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Child Item

Claire Byrne show. Her name was Clodagh

autumnbelle

Just watching the programme her sister and mother are so dignified. How have the school not given them answers? Tragic

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Muahahaha

And just on the priest Father Felim Kelly- further back the thread people were asking if he was on the schools Board of Management, the answer is yes- below are Jacqueline Connollys own words in the article she wrote for the Indo yesterday

This was confirmation that a significant section of the public was upset that the initial news coverage fo the murders seemed to ignore Clodagh and the children, opting to highlight that the perpetrator of the crime was a great community man, GAA activist and respected Vice Principal of the local school.

The person the media turned to most in those first few hours after the news broke was the local curate, Fr.Felim Kelly, who, no doubt in shock, must have felt the correct thing to do was tell the nation that "Master Hawe" of Castlerahan National School, where Fr.Kelly was on the board of management, was well regarded. Some media outlets 'eulogised' the murderer to the point of almost ignoring the murdered. And thus the hashtag, Her Name is Clodagh, went viral

She has put Master Hawe in inverted commas which suggests that this is how the priest referred to his friend Alan Hawe

gozunda

Dial Hard wrote: »

He didn't have a will, he died intestate according to the article in yesterday's Independent.

The law as it stands would mean all 'his' assets (if he died intestate) would then go to his parents etc.

Dial Hard

gozunda wrote: »

The law as it stands would mean all 'his' assets (if he died intestaye) would then go to his parents etc.

I know. Which has begged the question of who directed the solicitor's letter be sent to her family two weeks after the funerals. Someone suggested his solicitor may have taken it upon himself to do so based on the contents of Alan's will, I was simply pointing out that he didn't have a will, ergo that can't be what happened.

Bobtheman

I read the sisters account in the Sunday Indo yesterday. A number of things stood out
The Public had no right to comment on where Alan hawe was buried. That was and is the family's business. Given the shock they were under one could understand the initial decision. Instead they were attacked on social media for initially burying him with his family. Deplorable

Secondly she makes statements about Alan Hawe based on notes from his counselling sessions. I wonder how these came to light ?
She also speculates about difficulties Alan was having in school. At this stage I do think they are entitled to know the full truth but I understand how a school might hesitate to reveal the full info as they might feel responsible for what occurred or perhaps there really isnt much to it? Who knows? But they deserve some answers.
Lastly, there is no doubt that a man who slaughters hi family is not right in the head but that doesnt mean you cant say it was wrong or that it wasnt evil.

tretorn

The solicitors had to be instructed by someone and if it wasnt the Coll family then it had to be the Hawes.

Solicitors cant just write out randomly, they need to be engaged by relatives of the deceased.

freshpopcorn

Bobtheman wrote: »

I read the sisters account in the Sunday Indo yesterday. A number of things stood out
The Public had no right to comment on where Alan hawe was buried. That was and is the family's business. Given the shock they were under one could understand the initial decision. Instead they were attacked on social media for initially burying him with his family. Deplorable

Secondly she makes statements about Alan Hawe based on notes from his counselling sessions. I wonder how these came to light ?
She also speculates about difficulties Alan was having in school. At this stage I do think they are entitled to know the full truth but I understand how a school might hesitate to reveal the full info as they might feel responsible for what occurred or perhaps there really isnt much to it? Who knows? But they deserve some answers.
Lastly, there is no doubt that a man who slaughters hi family is not right in the head but that doesnt mean you cant say it was wrong or that it wasnt evil.

I agree with you regarding the burying him that it should be up to families/etc.
From my understand the counsellor mad a few statement at the inquest. Something along the lines of he was due a fall from grace/something happened at work.
The school info has me at little lost as I've said previously.
I think the principal would be well aware of child protection laws and she'd have plenty of people to turn to for advice. However they are certain things the school may find it hard to disclose.(Doimg things off the record never turn out well really).
At the time the school would have full of counsellors who'd have had a good bit of dealing with the school. I'd there was anything fishy going on they'd have a good chance of spot it.

Bobtheman

It's tragic that the man thought the loss of a job merited that action. Your life or anybody else's is not worth that.
Unfortunately in our material world it gets too much importance.
Makes you almost wish for a time when sucide rates were lower because people feared hell.

Idbatterim

This constant point about him being caught watching porn in school! I think being caught masturbating in his work place is just a tad worse! And you can use your own phone as a hot spot for wifi and stream it to a laptop etc...

tretorn

I keep reading this watching porn too. The allegations are that he was masturbating while watching porn, this is on a whole different level to someone watching porn, not that anyone should be watching porn while being paid to do a job.

FrancieBrady

Bobtheman wrote: »

At this stage I do think they are entitled to know the full truth but I understand how a school might hesitate to reveal the full info as they might feel responsible for what occurred or perhaps there really isnt much to it? Who knows? But they deserve some answers.

For all we know there may be another member of staff involved in this 'process', whatever it was and therefore there are other rights to be protected.

We don't know so it is pointless to speculate.

Idbatterim

tretorn wrote: »

I keep reading this watching porn too. The allegations are that he was masturbating while watching porn, this is on a whole different level to someone watching porn, not that anyone should be watching porn while being paid to do a job.

watching porn in his work place isnt obviously a good idea. But if a mate told me they watched porn today, my reaction would be the same as them going out telling me they had bought a pint of milk!

goat2

From what I read into all of this,
Alan Hawe wanted to appear perfect , have the perfect , family, home, car, he had all of this.
But when he fell from grace and did not want his family knowing, he did not know how to handle it,
He forgot the saying, no body is perfect, we all have our faults,

tretorn

FrancieBrady wrote: »

For all we know there may be another member of staff involved in this 'process', whatever it was and therefore there are other rights to be protected.

We don't know so it is pointless to speculate.

Then the schools Board of Management should put out a statement to that effect.

The Colls have said no one from the school has spoken to them at all and they are the ones living in hell so their rights are more important than anyone elses.

The Colls want to know what happened in the last months of Hawes life and everyone who has information to give should give it and if something that should have been done wasnt done then let this be known too. It isnt going to help the Colls now but knowing what happened here might help some potential victims in the future.

What rights are more important than that of a tiny little six year old to be in safety in his own bed.

People have every right to speculate and if speculation nudges people with information to come forward with knowledge then speculation is good.

Its incredible that no statement has yet been issued from the school and the more this goes on the more speculation will increase.

gozunda

tretorn wrote: »

I keep reading this watching porn too. The allegations are that he was masturbating while watching porn, this is on a whole different level to someone watching porn, not that anyone should be watching porn while being paid to do a job.

I suppose it could also relate to the type of material being watched. Child abuse, BDSM, Snuff ... if it was accessed through the school laptop and the guards have forensicly examined same - then this may have been a bigger issue (eg as in the case of Graham Dywer) than 'watching' top shelf type stuff tbh ...

freshpopcorn

tretorn wrote: »

Then the schools Board of Management should put out a statement to that effect.

The Colls have said no one from the school has spoken to them at all and they are the ones living in hell so their rights are more important than anyone elses.

The Colls want to know what happened in the last months of Hawes life and everyone who has information to give should give it and if something that should have been done wasnt done then let this be known too. It isnt going to help the Colls now but knowing what happened here might help some potential victims in the future.

What rights are more important than that of a tiny little six year old to be in safety in his own bed.

People have every right to speculate and if speculation nudges people with information to come forward with knowledge then speculation is good.

Its incredible that no statement has yet been issued from the school and the more this goes on the more speculation will increase.

From my understanding in these incidents. Schools have a set of guidelines from the department. They are called the critical incident plan or something.
They can consult the counsellors who'd be in school at the time but they can't really go off talking or saying things. They issued a short statement at the time and that's nearly all they are required to do.
Regarding children in the school who may be effected. At the time of this happening they'd have being counsellors in the school to deal with children/parents/staff who may have being effected in anyway due to this incident.
However legally there's only so much that can be disclosed to the public especially when it involves a school/kids.

tretorn

I think it probably relates to the masturbating more than what he was watching.

Thats if this is actually true.

The Colls dont actually know what he was doing but its probably in the Garda files. On second thoughts maybe it isnt because presumably the Gardai would have had to hand over all relevant information at the time of the inquest. What was the point of this inquest anyway if all relevant matters werent disclosed.

Hopefully after the family meet the Minister for Justice they may succeed in having the Garda files handed over and also hopefully no other family will have to wait sixteen months to read the contents of a suicide note that was meant for them. Hawe wrote that note for the Colls and it was his dying words on this earth, he intended them to read it on the day their loves ones were found butchered.

The Colls are amazing women, I had no idea they were being treated like this.

FrancieBrady

tretorn wrote: »

Then the schools Board of Management should put out a statement to that effect.

The Colls have said no one from the school has spoken to them at all and they are the ones living in hell so their rights are more important than anyone elses.

The Colls want to know what happened in the last months of Hawes life and everyone who has information to give should give it and if something that should have been done wasnt done then let this be known too. It isnt going to help the Colls now but knowing what happened here might help some potential victims in the future.

What rights are more important than that of a tiny little six year old to be in safety in his own bed.

People have every right to speculate and if speculation nudges people with information to come forward with knowledge then speculation is good.

Its incredible that no statement has yet been issued from the school and the more this goes on the more speculation will increase.

Morally, you may have a point, but in law, everyone's right is equal. If there is somebody else involved the school would be prohibited from infringing their right to anonymity and would have a duty re: fair treatment.

Nobody knows why the school is not forthcoming, it is all just speculation.

tretorn

freshpopcorn wrote: »

From my understanding in these incidents. Schools have a set of guidelines from the department. They are called the critical incident plan or something.
They can consult the counsellors who'd be in school at the time but they can't really go off talking or saying things. They issued a short statement at the time and that's nearly all they are required to do.
Regarding children in the school who may be effected. At the time of this happening they'd have being counsellors in the school to deal with children/parents/staff who may have being effected in anyway due to this incident.
However legally there's only so much that can be disclosed to the public especially when it involves a school/kids.

But surely if four people were murdered in their family home as a result of something that happened in school then this was relevant to the inquest. The question is were the Gardai informed after the bodies were discovered that there was a problem at school. If they were the information is in the Garda files.

If something should have been mandatorily reported under child welfare rules then I am not sure that right to privacy should prevent evidence being disclosed. Its important to know if and when Hawe was caught masturbating and what action was taken. You dont have to name anyone, you could say staff member witnessed Hawe , reported it where and then what action was taken.

freshpopcorn

tretorn wrote: »

I think it probably relates to the masturbating more than what he was watching.

Thats if this is actually true.

The Colls dont actually know what he was doing but its probably in the Garda files. On second thoughts maybe it isnt because presumably the Gardai would have had to hand over all relevant information at the time of the inquest. What was the point of this inquest anyway if all relevant matters werent disclosed.

Hopefully after the family meet the Minister for Justice they may succeed in having the Garda files handed over and also hopefully no other family will have to wait sixteen months to read the contents of a suicide note that was meant for them. Hawe wrote that note for the Colls and it was his dying words on this earth, he intended them to read it on the day their loves ones were found butchered.

The Colls are amazing women, I had no idea they were being treated like this.

Suicide notes especially in case like this have to treated like evidence. It's just one of these things I can't see changing.

tretorn

freshpopcorn wrote: »

Suicide notes especially in case like this have to treated like evidence. It's just one of these things I can't see changing.

The family werent told the contents of the note for sixteen months.

This is terribly wrong.

eviltwin

freshpopcorn wrote: »

Suicide notes especially in case like this have to treated like evidence. It's just one of these things I can't see changing.

Surely it's evidential value shouldn't prevent the family getting a transcript of its content?

freshpopcorn

tretorn wrote: »

The family werent told the contents of the note for sixteen months.

This is terribly wrong.

eviltwin wrote: »

Surely it's evidential value shouldn't prevent the family getting a transcript of its content?

I'm not really defending anybody or saying it's right but I was under the impression that in certain cases. Certain things aren't disclosed until the case ends up in court but I could be wrong.

Zorya

tretorn wrote: »

But surely if four people were murdered in their family home as a result of something that happened in school then this was relevant to the inquest..

To a certain extent I can understand some of your points and frustration. But this point of yours is wrong. Nobody was murdered as a result of what happened in school. That is not what normal people do. They either face the music, run away or perhaps in an extreme case might commit suicide. But this person took an axe to the heads of his wife and children - one after another in a systematic way with planning etc. This is not the result of anything anyone else did in any way, it is ALL the murderer's evil doing.

freshpopcorn

tretorn wrote: »

But surely if four people were murdered in their family home as a result of something that happened in school then this was relevant to the inquest. The question is were the Gardai informed after the bodies were discovered that there was a problem at school. If they were the information is in the Garda files.

It would really depend on what happened in the school and how it was reported and how the school dealt with the incident.
Since it appeared he was returning to work in September. I'd question what it was and how the matter was dealt with.

tretorn

It is all Hawes doing but something happened that pushed him over the edge. There is no point in hiding what happened as by doing this all facts relating to this tragedy arent being disclosed and each and everyone of these tragedies should be investigated properly so a full picture emerges as to whats causing the rise in family annilation.

Asking for full information is not pointing the finger at anyone or looking to blame anyone. Hawe was fully responsible for what he did but why he did it is the question and it wasnt because he was psychotic, it was because of something he didnt want Clodagh to find out.

Mrsmum

tretorn wrote: »

It is all Hawes doing but something happened that pushed him over the edge. There is no point in hiding what happened as by doing this all facts relating to this tragedy arent being disclosed and each and everyone of these tragedies should be investigated properly so a full picture emerges as to whats causing the rise in family annilation.

Asking for full information is not pointing the finger at anyone or looking to blame anyone. Hawe was fully responsible for what he did but why he did it is the question and it wasnt because he was psychotic, it was because of something he didnt want Clodagh to find out.

Clodagh's mother and sister deserve the information just because it's common decency to give them the full picture and because it's cruel to leave them in the dark but I don't see how even if you knew ever last detail it would prevent a future time. So someone who works with kids is caught in a compromising position and what, you immediately remove his wife and kids in case he goes home and murders them! When in a serious and shameful situation one man will go home and bawl his eyes out, another will book himself into rehab, another will head for the river, another will brazen it out and many other reactions. Thank God it's rare in the extreme that a person would do what he did.

[Deleted User]

brooke 2 wrote: »

I'd say that is what happened. Clodagh's mother said that AH had sorted everything out before he killed himself. He had transferred the money from the joint account into his account, he had taken Clodagh's jewellery from her drawer and left it on the bed for her mother, he had left a note with the instruction that their car was to be left to his brother and he had left a folder with 'legal papers' on the table, which papers no doubt were eventually given to the solicitors.

Apparently, he transferred the sum of €2,500 only from their joint account to his own account. That was the sum Clodagh's sister mentioned.

gozunda

Balagan1 wrote: »

Apparently, he transferred the sum of €2,500 only from their joint account to his own account. That was the sum Clodagh's sister mentioned.

The transfer of money following the murders marks his behaviour at this time as extremly premeditated tbh.

His use of overkill in using several different weapons and his claim that he found murdering his family somehow enjoyable marks him out as a very dangerous and deviant individual. I dont however believe he was suffering from any form of psychosis tbh. Just my opinion.

tretorn

Mrsmum wrote: »

Clodagh's mother and sister deserve the information just because it's common decency to give them the full picture and because it's cruel to leave them in the dark but I don't see how even if you knew ever last detail it would prevent a future time. So someone who works with kids is caught in a compromising position and what, you immediately remove his wife and kids in case he goes home and murders them! When in a serious and shameful situation one man will go home and bawl his eyes out, another will book himself into rehab, another will head for the river, another will brazen it out and many other reactions. Thank God it's rare in the extreme that a person would do what he did.

Yes, in future if a married man working with children is caught masturbating then you inform Tusla and Tusla as a matter of urgency hold a family meeting with husband and wife present and wife is given all the facts.

The Succession Act needs to be amended as a matter of urgency. It was never the intention of the people who drafted this legislation that family murderers should have a say in where joint assets go where there are no survivors.

FrancieBrady

tretorn wrote: »

Yes, in future if a married man working with children is caught masturbating then you inform Tusla and Tusla as a matter of urgency hold a family meeting with husband and wife present and wife is given all the facts.

Had that been the protocol in this case, he would just have taken the action he did, earlier. His goal was not to let the wife and family find out that whatever had happened, happened.