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Cork developments

snotboogie

I noticed that the Limerick equivalent is a very popular thread over on their forum so I thought I might get one going here. To kick things off I'll list the bigger current projects I can think of:

Under Construction

Navigation Square: Four building office development on the former Navigation House site on Albert Quay. 310,000 sq ft of office space for up to 3000 employees. First phase to be completed Feb 19'

89-90 South Mall: 50,000 sq ft office, 5 storey office building.To be completed in December 18'

Dalata Hotel South Mall: Six storey hotel, 165 beds. To be completed in December 18'

Various Student Accommodation: Western Road and Beamish site are under construction, Crows Nest has planning and should start soon, Square Deal is facing appeals, Coca-Cola site on the Carrigrohane Road has had planning for over a year but nothing has happened? O’Riordans Joinery, Gillen House on Farranlea Road, Model Farm Road/Melbourne Road and Copely Street are all at various stages of planning and/or limbo.

Planning/Appealed

Horgan's Quay: Office Space for 5,000 employees, 200 apartments, 136 bed hotel and 3000 sq metres of restaurants and retail. Got planning permission in March but it was appealed by Port of Cork. Uncertain when the final decision will be. Construction on the Hotel will hopefully begin in Q4 this year with the office and apartments commencing in 2019.

Sullivan's Quay: 6 storey Office & 193 bed 4 star Hotel. Planning granted and immediately appealed. Given that demolition is nearly complete I'd expect this to go into construction as soon as planning is granted. Potential hold up over the height of the hotel, at 12 storeys and 47 metres, it is set to make the top 20 tallest buildings in the state if completed. An Taisce not happy.

Former Victoria Hotel: Knocking much of the Victoria and rebuilding to the back and refurbishing the original historic front/facade and to integrate the two sections into a new high order retail unit, of 25,000 sq ft, over four floors. Rumoured to be taken over by Zara. Planning granted in Feb, nothing happened on site since.

Metropole Redevelopment: €50m redevelopment of the Metropole Hotel to include a new five-storey boutique hotel on Patrick's Quay. Planning granted with amendments in March. No date for work to start.

Wilton Shopping Centre: €100 million revamp proposed. Mistake made in planning permission. In the process of resubmitting.

In Limbo

Event Centre: 6000 all seater multi purpose event centre with a tourist brewery experience. Arguably the most controversial construction project in the history of the city. After a bleak 6 months at the back end of 2017 there have been two instances of positive murmurs from the Government and BAM in January 2018 and April 2018. Construction allegedly to start in Q4 2018 but there are still conflicting and contradictory statements from all parties involved. Most would be shocked to see this start in 2018.

Anderson Quay/Camden Quay/Trinity Quarter: All have had planning for years with no work on site. Camden Quay allegedly had some work going on last week but I'd be shocked if it was related to the actual construction. I can't see any of these sites being developed as per their current proposals.

Concept/Pre Planning

Docklands Tower: 40 storey mixed use tower with the redevelopment of the existing customs house warehouses into cultural, tourist and retail space. By a mile the most ambitious development in Ireland. Announced over one year ago and no sign of a planning permission application yet, allegedly waiting for the Docklands development plan this summer to rezone heights for the site. If we don't see a planning application by the end of the year I'd be worried.

Ford Distribution Depot: Put on sale last week. Former site of the extremely ambitious Atlantic Quarter. Major development opportunity

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mire

whisky_galore wrote: »

Generally speaking they are awful looking yokes.
The only new development that I like is the Capitol, which at least makes an attempt to blend into the surrounding buildings.

I also like the Capitol development, but there are no rules in the world of planning and design which stipulate that new developments need to 'blend in'. New buildings should be allowed to set their own context.

ScrubsfanChris

Are these parking spaces facing the wrong direction?

mainMediaSize=MEDIUM_type=image_x0=0_y0=0_x1=100_y1=100__image.jpg

AugustusMinimus

whisky_galore wrote: »

Generally speaking they are awful looking yokes.
The only new development that I like is the Capitol, which at least makes an attempt to blend into the surrounding buildings.

What would exactly fit in in Horgans Quay for instance? A 2 story red brick terrace to work with the train station?

hans aus dtschl

whisky_galore wrote: »

Generally speaking they are awful looking yokes.
The only new development that I like is the Capitol, which at least makes an attempt to blend into the surrounding buildings.

Do you mean Berghain? I'm not sure that quite qualifies as "blending in" tbh.

whisky_galore

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

Which developments are glass boxes?

Navigation Square, Horgans Quay and Penrose Quay are all various mixes of concrete, cladding and glass.

And before you say it, yes buildings do need windows. The bigger they are the more natural light gets in.

Generally speaking they are awful looking yokes.
The only new development that I like is the Capitol, which at least makes an attempt to blend into the surrounding buildings.

hans aus dtschl

chalkitdown1 wrote: »

Looks great. And that bus lane is badly needed as Albert road on the opposite of Navigation Square is a nightmare at peak times.

TBH, they could easily make that outbound left lane a dedicated bus lane as well. Never saw the point of two giant outbound lanes here. They kinda funnel into one once you get to the roundabout anyway as it isn't fit for two lanes of cars going around it. I presume that roundabout is going, too? It's bloody awful.

I don't see the need for two lanes either, that second lane is almost a ready-made contra-flow bus lane right now with minimal effort and disruption.

They might want to explicitly remove the on-street parking outside Goldbergs etc now that the area is being developed, but the houses south of that won't like the on-street parking removed. This bus lane could make shuttle buses to events at the marquee/stadium very straightforward.

chalkitdown1

TheChizler wrote: »

That and you mostly tend to get with-flow bus lanes in places where there's regular traffic-jams, normally due to lights. The next set of lights outbound are at the end of the Blackrock Road and don't really hold up much in that direction, and the roundabout on Victoria Road would be fairly free flowing outbound in my experience, not that I'm there often during rush hour so I could be wrong.

I drive by there every day, the only times I've seen backlogs outbound in the lead up to the roundabout are when there's a game on at Parc Ui Caoimh or a gig at the Marquee etc. Normally I just fly straight through no problem.

Sometimes you do get assholes sitting on the roundabout (because of the queue on Albert Road) blocking your passage through to Blackrock Road, but that's it.

chalkitdown1

marno21 wrote: »

The Docklands access upgrade plans have been unveiled

https://www.echolive.ie/corknews/65m-plans-unveiled-for-Corks-gateway-to-the-Docklands-8f7f7791-d6ef-4ea3-a8ea-7be2058e802e-ds

Looks great. And that bus lane is badly needed as Albert road on the opposite of Navigation Square is a nightmare at peak times. Great that most buses won't have to take it anymore.

TBH, they could easily make that outbound left lane a dedicated bus lane as well. Never saw the point of two giant outbound lanes here (are they the widest lanes in Cork?). They kinda funnel into one once you get to the roundabout anyway as it isn't fit for two lanes of cars going around it. I presume that roundabout is going, too? It's bloody awful.

TheChizler

Tomtom364 wrote: »

Looks to be a counter flow bus lane. That road is currently one way outbound they might not see a need for a dedicated bus lane outbound when there is already two lanes outbound

That and you mostly tend to get with-flow bus lanes in places where there's regular traffic-jams, normally due to lights. The next set of lights outbound are at the end of the Blackrock Road and don't really hold up much in that direction, and the roundabout on Victoria Road would be fairly free flowing outbound in my experience, not that I'm there often during rush hour so I could be wrong.

Tomtom364

Curb Your Enthusiasm wrote: »

Only one way bus lanes?

Looks to be a counter flow bus lane. That road is currently one way outbound they might not see a need for a dedicated bus lane outbound when there is already two lanes outbound

Curb Your Enthusiasm

marno21 wrote: »

The Docklands access upgrade plans have been unveiled

https://www.echolive.ie/corknews/65m-plans-unveiled-for-Corks-gateway-to-the-Docklands-8f7f7791-d6ef-4ea3-a8ea-7be2058e802e-ds

Only one way bus lanes?

marno21

The Docklands access upgrade plans have been unveiled

https://www.echolive.ie/corknews/65m-plans-unveiled-for-Corks-gateway-to-the-Docklands-8f7f7791-d6ef-4ea3-a8ea-7be2058e802e-ds

Tomtom364

EnzoScifo wrote: »

That's the point though. The blocks will still be competing with the college road housing. To say that these companies will build and build until they replace the (comparatively) low cost rentals at the expense of their own profits just isn't realistic.

College road housing is never going to go back to being ordinary residential. and neither will the houses immediately next to CIT. Those arnt the problem as they are always going to be used by students. Its the students living in houses in places like Wilton/Ballincollig and commuting in that these places will hopefully drag in. freeing up housing being used by students in non student areas. that includes houses that are purpose let to students in those areas and also there is a large number of students renting regular non student rooms in houses all round that wouldn't be much cheaper then halls when you take bills & travel into account.

although they appear pricey, the convenience of it being one fee for everything and walking distance to campus are generally worth it. Particularly in the eyes of many parents who are footing the bill more often then not anyway.

TheChizler

EnzoScifo wrote: »

That's the point though. The blocks will still be competing with the college road housing. To say that these companies will build and build until they replace the (comparatively) low cost rentals at the expense of their own profits just isn't realistic.

Not sure anyone was saying that. There's a number in the pipeline now which will all but certain be completed and create some availability in the rest of the market.

Maybe we'll be saying the opposite again in a few years when UCC complete their business school...

EnzoScifo

TheChizler wrote: »

Well they're hardly going to fill blocks that don't exist! :pac:

That's the point though. The blocks will still be competing with the college road housing. To say that these companies will build and build until they replace the (comparatively) low cost rentals at the expense of their own profits just isn't realistic.

TheChizler

EnzoScifo wrote: »

we'll see on that front. The blocks are built for profit, not for need. If proposed rental income drops below a certain point, they won't build.

Well they're hardly going to fill blocks that don't exist! :pac:

EnzoScifo

TheChizler wrote: »

Probably, but if you think about it the other way they won't want to have those new blocks go empty, if they're not filling them they'll have to drop the price. Those blocks are going to be pretty much filled one way or the other.

we'll see on that front. The blocks are built for profit, not for need. If proposed rental income drops below a certain point, they won't build.

TheChizler

EnzoScifo wrote: »

To say that all students will migrate to the blocks without a serious drop in rental prices is naive at best.

Probably, but if you think about it the other way they won't want to have those new blocks go empty, if they're not filling them they'll have to drop the price. Those blocks are going to be pretty much filled one way or the other.

EnzoScifo

Tomtom364 wrote: »

Considering the vast majority of new student accommodation hasn't been built yet, and it's halfway through an academic year,That's not really gonna be a good way to judge it right now.

If someone has daft data from last august/September to compare to this year and the next few years, that might show it.

The other reservation is that a lot of those houses are dilapidated from years of student living. They are family homes that no family would choose to live in without serious investment due to the (obvious) large student population in the area.

Office workers especially the tech workers won't be attracted to such properties.

The other elephant in the room is that the new student builds are incredibly expensive compared to the college road housing. To say that all students will migrate to the blocks without a serious drop in rental prices is naive at best.

It's an easy thing to say that the houses left behind after the student accomodation boom will fill the gap, but unfortunately life is never easy.

Tomtom364

EnzoScifo wrote: »

If you've been looking at Daft, that just isn't happening (yet).

Considering the vast majority of new student accommodation hasn't been built yet, and it's halfway through an academic year,That's not really gonna be a good way to judge it right now.

If someone has daft data from last august/September to compare to this year and the next few years, that might show it.

EnzoScifo

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

The student accommodation is freeing up houses for non students. Our student population isn’t growing at near the same rate as student accommodation schemes.

If you've been looking at Daft, that just isn't happening (yet).

AugustusMinimus

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo wrote: »

I'd like if the developments could be a little more imaginative than 'glass box'. They are boring.

Which developments are glass boxes?

Navigation Square, Horgans Quay and Penrose Quay are all various mixes of concrete, cladding and glass.

And before you say it, yes buildings do need windows. The bigger they are the more natural light gets in.

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo

I'd like if the developments could be a little more imaginative than 'glass box'. They are boring.

EdgeCase

fash wrote: »

There is probably a technological solution which would resolve the issues - a small bridge which could extend out from the train. If there was, it would be a far cheaper solution also.

It would have been a good idea to have specified such a thing in the massive new fleet trains they purchased in the 00s.

AugustusMinimus

Brussels Sprout wrote: »

My only concern is that the vast amount of the new developments appear to be one of either:
Hotels

Office Space

Student Accommodation

There's already a housing crisis and all of these extra office workers are going to have to live somewhere. Redeveloping the city centre is a great opportunity to create some high density accommodation solutions.

Hopefully some more apartments are built which will be available for sale (and not just permanently rented out)

The student accommodation is freeing up houses for non students. Our student population isn’t growing at near the same rate as student accommodation schemes.

Brussels Sprout

Curb Your Enthusiasm wrote: »

I'm really looking forward to the future of Cork. All these developments are very exciting. Fingers crossed everything gets built according to plan, and of course the upcoming transport strategy will compliment the city nicely.

My only concern is that the vast amount of the new developments appear to be one of either:

Hotels
Office Space
Student Accommodation

There's already a housing crisis and all of these extra office workers are going to have to live somewhere. Redeveloping the city centre is a great opportunity to create some high density accommodation solutions.

Hopefully some more apartments are built which will be available for sale (and not just permanently rented out)

whisky_galore

Markcheese wrote: »

You would be amazed at how many elderly people end up falling between the train and platform (including someone I know on Christmas eve...), I assume it ends up expensive...
It can't be that hard to have a couple of little push out platforms with hand rails, at maybe the first couple of carriages....
If ónly to save the station building :-)

People fall and trip on lots of things. The fancy pants paving they installed a few years ago around the gpo and pana are lethal in the wet. Nearly landed on my h*le stepping on that stainless steel drainage cover some design house twit thought necessary.

Nigel Fairservice

fash wrote: »

There is probably a technological solution which would resolve the issues - a small bridge which could extend out from the train. If there was, it would be a far cheaper solution also.

I have seen these abroad. An extendable lip automatically folds out from the carriage door at stops.

sheff_

fash wrote: »

There is probably a technological solution which would resolve the issues - a small bridge which could extend out from the train. If there was, it would be a far cheaper solution also.

They could just start using platform 5 more for intercity trains - it means the gap is mid carriage rather than at the ends where the doors are.

Markcheese

whisky_galore wrote: »

Ok, demolish the place so two people won't be afraid to use the train.

You would be amazed at how many elderly people end up falling between the train and platform (including someone I know on Christmas eve...), I assume it ends up expensive...
It can't be that hard to have a couple of little push out platforms with hand rails, at maybe the first couple of carriages....
If ónly to save the station building :-)