meals if you can. It'll help you reduce portion sizes for meals and you won't be hungry in between. Find a low fat yoghurt or something that you enjoy (it's vitally important to enjoy the food you're eating, it'll make it much easier to stick to it).

Low fat yoghurt isn't a good choice - fat keeps you satisfied for longer periods than anything else.

Low fat yoghurts are generally full of sugar, as you need something to replace the fat content.

Sugar = the worst thing you can eat, as 50% (the fructose part, sugar being a disachharide if I spelled it right) of it is converted diretly to fat, as the body cannot process or use it.

Pretzill

Thanks both! It's all hypothetical at the moment and I do hope I can make those changes and stick to them - but without feeling I'm not ever again allowed have a slice of cake - I bake so I use very little sugar if I make a bun or cake (if any) but use fruit (I know but still a little more natural) instead - I like to have control over what I eat and I eat very little processed food. I also live out in the sticks with no access to take-aways - I love cooking but it's not always healthy. I recently got into greek natural yogurt (full fat) delicious (but a lot more calorific than I thought)

I know sugar is bad but since I stopped smoking this is by far my biggest problem - I started to love sweets, and chocolate again - I'm day 3 now without a sugary snack and I'm cutting snacks altogether. I don't want to think of this as a diet. The only times I've actually dieted in my life I put on weight after stopping. And when I smoked i had the luxury of being able to eat and drink anything without putting on extra weight.

Pretzill wrote: »

Thanks both! It's all hypothetical at the moment and I do hope I can make those changes and stick to them - but without feeling I'm not ever again allowed have a slice of cake - I bake so I use very little sugar if I make a bun or cake (if any) but use fruit (I know but still a little more natural) instead - I like to have control over what I eat and I eat very little processed food. I also live out in the sticks with no access to take-aways - I love cooking but it's not always healthy. I recently got into greek natural yogurt (full fat) delicious (but a lot more calorific than I thought)

I know sugar is bad but since I stopped smoking this is by far my biggest problem - I started to love sweets, and chocolate again - I'm day 3 now without a sugary snack and I'm cutting snacks altogether. I don't want to think of this as a diet. The only times I've actually dieted in my life I put on weight after stopping. And when I smoked i had the luxury of being able to eat and drink anything without putting on extra weight.

Personally I have a very sweet tooth. Although I love every type of food, foreign, Irish, sweet, savoury, alcohol.. you name it, I love it!

So I'm eating really healthy Mon to Fri, with a fair bit of fasting included.. but at the weekend I have a few drinks, I may eat some sweets or some doritos (but a LOT less), I might have some nice stoneground wholewheat bread, or a pizza or a take out even..

I'm FAR from perfect, but eating well the majority of the week is a massive benefit and I am still losing weight regardless.

Sure don't we celebrate by feasting for all of human history that we know about? our culture is obsessed with food, you couldn't be expected to go without good food.

Do what you think you are able to do is the best advice, know what's good and bad so you can make the best decisions. Reward yourself when you need a reward and don't feel guilty about it either! :cool:

jim o doom wrote: »

Low fat yoghurt isn't a good choice - fat keeps you satisfied for longer periods than anything else.

Low fat yoghurts are generally full of sugar, as you need something to replace the fat content.

Sugar = the worst thing you can eat, as 50% (the fructose part, sugar being a disachharide if I spelled it right) of it is converted diretly to fat, as the body cannot process or use it.

I found as a small snack inbetween meals, the yoghurts I was having were great. I know they're not the best thing I could have eaten, but again, it's important to eat things you enjoy. I did have other snacks all the time too, but the yoghurts were one of my main ones and I had great success. Even though it's converted to fat, if you're at a calorie deficit you're still burning fat off regardless.

Penn wrote: »

I found as a small snack inbetween meals, the yoghurts I was having were great. I know they're not the best thing I could have eaten, but again, it's important to eat things you enjoy. I did have other snacks all the time too, but the yoghurts were one of my main ones and I had great success. Even though it's converted to fat, if you're at a calorie deficit you're still burning fat off regardless.

Like I said above, I'm far from perfect and I snack on bad stuff too. Particularly at the weekend.

The reason I meantioned it being bad is so that he can be aware of it. Lowering fat in an item and then increasing sugar is obviously bad, sugar is worse than fat, but a lot of people see "low fat" and incorrectly assume that the item is healthy. It defo isn't.

Sure might you not have a mini mars bar instead, it's also full of sugar, and you can burn the calories off as you said yourself!

The problem with a standard calorie deficit diet is - adaptation to lowered calories (generally after 6 months to a year), something which you see in real life with "weight loss plateus". Which strangely enough doesn't occur with fasting!

I do agree with reducing calories, and trying to snack healthy as you can. I eat bad stuff also, literally just 3 chocolate sweets 2 minutes ago as I was hungry enough to eat the chair I'm sitting on.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HLF29w6YqXs

Penn wrote: »

I found as a small snack inbetween meals

I also snack too, but much less at the moment. Every time you eat, you produce insulin (the chemical which stores fat), and constantly elevated insulin leads to insulin resistance, which leads to obesity and potentially diabetes.

I still snack though! Just some days no snacks, other days more snacks due to hunger. Play it by ear I say, just try to reduce where you can and try to eat healthy when you can.

Sure we're only humans :P

Alf Veedersane

jim o doom wrote: »

I also snack too, but much less at the moment. Every time you eat, you produce insulin (the chemical which stores fat), and constantly elevated insulin leads to insulin resistance, which leads to obesity and potentially diabetes.

Rather than get into it again, I'd recommend reading this and even listening to the podcast with Jason Fung.

https://sigmanutrition.com/episode85/

Fairly balanced.

Mellor

jim o doom wrote: »

I also snack too, but much less at the moment. Every time you eat, you produce insulin (the chemical which stores fat), and constantly elevated insulin leads to insulin resistance, which leads to obesity and potentially diabetes.

If you don't snack, that means you meals must be bigger to achieve the same calorie intake over the day. More food means a greater insulin response.
So my not snacking, you end up with greater spike in insulin, and you are constantly high insulin levels that the person snacking doesn't hit.

Which is worse? Multiple small insulin spikes, or fewer larger spikes?
Neither would appear to be particularly better to me.

ardinn

This thread seemed to be in bold when I scrolled through boards - it wasnt, it just jumped at me - so I think im obliged by spiritual intervention to tell you my story - Its only 2 months old!

So - Im a big fan of the JRE podcasts, a lot of guests recently have been talking of the carnivore diet - anyone familar with JRE will know there is a lot of nutritionists, bodybuilders, athletes etc, but the one that struck me was jordan peterson. Ill link the section below.

Anyway

Im 6ft - 35 - and hovered between 15st 8 and 15st 11 the last 3 or 4 years - pretty much the op's twin

So I basically started eating nothing but meat and veg - tonnes of it - dont Ever let yourself be hungry - I was a big snacker, late at night especially - after about a week the carb cravings went away and potatoes pasta (my favourite) and bread were really all I cut out - I switched the crisps to nuts, not healthy ones either - salted or roasted or whatever.

Anyway - within the 1st 3 weeks I saw 14st 13 appear on the scales - 3 days ago I was 13st 12

Id like to point out i have not done any exercise whatsoever - I eat like crazy - I cheat about every 2-3 days with a spud or a bag of crisps. I drink about three bottles of lucozade a day and take three sugars in my tea - I drink a lot of tea.

Sugar is bad - but not as bad as people make out - Salt is an essential mineral, slandered by the sugar industry - get it into ye!

My back pain is gone
Arthritis in my fingers is gone
I stay awake longer
I can concentrate more
I wake up earlier and dont feel like i was hit by a bullock

Try it for a month

If your serious try a solid elimination diet - add back one item a week and see how you feel - if its good, keep - if it wrecks you get rid.

15/8 to 13/12 in 7.5 weeks - by doing feck all - It really didnt hurt and I loved my spuds i tells ya!

Anyway this will explain a lot more than i can.

Week 1 103.4kg
Week 2 100.2kg
Week 3 99.6kg
Week 4 99.1kg
Week 5 97.9kg
Week 6 97.8kg
Week 7 98.6kg
Week 8 no weigh in
Week 9 no weigh in
Week 10 97.2kg
Week 11 94.9kg
Week 12 94.3kg
Week 13 no weigh in
Week 14 92.2
Week 15 no weigh in
Week 16 no weigh in
Week 17 90.8kg

Total weight loss 12.6kg

Didn't weigh in for a few weeks, was getting the sitting room done up and the Wii U I weigh myself on was unplugged. Diet hasn't been great but I've stayed very active and my watch shows my burning about 700 calories each day. I can now stay active from 7 am till 7 pm no problem, on my feet all day.
Only 0.8 to reach a goal I thought nearly impossible only a few months ago. Hopefully going to start the cycling again shortly to help get me well below 90kg. My ultimate goal is around 80kg with a bit of muscle tone.

silverharp

Alf Veedersane wrote: »

Rather than get into it again, I'd recommend reading this and even listening to the podcast with Jason Fung.

https://sigmanutrition.com/episode85/

Fairly balanced.

I agreed with pretty much everything he said, the couple of things I’d differ on emphasis were that he said that all researchers understand how hormones work in the body, maybe they do but that doesn’t filter down to the general public and probably a lot of people involved in nutrition. Then he rightly said that thyroid issues would affect someone’s energy balance but seemed to want to step back a bit with insulin having the same effect? The way I’d see it and Fung will have used the argument is that if you want to get someone to gain weight, simply inject them with insulin which will have the effect of down regulating their energy balance.

Lads can I just say yous are going a little overboard with all this stuff. This is a weight loss thread and we're trying to get people to put down the big Mac's and support each other.
I'm not saying this stuff isn't true, well some of it anyway but the battle most people here are fighting is a physiological one and the information your providing would he more useful to an athlete.
I'm loosing loads of weight and I'm still eating all the food groups. I just change the portions around to be veg heavy but I'll still have some mash or some chips or pasta or whatever. When I'm at my ideal weight and want to improve further I'll start worrying about the macros and insulin etc.
Keep it simple people.

[Deleted User]

Wish I could thank that twice. :pac:

Control calories and be more active and you will lose weight. Over-complicating can feel good for a while but it has plenty of downsides. If someone has an all-or-nothing thought process then it just means more ways to trip up and then give up.
If something is working for you and feels good and sustainable then keep with it until that changes or it no longer works. I've been losing weight while eating a roll for lunch, a noodle pot most days then just some crappy meat from the freezer and a salad most days. I'm fat and just got calories under 2000 and got used to it after a few days and guess what, I'm losing weight pretty quickly. I'll worry about insulin resistance when I'm within a stone of where I want to be, not when I still have another 4-5 stone to get off.

EDIT: I've lost weight before a few times either by increasing exercise or going super-low carb or both. Long-term they didn't work out, though it's a psychological thing. Hopefully this time it sticks.

iamtony wrote: »

Lads can I just say yous are going a little overboard with all this stuff. This is a weight loss thread and we're trying to get people to put down the big Mac's and support each other.
I'm not saying this stuff isn't true, well some of it anyway but the battle most people here are fighting is a physiological one and the information your providing would he more useful to an athlete.
I'm loosing loads of weight and I'm still eating all the food groups. I just change the portions around to be veg heavy but I'll still have some mash or some chips or pasta or whatever. When I'm at my ideal weight and want to improve further I'll start worrying about the macros and insulin etc.
Keep it simple people.

Have to agree. I lost 8 stone in a year simply by calories in, calories out. As simple and as flexible a weightloss program as it gets.

Penn wrote: »

Have to agree. I lost 8 stone in a year simply by calories in, calories out. As simple and as flexible a weightloss program as it gets.

Amazing, I'd say you feel great now. And you probably can count the calories in your head at this stage like I can and look at a plate and say yeah that's about 500 calories.

silverharp

every diet will make you lose weight that's not really the issue, though depending on age compounding issues not everything will be linear. Once you are prepared to eat for ever what you ate on the "last day" of your diet then its whatever floats your boat

Alf Veedersane

iamtony wrote: »

Lads can I just say yous are going a little overboard with all this stuff. This is a weight loss thread and we're trying to get people to put down the big Mac's and support each other.
I'm not saying this stuff isn't true, well some of it anyway but the battle most people here are fighting is a physiological one and the information your providing would he more useful to an athlete.
I'm loosing loads of weight and I'm still eating all the food groups. I just change the portions around to be veg heavy but I'll still have some mash or some chips or pasta or whatever. When I'm at my ideal weight and want to improve further I'll start worrying about the macros and insulin etc.
Keep it simple people.

Yup. Apologies.

I do try and keep it simple because I think simple works if you actually follow through.

iamtony wrote: »

Lads can I just say yous are going a little overboard with all this stuff. This is a weight loss thread and we're trying to get people to put down the big Mac's and support each other.
I'm not saying this stuff isn't true, well some of it anyway but the battle most people here are fighting is a physiological one and the information your providing would he more useful to an athlete.
I'm loosing loads of weight and I'm still eating all the food groups. I just change the portions around to be veg heavy but I'll still have some mash or some chips or pasta or whatever. When I'm at my ideal weight and want to improve further I'll start worrying about the macros and insulin etc.
Keep it simple people.

Ok here it is simple

Bad stuff: Sugar and wheat. Try and reduce it you can, especially sugar. Also snacking very regularly, also Try to reduce it IF you can.

Generally bad: highly processed foods. biccies, sweets, "low fat foods" (many of which contain high sugar which is in bad stuff).

Good stuff: vegetables, fruit, meat (but keep meat protein to 20% to 30% of over all intake.)

Not that bad stuff: potatos and sweet potatoes - they are not highly refined.

Protective of obesity stuff: vinegar and fibre. Can reduce obesity.

Stuff people think is bad but actually isn't: healthy fats, such as dairy. Very filling, keeps hunger at bay for long periods of time.

Very good stuff that is hard to do at first: fasting. Massive health benefits and definite weight loss benefits.

Ta daa

The important thing to remember is do what you can do, and be aware of what is bad.

We use food to celebrate, so it's ok to eat bad food some of the time. Just don't do it ALL of the time. If you eat biscuits every day with tea, which contain lots of sugar and wheat, you are going to struggle to lose weight.

iamtony wrote: »

Amazing, I'd say you feel great now. And you probably can count the calories in your head at this stage like I can and look at a plate and say yeah that's about 500 calories.

Yeah pretty much. When I finished the diet I was hitting 1,200-1,300 calories a day. I've stopped using MFP now that I'm (mostly) off the diet, but I know I'm still probably eating maybe 1,400-1,700 max, and still weighing myself weekly to keep an eye on things. But like silverharp said, "Once you are prepared to eat for ever what you ate on the "last day" of your diet then its whatever floats your boat". I'm still eating what I was eating when I was dieting, maybe with something extra or slightly bigger portions. But I enjoyed the food I was eating when I was on the diet, so that's still the food I'm eating now. I can afford to be more flexible with it, but my metabolism has definitely changed so I know I can't afford to change things too much too quickly either.

It's all about what you can stick to both short and long term. I mean if people can stick with Jordan Peterson's meat-only diet, fair play. I sure as hell wouldn't try to. Same with keto and intermittent fasting, they just wouldn't work long-term for me. Short bursts, maybe, but I'd find it too restrictive and not enjoyable.

That's why when it comes to weightloss, first port of call is calorie counting. Then you can segue into different types of diet if you want or choose to, but even many of the types of diets out there (Slimming World, Keto, IF) still have calories in vs calories out at their core. So long as you enjoy whatever path your diet takes, go for it. But there's no one way that will suit or work for everyone. Even calories in vs calories out, some might much prefer to try burn off more calories so they don't have to restrict their food as much.

Penn wrote: »

It's all about what you can stick to both short and long term.

Very well put indeed. I saw statistics about the full keto diet, which showed better weightloss and better health markers (bad cholesterol and the like) than calorie restriction over 6 months..

..but over one year, all the keto group (and calorie restricters) regained the weight, because the diets were unsustainable.

Fasting is absolutely not for some people. A good friend of mine suffest horrible gas and cramps if he goes without food (stomach issues).

For me it works great. It's easy (for me) to just not eat for x number of hours. Even if it's having dinner at 8 and skipping breakfast and eating a lunch the next day.

But no diet is universal, it's all down to what you can do, and do in the long term.

Glad your one is working for ye!

jim o doom wrote: »

Very well put indeed. I saw statistics about the full keto diet, which showed better weightloss and better health markers (bad cholesterol and the like) than calorie restriction over 6 months..

..but over one year, all the keto group (and calorie restricters) regained the weight, because the diets were unsustainable.

Fasting is absolutely not for some people. A good friend of mine suffest horrible gas and cramps if he goes without food (stomach issues).

For me it works great. It's easy (for me) to just not eat for x number of hours. Even if it's having dinner at 8 and skipping breakfast and eating a lunch the next day.

But no diet is universal, it's all down to what you can do, and do in the long term.

Glad your one is working for ye!

Cheers. I was kinda doing IF most weekends anyway just out of the fact that I tended to not eat early on weekends, so it was close enough to 16:8 without even realising it most of the time. But during the week it just wouldn't have worked out for me. Early start due to commute, small office with coffee breaks, possible delayed lunches due to meetings or sometimes being on the road. I know I just would have found it too restrictive for me to stick to regularly. Don't deny the benefits of it, just wasn't beneficial enough for me.

jim o doom wrote: »

Ok here it is simple

Bad stuff: Sugar and wheat. Try and reduce it you can, especially sugar. Also snacking very regularly, also Try to reduce it IF you can.

Generally bad: highly processed foods. biccies, sweets, "low fat foods" (many of which contain high sugar which is in bad stuff).

Good stuff: vegetables, fruit, meat (but keep meat protein to 20% to 30% of over all intake.)

Not that bad stuff: potatos and sweet potatoes - they are not highly refined.

Protective of obesity stuff: vinegar and fibre. Can reduce obesity.

Stuff people think is bad but actually isn't: healthy fats, such as dairy. Very filling, keeps hunger at bay for long periods of time.

Very good stuff that is hard to do at first: fasting. Massive health benefits and definite weight loss benefits.

Ta daa

The important thing to remember is do what you can do, and be aware of what is bad.

We use food to celebrate, so it's ok to eat bad food some of the time. Just don't do it ALL of the time. If you eat biscuits every day with tea, which contain lots of sugar and wheat, you are going to struggle to lose weight.

Oh I know all about this stuff, when I started all of this for the first time about 5 years ago it was great help and I too used to tell everyone all about it but I went back to the normal diet eventually.
Now I've learned it's not so much a change in diet I need but a lifestyle change and understanding what the impulse to gorge massive amounts of food and finish everyone's plate even though I knew I'd be so stuffed that I wouldn't be able to move is.
I learned about addiction, and what causes it and it's help get my smoking, drinking and eating all under control. I haven't had a cigarette since 2017, I was drinking most nights of the week and my liver was paining me but it still didn't put me off drinking, now I rarely drink, once a month maybe. Obesity was getting to a level I was uncomfortable all the time. Tieing my shoelaces became an effort. All the time I knew I was shortening my life but the side of my brain that controls all these impulses didn't care and it's stronger than the logical side unless we start training it.
See what I'm saying. It's easy to tell people what they should be eating but it's not that easy to break addictions we have built over years and years. I think better advice would he to read a few books on addiction and get to know what's going on your head that you keep doing stuff even though you know you shouldn't.

caviardreams

Interesting study here just published
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1550413119302487?via%3Dihub

Processed versus unprocessed diet - those on a processed diet ate on average 500kcals extra per day over the 2 week trial and gained 1kg - the excess calories were the cause of the weight gain not the fact it was processed food, though processed/junk food encouraged individuals to consume extra calories.

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-019-01523-w?utm_source=Nature+Briefing&utm_campaign=8b64b295bc-briefing-wk-20190517&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_c9dfd39373-8b64b295bc-43966249

TL;DR

It's all about the calories!

q85dw7osi4lebg

No change in 4 weeks, not bad considering there was a holiday to Spain thrown in. Back to the grind now.