Rise of Vegetarian/Veganism

if theres one thing worse than militant vegetarians its militant meat promoters

Still waters wrote: »

if theres one thing worse than militant vegetarians its militant meat promoters

The thing is there's very few of them tbh. And as you're an Irish farmer I'm sure you know that already. Most people I know eat a normal balanced diet including meat and dairy and vegetables. That said - I really don't give a proverbial ****e what others eat. What about you?

gozunda wrote: »

The thing is there's very few of them tbh. And as you're an Irish farmer I'm sure you know that already. Most people I know eat a normal balanced diet including meat and dairy and vegetables. That said - I really don't give a proverbial ****e what others eat. What about you?

Theres very few of either if the truth be told. all I see is big billboards promoting lifestyles and either side taking offense

Still waters wrote: »

Theres very few of either if the truth be told. all I see is big billboards promoting lifestyles and either side taking offense

Lifestyles - is that the ones alleging you are betraying and abusing animals? Interesting - can you tell us more about that?

gozunda wrote: »

Lifestyles - is that the ones saying you are betraying and abusing animals? Interesting - can you tell us more about that?

I don't abuse my animals and if you don't you have nothing to worry about, they're interpretations of abuse and betrayal is not something I mull over, you need to step back from your online self appointed crusade against anyone who says anything negative about farmers

Still waters wrote: »

I don't abuse my animals and if you don't you have nothing to worry about, they're interpretations of abuse and betrayal is not something I mull over, you need to step back from your online self appointed crusade against anyone who says anything negative about farmers

Good for you that you rightfully believe that you as a farmer don't 'betray and abuse' (sic) your animals. Unfortunately those billboards say otherwise. Me - I stand up against all kinds of bull****, directed at farmers, animals and all others. What about you? What's your "crusade"? (sic)

gozunda wrote: »

Good for you that you think you as a farmer don't betray and abuse animals. The billboards say otherwise
Me - I stand up against all kinds of bull****, directed at farmers or otherwise. What about you?

You must be busy, farmers have quite a lot to put up with these days

Still waters wrote: »

You must be busy, farmers have quite a lot to put up with these days

As you are an Irish farmer, thanks for the advice. But no need I'm good thanks.

auspicious

gozunda wrote: »

Thank you for proving my point.

How's that's supposed to be representative of Irish farmers / food producers :rolleyes:

Have you seen what happens to people who grow avocados under threat of the South American drug lords or the women in India who have their hands burned during the processing cashew nuts? Let's take extreme stories of bastards and examples of those who actually dont give a f***

Its common, and the treatment of people who provide these foodstuffs imported and eaten by people here ...

https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2013/nov/02/cashew-nut-workers-pay-conditions-profits

https://www.theguardian.com/food/shortcuts/2018/dec/10/should-you-stop-eating-blood-avocados

In reply to this post:

This thread is not supposed to be representative of Irish farmers / food producers. The OP never mentioned that.

The rise of veganism started as a result of the dissemination of ideas, views and knowledge across the World Wide Web.
People became educated about the standard practices and not so standard practices of animal agriculture. They gained the knowledge that one can live and thrive on plant based diets thereby eliminating animal suffering. Like it or not, animals must suffer throughout the industry, globally, for humans to be able to comsume their bodies and secretions.

In relation to the avocado problem in the part of the world highlighted I agree. One must make informed choices and look elsewhere or not buy it. But to be fair vegans only make up 1% of the population, therefore the vast majority of avocados are been bought and eaten by non-vegans.

Yes in certain parts of the world people are exploited, not only for a small fraction of vegan foodstuffs but also and to a greater extent, for and as a result of meat industries.

Becoming vegan not only lessens the suffering which animals endure but also proactively combats human rights issues.

Here are some examples:

82% of starving children live in countries where the food is fed to animals and the animals are eaten by western countries.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://comfortablyunaware.com/blog/the-world-hunger-food-choice-connection-a-summary/&ved=2ahUKEwjGuJHAroXiAhUsUhUIHZOUA_cQFjAAegQICRAB&usg=AOvVaw2abY7QP5og-gXJn1VISGCP

The grain used to feed American livestock alone could eradicate world hunger and feed 800 million hungry men, women and children.

Plenty of scholarly studies in Britain and the States confirm longterm slaughterhouse employees can suffer psychological distress such as PTSD for example, resulting in increased domestic and societal violence, alcohol and drug abuse, also depression, anxiety and carpal tunnel syndrome and more from exposure to the daily routine in meat factories.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://yaleglobalhealthreview.com/2016/01/25/a-call-to-action-psychological-harm-in-slaughterhouse-workers/amp/&ved=2ahUKEwjs85rCsIXiAhXCShUIHUJTBBkQFjAAegQIBRAB&usg=AOvVaw3XJbb1zT9xqBnP9Uq6aCYP&ampcf=1

In Bangladesh for example the exploitation of leather tannery workers where 95% die before the age of 50 as a result of exposure to the toxic chemicals used to process leather. These chemicals find a way into rivers and streams which flow through nearby communities and poison the people there.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.ucanews.com/news/bangladeshi-tannery-workers-face-health-and-safety-crisis/84401&ved=2ahUKEwjj4puLsoXiAhVyQxUIHUyzD-gQFjAEegQIBRAB&usg=AOvVaw3jtOvOBuThZ351iutVq4KL

uck51js9zml2yt

auspicious wrote: »

In reply to this post:

This thread is not supposed to be representative of Irish farmers / food producers. The OP never mentioned that.
The rise of veganism started as a result of the dissemination of ideas, views and knowledge across the World Wide Web.
People became educated about the standard practices and not so standard practices of animal agriculture. They gained the knowledge that one can live and thrive on plant based diets thereby eliminating animal suffering. Like it or not, animals must suffer throughout the industry, globally, for humans to be able to comsume their bodies and secretions.

In relation to the avocado problem in the part of the world highlighted I agree. One must make informed choices and look elsewhere or not buy it. But to be fair vegans only make up 1% of the population, therefore the vast majority of avocados are been bought and eaten by non-vegans.

Yes in certain parts of the world people are exploited, not only for a small fraction of vegan foodstuffs but also and to a greater extent, for and as a result of meat industries.

Becoming vegan not only lessens the suffering which animals endure but also proactively combats human rights issues.

Here are some examples:

82% of starving children live in countries where the food is fed to animals and the animals are eaten by western countries.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://comfortablyunaware.com/blog/the-world-hunger-food-choice-connection-a-summary/&ved=2ahUKEwjGuJHAroXiAhUsUhUIHZOUA_cQFjAAegQICRAB&usg=AOvVaw2abY7QP5og-gXJn1VISGCP

The grain used to feed American livestock alone could eradicate world hunger and feed 800 million hungry men, women and children.

Plenty of scholarly studies in Britain and the States confirm longterm slaughterhouse employees can suffer psychological distress such as PTSD for example, resulting in increased domestic and societal violence, alcohol and drug abuse, also depression, anxiety and carpal tunnel syndrome and more from exposure to the daily routine in meat factories.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://yaleglobalhealthreview.com/2016/01/25/a-call-to-action-psychological-harm-in-slaughterhouse-workers/amp/&ved=2ahUKEwjs85rCsIXiAhXCShUIHUJTBBkQFjAAegQIBRAB&usg=AOvVaw3XJbb1zT9xqBnP9Uq6aCYP&ampcf=1

In Bangladesh for example the exploitation of leather tannery workers where 95% die before the age of 50 as a result of exposure to the toxic chemicals used to process leather. These chemicals find a way into rivers and streams which flow through nearby communities and poison the people there.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.ucanews.com/news/bangladeshi-tannery-workers-face-health-and-safety-crisis/84401&ved=2ahUKEwjj4puLsoXiAhVyQxUIHUyzD-gQFjAEegQIBRAB&usg=AOvVaw3jtOvOBuThZ351iutVq4KL

I will stop wearing leather shoes, belts etc and use ones made from petroleum products.

auspicious wrote: »

In reply to this post: This thread is not supposed to be representative of Irish farmers / food producers. The OP never mentioned that.

I'd agree and yet a previous poster brought that up in an attempt to throw ****e. Is that not strange perhaps?

The rise of veganism started as a result of the dissemination of ideas, views and knowledge across the World Wide Web.
People became educated about the standard practices and not so standard practices of animal agriculture. They gained the knowledge that one can live and thrive on plant based diets ...

My last post makes no mention of 'veganism' etc or even the much maligned vegetarians. So why would you bring that up? (And yes I am aware of the thread title btw). I know I will be attacked for even responding to that. Why would I do so seriously? My interest is food and its production and to counter some of the bs being posted about that. Much of that which is bring pushed is misinformation and also sadly propaganda. I will respond to that.

Standards of agricultural production in Ireland are very high and strictly regulated. People can thrive on a wide range of foodstuffs and different diets and be healthy including eating meat and dairy as part of a healthy balanced diet. Animals are in the absolute majority of cases well cared for and protected against illness and predation. 'Secretions' I find is a hilarious but seriously bizarre phrase for normal every day / milk, eggs etc. Mammals produce 'milk' in my reality. I've checked with others and they report it's the same in theirs.

As to this

Becoming vegan not only lessens the suffering which animals endure but also proactively combats human rights issues.

Here are some examples of how that is just words and little else tbh.

There is no world shortage of food. There is food inequality due to corruption, conflict and poverty.
https://www.worldhunger.org/letter-food-shortage-world-questions/

Many people in developing countries are dependent on livestock for food and agriculture. For example: Ethiopia has approx 53 million cattle and this type of agriculture forms an important part of the economy.
https://www.cam.ac.uk/research/features/of-cabbages-and-cows-increasing-agricultural-yields-in-africa

India has more bovines than any other country on earth including some 75 million dairy farms - providing a nutritious food source of food for many of it's own people. https://qz.com/235085/india-75-million-dairy-farms-now-make-more-milk-than-all-of-the-european-union/

86 % of all food fed to animals comes from by-products of the human food industry. Not 'grain'!
http://www.fao.org/ag/againfo/home/en/news_archive/2017_More_Fuel_for_the_Food_Feed.html

The majority of people who work in food processing - including the killing of animals are well adjusted and live normal lives. The slaughter of animals for food is highly regulated and inspected. This is well documented.
https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2014/aug/29/slaughterhouse-crossing-line-between-life-meat

The production of food in parts of the world with few if any environmental standards of ethics is a huge issue. Whether that is vegan or any other products. This is well documented
https://boingboing.net/2018/09/03/veganism-might-make-you-feel-b.html

Eat healthily, eat locally and if you do not trust others for whatever reason grow and / or source your own food. This is easier than most people believe.

Please dont hate me for replying. I dont care what anyone eats tbh. I do not try to persuade anyone to change their diet. However I strongly dislike misinformation of any kind. Thanks

andekwarhola

My wife is vegetarian and before the kids came along, I'd kinda faded away from eating meat except for when we ate out which was about once a week. I do like a decent meat meal though and I wasn't and am not willing to give it completely.

Now that the kids are here, we (excluding wife) eat meat maybe about twice a week, fish 1-2 times a week and veggie stuff the rest. Obviously we'd do treats with the kids like burger places and whatever. One thing we've definitely done recently is eiliminated processed meats from our household diet.

No problem with Vegans though. It's admirably healthy if they're doing it right but it's just not for me.

auspicious

*Gozunda- My last post makes no mention of veganism etc or even the much maligned vegetarians. So why would you bring that up?*

That was just my reply to the OP.

I don't hate you for replying. Not at all. I dont hate anyone. Well except those who deserve it; the same people that you and anybody sane hate.

auspicious

Jazmin Some Designer wrote: »

I will stop wearing leather shoes, belts etc and use ones made from petroleum products.

Look, it's senseless to think we can live in a perfect world. We just got to make the right choices and limit our impact with intent.

prinzeugen

auspicious wrote: »

The grain used to feed American livestock alone could eradicate world hunger and feed 800 million hungry men, women and children.

Sorry but that is absolute bollox. Which "grain" are you talking about? Wheat? Barley? Corn? All of them?

Most animal feed comes from the leftovers after the grain has been used for something else. IIRC most of the corn grown in the US is turned into ethanol and the waste used as feed. It has little nutritional value to humans. Just look at places in Ohio were its the main crop and there ethanol plants everywhere.

The US does not produce enough grain for its needs. Thats why it needs to export some (wheat) and import others (barley) from Canada for example.

prinzeugen wrote: »

Sorry but that is absolute bollox. Which "grain" are you talking about? Wheat? Barley? Corn? All of them?

Most animal feed comes from the leftovers after the grain has been used for something else. IIRC most of the corn grown in the US is turned into ethanol and the waste used as feed. It has little nutritional value to humans. Just look at places in Ohio were its the main crop and there ethanol plants everywhere.

The US does not produce enough grain for its needs. Thats why it needs to export some (wheat) and import others (barley) from Canada for example.

Edit: Those figures as given by the PP are taken from an American website which lists the author as "Dr. Oppenlander"recognized as top 100 most influential vegans"(sic). Not only do the figures not match with any of the official FAO or other data - there is no sources for any of the claims made and the article contains no references whatsover. So as you say rubbish

The one crop that the US is sufficient in is Soya and it is currently the largest grower of soya beans globally. This crop is primarily processed for soya oil - the worlds most commonly used oil and a valuable commodity on the international market. After the last drop of oil is squeezed from the soya beans - the left overs - ie the husks and what is known as 'soy meal' is processed for further use. As by-products these are used in a variety of ways including animal feed especially for lot fed animals. In Europe and elsewhere these residues are mainly used as a supplementary feedstuff if needed - when livestock is housed during the winter months.

Sawduck

Let vegan's be vegan and meat eaters be meat eaters, don't know why its got to be an issue,just eat what you want

prinzeugen

gozunda wrote: »

The one crop that the US is sufficient in is Soya and it is currently the largest grower of soya beans globally. This crop is primarily processed for soya oil - the worlds most commonly used oil and a valuable commodity on the international market. After the last drop of oil is squeezed from the soya beans - the left overs - ie the husks and what is known as 'soy meal' is processed for further use. As by-products these are used in a variety of ways including animal feed especially for lot fed animals. In Europe and elsewhere these residues are mainly used as a supplementary feedstuff if needed - when livestock is housed during the winter months.

And I believe its being sold to China for ¢¢ while everything coming in is $$! Great trade deal Trump!

I think I have said this before. If there was a global incident and all trade stopped, vegans are going to eat meat or starve.

From what I have seen, 80% of a vegans diet is imported. How is that good for the environment? Get rid of livestock but chuck 1000s more planes in the air to feed us.

As they would say in the US "The math does not add up".

Snickers Man wrote: »

More meat for the rest of us

How?

Busterie

I am a meat eater but can understand that people ant to reduce meat and dairy for environmental as well as cruelty to animal reasons, it is inevitable that the sales of beef and dairy will collapse in the future.What annoys me is the hysterical reaction of farmers organisations who think the tax payer should bail them out again for producing food people do not want

Still waters wrote: »

It's amusing to read the farmers on the farming forum complaining about the rise in vegetarians, youd think they were dependent on every human alive eating 3 steaks a day when in reality blaming the few vegetarians for their problems is like blaming a turf fire in connemara on global warming

In truth we would probably all be a lot healthier if we cut down the amount of meat and ate more veg and fruit

Farming a small farm here so I'm all for more money for meat but I don't see a healthy future in the mass production of animals for the slaughter houses

That's Dan and his side kick that follow every vegan thread.

uck51js9zml2yt

Busterie wrote: »

I am a meat eater but can understand that people ant to reduce meat and dairy for environmental as well as cruelty to animal reasons, it is inevitable that the sales of beef and dairy will collapse in the future.What annoys me is the hysterical reaction of farmers organisations who think the tax payer should bail them out again for producing food people do not want

What food don't people want?

YFlyer wrote: »

That's Dan and his side kick that follow every vegan thread.

Still waters wrote:

....Farming a small farm here

Why the fuk attack Still Waters and others just because he's a farmer? Afaik he can post where he likes. What contribution have you made to thr discussion? Farmers grow food for everyone including veggies. Or just picking posters for ****e and giggles? Is it because their different from you or might have an opinion or reply to posts in AH which talk about food & agriculture? Why is that?

silverharp

veganism is a dietary experiment that has never been tried before, there has never been a vegan society and eating meat was part of our evolutionary development. Experiment with your life if you want to but there is no reason to think its an optimal diet for humans.

gozunda wrote: »

Why the fuk attack Still Waters just because he's a farmer? Afaik he can post where he likes. What contribution have you made to thr discussion? Farmers grow food for everyone including veggies. Or just picking posters for ****e and giggles? Is it because their different from you or might have an opinion or reply to posts in AH which talk about food & agriculture? Why is that?

Where did I attack him?

wakka12

silverharp wrote: »

veganism is a dietary experiment that has never been tried before, there has never been a vegan society and eating meat was part of our evolutionary development. Experiment with your life if you want to but there is no reason to think its an optimal diet for humans.

There is no optimal diet, everyone reacts differently to foods. but veganism is by no means an unhealthy diet to try

whisky_galore

A Western fad, out in Asia they chow down anything and everything with a pulse.

is_that_so

Sawduck wrote: »

Let vegan's be vegan and meat eaters be meat eaters, don't know why its got to be an issue,just eat what you want

It's the animals - people can get highly charged around the subject of animal husbandry.

YFlyer wrote: »

Where did I attack him?

YFlyerThat's Dan and his side kick that follow every vegan thread.

What you call that then? Dan is a farmer, Still waters is a farmer. What's the problem? Are posters not allowed to comment on threads in AH etc that have comments about farming, food et?. Are others not allowed to comment as well? Or does freedom of expression only work for select groups? Why is that?