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Child Item

Tips not given to staff in restaurants ?

LuasSimon

Spoke to niece who does some casual work in restaurant ( not in Dublin ) and was told the owner retains all tips and doesn’t give anything to staff??
Eg the niece was pleasant and chatting to an American guest about her vacation who gave her 4 euro .
The owner swooped after tourist left and pocketed the tip herself telling niece to hand it over and get back serving tables ??
The owner drives a big Jeep while most of the staff haven’t a bean , surely this isn’t right ??

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The Tetrarch

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

The owner is perfectly legally entitled to take the tips. His establishment his rules. He's already paying his staff enough with the ridiculous minimum wage laws in Ireland.

Most sensible owners will put a service charge on the bill to keep the gratuity on his books and away from the grubby hands of servers.

Then tell customers that the owner is taking tips from the servers for himself/herself.
Or put up a sign that says that, and watch his business skyrocket (possibly not true).

Church on Tuesday

dartboardio wrote: »

Are you even in Ireland? Ridiculous minimum wage?

Have you even seen the price of a bus fare, pint (average €6, 40 minutes work) or box of cigarettes lately? (€13 over a bloody hour of your working day).

Are you referring to me or the other poster?

anewme2050

You can tell by the atmosphere in a restaurant if the staff are happy.

If I think for one second the tips are not being shared I wont return

Staff morale is very important and management robbing worker tips is one easy way to ruin that....

dartboardio

Church on Tuesday wrote: »

Are you referring to me or the other poster?

Haha sorry that was for pintman.

Church on Tuesday

dartboardio wrote: »

Haha sorry that was for pintman.

No worries.

You're not exactly wrong in what you said.

Jane_Dough

I do not tip anymore.

Worked in a five star Dublin hotel as a commis chef and the tips were divided out between the waiting staff and both the head chef and sous chef. No other chefs received a cut despite working 10x harder.

I've witnessed far too many tip scandals in my time waitressing and cheffing.

con___manx1

Pintman Paddy Losty wrote: »

The owner is perfectly legally entitled to take the tips. His establishment his rules. He's already paying his staff enough with the ridiculous minimum wage laws in Ireland.

Most sensible owners will put a service charge on the bill to keep the gratuity on his books and away from the grubby hands of servers.

It sounds to me that you look down your nose at servers. When I tip I want the server to recieve the tip as they get paid feck all. Why would i want to tip someone who owns a restaraunt and possibly driving around in a new range rover ? Id rather see the server save a few pound to put them selves through college or make ends meet.

decky1

punisher5112 wrote: »

Why would anyone work for such a tool..,

sorry but the word 'Tool' does'nt even come near what this guy is, wish i had a daughter working for him we'd soon get him down to size.:mad: i always give the server a tip, everyone likes to get a little bit extra and if she keeps it ok , and if they have a jar to pool all tips better still, someone should stop this guy, greedy 'Clint'

Teddy Daniels

the_pen_turner wrote: »

first of all im against tipping unless the services was above what should be expected. almost imposible

should be expected and is expected are two different things, i tip 20% as long as they keep my wife happy.

second. any tips are given to the company through the staff member. its the staff member that would be steeling.
what the owner decides to do with company money is up to them. (it should be equally split imo)

I tip the server, if i found out the business had swiped it and redistributed it id report them for the vat and payrole implications.

mikemac2

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

If you don't like the way your boss is distributing the tips, leave and get a job someplace that suits you better.

Pooling tips is the only way to ensure that the team members who contribute to the customer experience, but don't actually get face-time with them, get a share. Very few places allow individuals to pocket tips and not share with their colleagues.

You didn’t even read what the OP posted

OldGoat

Rachiee wrote: »

If I tip I don't expect the kitchen staff to get a cut, I didn't tip because the food was nice, I paid very good money for the food and expected it to be nice, I tip for the service

So if the food you ordered comes along cold and under-cooked but the service is done with a smile you'd still tip?

seamus

Teddy Daniels wrote: »

I tip the server, if i found out the business had swiped it and redistributed it id report them for the vat and payrole implications.

There are no VAT or payroll implications.

Staff have no general entitlement to receive personal gifts. Some company policies require that all gifts are passed onto the company for redistribution. This can include flowers and chocolates.

In effect the employee is a representative of the company. Legally any gift to an employee during the course of their work, is considered a gift to the company

A tip is no different in law. If it is company policy that the company takes the tips, then that's how it works, scabby as it may be.

So there are no VAT or payroll implications, but there would be income tax implications. If the owner is pocketing it as spare cash and not declaring it, then he could be in trouble.

For tipping, I'll usually throw in 10% where the staff have been good. Nothing at all though if gratuity is added on.

andekwarhola

Although it's doubtful if you get a straight answer, I usually discreetly ask the waiter(ess) if the serving staff keep their own tips and if not, I try and tip directly.

If I know for certain that tips aren't going straight to serving staff, I wouldn't go back to the restaurant again.

If your business isn't economically viable without stealing the gratuity that I choose to pay to low paid staff from my own pocket, then your business is not viable. Full stop.

murpho999

branie2 wrote: »

Some servers rely on tips

Which ones? How do you know this?

In Ireland they get minimum wage? Why would they be dependent on non-obligatory tips.

This is not the USA and I hate how this tipping culture is creeping in.

The US has a different system to here so we don't need to leave tips.

Why don't you tip other servers such as supermarket till workers, shop attendants, coffee shop workers etc.

They do a similar job on similar money but get nothing.

Dyr

From a legal perspective you wonder what sort of legal ground an employer is on here, if I hand money to someone, even if it's in their capacity as employee performing their duties, what grounds does a third party (their boss) have to confiscate it?

They're sailing close to theft it seems to me

murpho999

Teddy Daniels wrote: »

should be expected and is expected are two different things, i tip 20% as long as they keep my wife happy.

Why would you tip 20% just to keep your wife happy?

Imagine if everything in life was 20% dearer for absolutely no reason?

I tip the server, if i found out the business had swiped it and redistributed it id report them for the vat and payrole implications.

What VAT and payroll implications?

You don't pay VAT on revenue which is what a swiped tip would be.

Also it would not be deemed as pay for the staff so there is no pay roll implications.

Theft is the avenue you should go down as I think that's the only wrong that is being done here.

andekwarhola

It wouldn't be a bad idea if restaurants were obliged to declare how tips are processed and let customers decide with their feet if that's OK.

It is a gratuity - outside of the cost of your meal - that you pay from your own pocket, after all. And in many cases, it's a gratuity you personally opt to pay based on goodwill between you and the member(s) of staff you are being implicitly led to believe are receiving the money.

Yohnathan

the_pen_turner wrote: »

first of all im against tipping unless the services was above what should be expected. almost imposible

second. any tips are given to the company through the staff member. its the staff member that would be steeling.
what the owner decides to do with company money is up to them. (it should be equally split imo)

I have so many replies to this;

1. I grew up working in a family business and my father had 10 bar staff at least. Everyone kept their own tips and if my father was tipped, he would keep his own tip, nobody else's.

2. When I went to University, I worked in a bar in Dublin where everybody kept their own tips. There was around 30 employees on any given night. The bar staff, floor staff and the doormen all kept their own tips. These additional contributions to our wages helped a lot of the students to get through the week.

3. I am finished University 5 years and since I got my "professional job" I now go out of my way to tip good waiters, and especially good barmen. You have to remember that these people are often struggling through college or have kids to raise. Nobody is made tip and even if you cannot pay the 10%, 2 euro would even be appreciated.

4. I do not tip the Company, I tip the staff member I have provided the money to. If someone is stealing in a scenario like this, it is the owner who has taken the property right of the waiter/waitress/bar staff etc (protected by our constitution).

5. I have no real issue if it is equally split but this should be done when you pay by card for instance and it then goes into the company's bank account. This covers the staff who are not front of the business. If however, I give the waitress etc physical cash in hand, then it is for them and them only. The owner does not have the right to decide what he or she wants to do with my money. That is my decision. I have already paid the owner what he has asked for.

6. If you ever worked in the service industry and no longer do, make sure that you don't forget how hungry you once were for that additional bit of money to count at the end of your night. Ex-Service staff should tip current service staff.

seamus

andekwarhola wrote: »

It wouldn't be a bad idea if restaurants were obliged to declare how tips are processed and let customers decide with their feet if that's OK.

It is a gratuity - outside of the cost of your meal - that you pay from your own pocket, after all. And in many cases, it's a gratuity you personally opt to pay based on goodwill between you and the member(s) of staff you are being implicitly led to believe are receiving the money.

An opposition bill was put forward last year to deal with exactly this. It would require that restaurants have their tipping policy displayed on their menus and include protections for employees.

It'll probably sit idle and be dusted off by some Government in a few years.

I'd personally prefer that we worked to eliminate it completely, encourage companies to proudly display a "we pay our staff enough that you don't need to tip them" sign. It's considered offensive in Japanese culture to tip staff, because you're implying the owner is a cheapskate. A staff member who takes the tip is also offending his employer by implying that he's not getting enough.
Japanese restaurants in the US operate a no-tip culture and their staff report them as some of the best places to work.

Tipping in Ireland only really came in during the 90's, it's an effete Americanism designed to show off how generous you are. But now we've all been sucked into it and staff treated shoddily on the basis that the customers will pick up owner's slack.

LuasSimon

To be honest if it was my own daughter id stop them working in the restaurant.

Why would anyone work in a restaurant on a minimum wage if there wasn't a few tips to help ?

Restaurant owners that take tips off the staff should be named and shamed.

Teddy Daniels

seamus wrote: »

There are no VAT or payroll implications.

Staff have no general entitlement to receive personal gifts. Some company policies require that all gifts are passed onto the company for redistribution. This can include flowers and chocolates.

In effect the employee is a representative of the company. Legally any gift to an employee during the course of their work, is considered a gift to the company

A tip is no different in law. If it is company policy that the company takes the tips, then that's how it works, scabby as it may be.

So there are no VAT or payroll implications, but there would be income tax implications. If the owner is pocketing it as spare cash and not declaring it, then he could be in trouble.

For tipping, I'll usually throw in 10% where the staff have been good. Nothing at all though if gratuity is added on.

Sorry but if the owner receives it there is vat at13.5%
Vat on payment for services
If it’s re distributed then there is all the payroll
And
Finally the income tax as gross monies received

dartboardio

I tip rarely.

Even though ive worked in the service industry.
I dont look at people odd when they dont.

As someone said above its not really the given culture in Ireland but its creeping in.

When i was in germany recently i was due €23 change and the woman gave me my 20 note and said 'i keep this yeah for tip'

That really annoyed me.

Meals out cost enough imo without the added expense of feeling like you have to tip. We only tip when we really feel its deserved

DEFTLEFTHAND

Christ, we really are turning into Americans.

BeerWolf

Pooling tips to be shared across staff is better than just the waiting staff getting it while the chefs work their butts off cooking good meals...

That being said, why the hell are you tipping? This ain't the US...

[Deleted User]

Tipping is stupid, unless very warranted. I get three 25-litre bottles of water delivered to the 4th floor and tip the guy, and that's about it because it's physically difficult.

Paying extra because someone didn't muck up your order and wore a fake smile? No thanks. No one tipped me for that in Dunnes.

Phileas Frog

murpho999 wrote: »

Why would you tip 20% just to keep your wife happy?

Imagine if everything in life was 20% dearer for absolutely no reason?

You're obviously not married

Pauliedragon

Apparantly there's a bill going through the Seanad today wherby venues will have to put signs up stating where tip money goes. I don't have time to look it up. Should clear things up hopefully for everyone.

seamus

Teddy Daniels wrote: »

Sorry but if the owner receives it there is vat at13.5%
Vat on payment for services

This is only true if the gratuity is added to the bill automatically, i.e. a service charge.

Voluntary gratuities are not payment for services and therefore not subject to VAT.

If it’s re distributed then there is all the payroll

Again, only if the service charge is redistributed. Voluntary/cash-in-hand tips are not considered employer compensation and therefore should not be processed through payroll.

Strictly speaking if cash tips are pooled and divided at the end of the night, then the employer is supposed to run them through payroll. But given that these numbers never even hit the employer's accounts, it's virtually never going to happen and neither Revenue or DSP are going to care.

It would also be fair to argue that the employees have agreed amongst themselves to pool and divide tips, and it's not an employer matter, therefore not relevant to payroll.

Finally the income tax as gross monies received

Correct. Anyone in receipt of voluntary tips should be making an income tax declaration.

Pauliedragon wrote: »

Apparantly there's a bill going through the Seanad today wherby venues will have to put signs up stating where tip money goes. I don't have time to look it up. Should clear things up hopefully for everyone.

You're right. It's the one that I said would be parked and gather dust

https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/bills/bill/2017/40/

It's still in early stages, so there's a way to go yet and plenty of drafts to get through.

The general thrust is that it would be unlawful for an employer to make any deductions from tips and that they would have to display their policy.

A brief look at it, tells me that it's too broad. Under the given article, every business from restaurants to solicitors, even Dublin Bus, would be obliged to have and display a tipping policy. Any company operating a "no tips" policy could also be taken to court under this bill, which is ridiculous.

So it's very immature at the moment.

JustMe,K

My daughter works part time in a place where she is quite well paid (above minimum wage) and she gets good tips, but they have to go into the tip jar, and get divided between all staff (from the manager down to the KP) based on the number of hours worked. If there is an error on a bill, or someone underpays, that comes out of the tip jar also. She could get €70 in tips a night, but not be allowed to keep them and end up with €15 at the end of the week. There are cameras everywhere and they are checked to see if tips are pocketed, and more recently only the manager or shift supervisor is allowed to produce bills and take payments so there would be little opportunity for waiting staff to keep their tips secretly.

I dont think its fair the way they do it, but the job is handy for her for now.

Ush1

kcdiom wrote: »

My daughter works part time in a place where she is quite well paid (above minimum wage) and she gets good tips, but they have to go into the tip jar, and get divided between all staff (from the manager down to the KP) based on the number of hours worked. If there is an error on a bill, or someone underpays, that comes out of the tip jar also. She could get €70 in tips a night, but not be allowed to keep them and end up with €15 at the end of the week. There are cameras everywhere and they are checked to see if tips are pocketed, and more recently only the manager or shift supervisor is allowed to produce bills and take payments so there would be little opportunity for waiting staff to keep their tips secretly.

I dont think its fair the way they do it, but the job is handy for her for now.

It's like socialism on a small scale. Everybody ends up a bit miserable.