kerplun k wrote: » Loved the film, I won’t do the normal review thingy as I generally agree with most of the stuff already said on here, but one thing I kind of want to talk about is my growing itch I have with the MCU formula. It probably sounds like I'm sh1tting all over this, but honestly I'm not, I love these films, but like some others have said, I'm not sure I even want to continue the journey after this. I find when I’m watching the latest marvel movies I keep thinking about a Tim Burton movie I saw called Big Eyes, if you haven’t seen it, it’s essentially a movie about an artist that paints her different subjects in a similar style, the artist is Margaret Keane, Google her images and you'll see what I mean, the paintings are all variations of things using the same style, anyhews, about halfway through the movie her paintings reaches the height of their fame and Keane is tasked with painting a piece called Tomorrow Forever, and again she uses the same style and technique to produce her biggest and best work, which is basically the same thing she normally does but more of it, squeezed into this one huge painting displaying all her work. And that’s how I about the VFX in Infinity War and Endgame, its Marvels version of Tomorrow Forever. These are the most "MCU" films yet, what I mean by that is that they use the same generic VFX, but more of it, and like Margaret Keane, the art is perfectly fine, but its the same dam thing, just more of it. The MCU seem to be relying more and more on VFX, Maybe because its cheaper and less time-consuming, it’s probably more convenient to use VFX to make changes in post-production than to do reshoots, I dunno. Let’s look at some of the VFX counts from some of the moves, Information was sourced from upcomingvfxmovies.com phase 1, Film, VFX The Avengers, 2200 Thor, 1309 Iron Man 2, 1000 Iron Man, 800 Now let’s look at the VFX counts from some of the films post phase 1 phase 2 and 3 Film, VFX Avengers: Infinity War, 2680 Black Panther, 2456 GOTG V2, 2300 Civil War, 3000 Doctor Strange, 1450 Avengers: Age of Ultron, 3000 Guardians of the Galaxy, 2750 Winter Soldier, 2500 Iron Man 3, 2000 I think it’s fair to say from this that VFX within the MCU has seen a large spike. Why do I have a problem with this... It’s simple, The MCU hands off the VFX in their movies to a special effects team which gives a director less input on the finished product. As the movies become more dependent on special effects, the room for creativity is diminished at least in terms of the visuals. As the VFX become more prevalent, it now seems like the VFX artists are directing these movies, leaving the actual director with less of a chance to put their own stamp it. When these films do shine, it’s through the dialogue and character moments, this is where the directors can actually put their own spin on things. This can be highlighted with two films from Directed by Ryan Coogler. Creed and Black Panther. Let’s first look at the big fight scene from Black Panther, look at the CGI, look at the character movements, and look at the ever increasing ignorance for the basic laws of physics After watching this, many accused Coogler of being inexperienced in doing actions scenes, but my argument against this was his work on Creed. Let’s look at one of my favourite shots from this film Now, tell me this man doesn’t know how to direct an action scene. so again, what’s the problem with BP? why is the action scenes so bland and generic, especially when you compare it to some of his work on Creed, If you ask me, I think the answer is that Coogler hasn’t got much say on the action in BP. When discussing the visuals of MCU films these same type of accusations are leveled at the Russo brothers and again I would argue that this is not their fault, Its the ever increasing influence of Feiges insistence that the visuals are outsourced to the SFX team. Take a look at this article from screenrant.[/URL] Marvel even has a crash course for new indie directors that come in to direct their movies. Normally when we go see these type of action moves, we tolerate things like a lose plot or one dimensional characters because we get rewarded with the big action pieces, but with the MCU, things have been turned on its head a little, the big action scenes come secondary to the characters, we almost tolerate the SFX because we love the characters and relationships between those characters. The highlights are the dialogues and moments between these characters. When people talk about their favorite parts of IW, it’s the Stark/Parker relationship, or Thor/GOTG bits, the jokes, etc., not one person came to be and said "I loved the bit when Thanos threw that moon at Stark". The MCU has got away the dodgy VFX for so long now because we've had 9 years of character development, the ground work was done in phase 1 without a ton of green screen, heck even, and the main event of phase 1, The Avengers had less VFX than most of the films in phase 2 and 3. I think this poses is a huge problem for the MCU, because if this is the end, and they plan to start a new chapter, they won't have the luxury of build up from previous moves that laid the ground work.Look at a side by side from the original Iron Man and endgame. Look at the original Iron Man trailer Look at the movements, the suit, look how real it looks, and then compare this to some of the scenes in Captain Marvel, BP IW and Endgame and tell me this isn't a problem. Now, in saying all of that, I get that IW and Endgame are Marvels Tomorrow Forever, it needs to be big, the people demand it, its the season final after all, however, If this really is the end like Marvel are claiming, they should go all in, and do the same with the VFX process. I say start again, start small, hire creatives like they did in phase 1 and let them actually direct their own actions sequences, give them full creative control, and let them establish their own unique style, because if the MCU really is serious about starting over, and you take a movie like Shang-Chi, and you try pull this generic gravity defying, rubbery movement, laser bean shooting up into the sky crap, no one will care. I think going forward, if the MCU want to remain relevant, they really do need to start over and take a chance and trust the creative process rather than special effects.
GavRedKing wrote: » I didnt like Black Panther or Captain Marvel, I think they were average enough origin stories that were pandering and some people were afraid to criticise at the time, in saying that, both were better than Ant Man & the Wasp and Dr. Strange, IMO.
titan18 wrote: » I was a bit disappointed by it tbh. It's not a bad film, but it's weaker than IW, and a good bit more than some or the stronger individual films. I don't think they show the devastation well, and cos of the decision with time travel and leaving the 5 years, there's plot holes all over the place. Few eye rolling moments too (that stupid girl power shot and Thor's beer belly) that really don't work imo.
Gardiner 2001 wrote: » Very good film. Just wondering nw was it all talk of a new black widow film just to throw us off the scent what happens in this film or will that be somehow still getting made?
Gardiner 2001 wrote: Very good film. Just wondering nw was it all talk of a new black widow film just to throw us off the scent what happens in this film or will that be somehow still getting made?
Foxtrol wrote: » I always expected/hoped it to be a prequel/origin story. They've regularly teased her early years, right up to why she owed Barton, and I think it is the most interesting direction to go with it. Post Thanos, I don't see how she'd end up off by herself in an interesting story.
titan18 wrote: » That's got to be a prequel. Probably how she meets Hawkeye or joins SHIELD would be likeliest imo
Gardiner 2001 wrote: Makes sense. Another way to have Hawkeye in it as well as he wouldn't be one of the stronger characters in my opinion
khaldrogo wrote: I'd have more interest in a Ronin movie than a Hawkeye movie. He was calling his daughter Hawkeye in one scene. Could be setting up something there?
titan18 wrote: » Yup. Can bring Hawkeye and Fury in it. Set it late 90s, early 2000s or something
Triceratops Ballet wrote: » I'm all for the empowerment of women, but marvel would have served its self and female empowerment better if they'd gotten the finger out years ago and had a female driven movie, or not fridged their female avenger for feckin Hawkeye!! They managed a balanced empowering movie in Black Panther that didn't look like pandering to women, so they're capable of it, they just don't seem to care and thought a token gesture was enough!
khaldrogo wrote: » Don't think I've ever left a cinema thinking I need to watch the film again, soon. Just from a stand point that there was so much in it. Did not feel like 3hrs at all.
Foxtrol wrote: » Think it says a lot that the most consistent complaint raised here appears to be a 10 second shot of female characters, albeit one that could have been done more subtly.
Deleted User wrote: » It's not the 10 seconds though. I was fully engaged with the onscreen action, it completely broke me out at a fairly climatic section.
Foxtrol wrote: » The infamous circular shot from the first Avengers movie was also during a climatic section of the movie. They also managed to ram in one into AoU, in the church during the final battle. This is arguably the most forced, but it isn't by much. I'm pretty confident that if it was any other group of characters, other than female heros, then it wouldn't get more than a passing comment. Some people are just hypersensitive about these sort of nods.
Deleted User wrote: » I was going to point to the Ultron one too. It was shot in a (contrived yes) way to bring them together and had the small-ish principal cast but there was a reason that they were all there defending that one point. Endgame one was that but pushed way past 11, they were a group of people with no real reason to know/find/come together on the battle field and NOT for the group shot of Avengers 1&2 but for a committee driven reason. Most of those characters were absolutely owning it, in their battle scenes. They did not need a pandering shot.
AMKC wrote: » So seen it today. I thought it took to long to get going nearly an hour with very little happening and then the rest was ok but nothing great. It was better than Infinity War which was hardly going to be hard is it was only a below average film anyway but Id say this is an average film. A lot of it was predictable and while there was some humour there was not much. I thought there was a lot of bits that did not link well like Nebula ended up back with them in the future even do she did not come back with your man but we did not see her coming back either. What I mean is we see her on the ad but not coming back with him so she should have not been there and then there was Cap A able to use Thors Hammer like Why and How? Also I was disappointed that Captain Marvel did not get that much to do it was obvious who was going to die. Sure I knew that from last year. So ye just 5 out of 10 from me. Oh ye and by the way its only 2hours 40mins long not 3hours long.
AMKC wrote: » Oh ye and by the way its only 2hours 40mins long not 3hours long.
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