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Recommend electric folding scooter for end of commute (Mod Note Post #1)

goz83

Mod Note: I've discussed with site admins, due to the current legal situation recommendations cannot be made for use of electric scooters on public roads in Ireland, but can be made for use on private property. However, we will allow discussion of e-scooters for purchase for use on private property, and other jurisdictions such as France/Germany where they are legal for use. This restriction will be lifted as soon as the legal situation changes, which will hopefully be soon.

I was thinking of getting one of those xiaomi m365 folding scooters to cover the last 5 kilometres of the journey as I come into the city and traffic gets mad. I am looking for peoples experiences with them.

I understand they are in a bit of a legal grey area, but you need to push this scooter to get going, so technically it doesn’t operate on mechanical power alone which is what the rsa site mentions as the definition of an mpv.

I’ll be travelling about 15km each way from urban to city. Due to a back injury, I can’t spend an hour stuck in traffic twice per day. I can’t tolerate public transport and it would be much more expensive (over €100 per month, compared to about €5 per month in my Leaf and m365).

So, my plan would be to drive about 10km and park the car before hitting the city centre. Parking would be free as I would be well outside the cc. I would then scoot the rest of the way to my destination and do the reverse on my return journey. I wouldn’t be stuck in traffic for too long and the range of the scooter should easily cover the return journey without destination charging. The scooter will cost around €400 to buy and claims 30km per charge...I am expecting 15.

What do you think?

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Martynet

grogi wrote: »

A scooter like that is not really suitable to be driven on a road - rather cycle paths and walkways. But it still is very fast - and it is very easy to make serious harm - hurt a pedestrian when riding a scooter like that.

I am all for making our transport much more sustainable. But as it stands, just making them legal is a recipe for disaster IMHO. They really would need to be seriously limited - to ~10 kmh - to be allowed to be used without insurance and driving license.

When I cycle to work, my speed going downhill is around 40-50 km/h. So I don't think that bicycle is less harmfull than a scooter. I think that scooters should be allowed in cycling lane, to keep the riders safe. Most of the scooter riders keep the average speed around 25-35 km/h. Which is perfectly safe. I wouldn't allow scooter on the path, unless there is no road or cycle lane.

Anyway, lots has to change, because scooters and other similar gadgets are amazing commuting devices... And we need to find political support and more riders

Martynet

quarryman wrote: »

Still loving my Zoom Stryder. About 450km done on it now.

The best part is the full suspension. I don’t know how anyone clocks up miles on the M365 without any suspension on it.

I love bunny hopping off the odd kerb on my way home.

My advice: don’t cheap out on the models with no suspension. Irish roads just aren’t made for it.

Same here. Went for Dualtron Spider. Should come this weeks. It's the longest waiting in my life... Ordered it at the end of november. Btw, you are welcome to share any info and experince, photos, etc in the FB group "Electric Scooter Ireland", I created recently. And if you know any other riders, invite them in too. cheers

beauf

loyatemu wrote: »

do you have proof they're more dangerous? Pedestrians have been killed by cyclists but it's incredibly rare, I don't think the risk from scooters is likely to be much higher (they weigh about the same as a bike but I assume most of that weight is in the base in the form of batteries).

The US has both for a while. One opinion is that people under estimate the speed of the scooters and get out of their depth very fast. I've no opinion on it either way.

the death rate on shared Lime and Bike e-scooters is roughly one per 10.75 million trips. There have been just two bike share deaths nationwide, making the death rate roughly one for every 61.5 million trips,

beauf

Heres a Vid https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1tuQqSXrVlo&feature=youtu.be

loyatemu

grogi wrote: »

Bicycles do require you to pedal - going fast is hard - and have much bigger wheels - thus navigating the potholes is easier. Electric scooter is much more dangerous and I wouldn't like to see any wanker going around on one. I also don't believe that Gardai will be able to keep them under control.

do you have proof they're more dangerous? Pedestrians have been killed by cyclists but it's incredibly rare, I don't think the risk from scooters is likely to be much higher (they weigh about the same as a bike but I assume most of that weight is in the base in the form of batteries).

beauf

Shefwedfan wrote: »

They are rated at that speed when a mouse is on them.....unfortunately the oversized Irish man will restrict the speed a bit....first time I stood up on the M365 the tyre blew out with the weight of me :P:P:P

I joke, but not a chance in hell with an adult they get close to that speed. My sister in law took the M365 for a spin. She is very petite and it didn't get up to that speed.

The M365 is 250w the others are more powerful.

Shefwedfan

grogi wrote: »

I count myself lucky then - I literally have no idea what you're talking about...

I don't live in Dublin but I go in and out of Dublin regular, you will see them dotted around different parts of Dublin.....not too hard either, normally you can hear long before you can see

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Shefwedfan

beauf wrote: »

You're only looking at low end ones. There are many more,

This one does 30kph
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=109080662&postcount=417

This one 40kph
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=108801308&postcount=363

They are rated at that speed when a mouse is on them.....unfortunately the oversized Irish man will restrict the speed a bit....first time I stood up on the M365 the tyre blew out with the weight of me :P:P:P

I joke, but not a chance in hell with an adult they get close to that speed. My sister in law took the M365 for a spin. She is very petite and it didn't get up to that speed.

beauf

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Don't agree it's more dangerous than a bicycle. It stops quickly and doesn't go near as fast.
When did we become so soft that scooting was seen as dangerous.

You're only looking at low end ones. There are many more,

This one does 30kph
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=109080662&postcount=417

This one 40kph
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=108801308&postcount=363

grogi

antodeco wrote: »

Sure the Gardai cant even keep scramblers under control!

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Hard to control. How many scrambles and little quads are flying around the green areas in Dublin? no license/insurance/tax nothing......they can go alot quicker than a scooter.....

I count myself lucky then - I literally have no idea what you're talking about...

Shefwedfan

grogi wrote: »

Bicycles do require you to pedal - going fast is hard - and have much bigger wheels - thus navigating the potholes is easier. Electric scooter is much more dangerous and I wouldn't like to see any wanker going around on one. I also don't believe that Gardai will be able to keep them under control.

Hard to control. How many scrambles and little quads are flying around the green areas in Dublin? no license/insurance/tax nothing......they can go alot quicker than a scooter.....

They are more of a nuisance than a scooter

antodeco

grogi wrote: »

Bicycles do require you to pedal - going fast is hard - and have much bigger wheels - thus navigating the potholes is easier. Electric scooter is much more dangerous and I wouldn't like to see any wanker going around on one. I also don't believe that Gardai will be able to keep them under control.

Sure the Gardai cant even keep scramblers under control!

drunkmonkey

Don't agree it's more dangerous than a bicycle. It stops quickly and doesn't go near as fast.
When did we become so soft that scooting was seen as dangerous.

grogi

antodeco wrote: »

Problem is that they will need to implement it for cycling as well. If it's just based on speed, bicycles can go faster. It gets messy quickly!

Bicycles do require you to pedal - going fast is hard - and have much bigger wheels - thus navigating the potholes is easier. Electric scooter is much more dangerous and I wouldn't like to see any wanker going around on one. I also don't believe that Gardai will be able to keep them under control.

antodeco

grogi wrote: »

A scooter like that is not really suitable to be driven on a road - rather cycle paths and walkways. But it still is very fast - and it is very easy to make serious harm - hurt a pedestrian when riding a scooter like that.

I am all for making our transport much more sustainable. But as it stands, just making them legal is a recipe for disaster IMHO. They really would need to be seriously limited - to ~10 kmh - to be allowed to be used without insurance and driving license.

Problem is that they will need to implement it for cycling as well. If it's just based on speed, bicycles can go faster. It gets messy quickly!

beauf

It will keep going till they put some legal framework around scooters and other electric vehicles.

http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2018-10/26/c_137561024.htm

grogi

quarryman wrote: »

I emailed him and he said it needed to be redrafted. Didn’t get the impression anything was going to happen soon.

A scooter like that is not really suitable to be driven on a road - rather cycle paths and walkways. But it still is very fast - and it is very easy to make serious harm - hurt a pedestrian when riding a scooter like that.

I am all for making our transport much more sustainable. But as it stands, just making them legal is a recipe for disaster IMHO. They really would need to be seriously limited - to ~10 kmh - to be allowed to be used without insurance and driving license.

Shefwedfan

Eire Go Brach wrote: »

And here we go again. The thread is like a circle.

I said it a few pages back, every couple of weeks the same discussion about them on the road, maybe a seperate thread to discuss the legal ramifications of the scooter

quarryman

cojomo2 wrote: »

Anyone know of any update on Noel Rock's attempt to update the law to explicitly allow electric scooters?

I emailed him and he said it needed to be redrafted. Didn’t get the impression anything was going to happen soon.

cojomo2

Anyone know of any update on Noel Rock's attempt to update the law to explicitly allow electric scooters?

beauf

Eire Go Brach wrote: »

And here we go again. The thread is like a circle.

More powerful scooters available now. They aren't as limited as these current scooters. Should be fun.

beauf

So what YOU are saying the limitation on eBikes across the EU that stops assistance if you stop pedaling or if you exceed 25kph is entirely meaningless.

Which implies its ok if they don't need to pedal
they can just push start, and can do 25+ with no limit (bikes don't have a speed limit) they can do motorbike speed limits no problem if they aren't limited by law.

The reason it cuts off at 25 is because most people can't pedal faster than that. So it limits the top speed. If that limit doesn't exist then you can go as fast as you want in theory.

An unlimited eBike would be perfect for my Commute.

Eire Go Brach

And here we go again. The thread is like a circle.

ED E

cojomo2 wrote: »

The law on this is still open to interpretation. RSA site states the following:

"If it can be powered by mechanical or electrical power alone (i.e. it can go without you pedalling or scooting
it) then it is considered to be a mechanically propelled vehicle (MPV)."

One could argue both ways on above..the Xiaomi cannot be powered by electrical means alone without first manually scooting it. Equally, it could be argued that when manually brought up to speed, it can be powered by battery alone.

The law is is open to interpretation on models such as the Xiaomi...if you are unfortunate enough to be involved in a serious accident on a model that doesnt require a manual assist to get going, you have no argument.

Ignore the RSA site. Check the Road Traffic Act. You can't quote RSA.ie to a judge.

ED E

antodeco wrote: »

Surely if you have "open drive" on your car policy, you are insured on one of these? It is defined as a "vehicle".

Open Drive applies to an already insured vehicle:
Eg: My car is insured to me with open drive, Uncle Jimmy can drive it

You mean driving other cars. DOC nearly always requires that other car be insured in its own right. Which the escooter wouldnt be. It probably also limits you to the same class so DOC wouldn't cover you to drive a 40ft.

cojomo2

antodeco wrote: »

Surely if you have "open drive" on your car policy, you are insured on one of these? It is defined as a "vehicle".

If it is actually found to be an MPV, you need tax, number plate, indicators and more!

antodeco

Surely if you have "open drive" on your car policy, you are insured on one of these? It is defined as a "vehicle".

cojomo2

beauf wrote: »

It's a pity the legal definition isn't about being assisted start then. It's about it cutting off power if assistance is removed. None of them do that.

Which means that all these scooters are equal legally.

With the exception one the micro one
https://www.micro-step.nl/en/falcon.html
Which has a true assist mode.

They should just make them all legal. It's a great solution to congestion.

The law on this is still open to interpretation. RSA site states the following:

"If it can be powered by mechanical or electrical power alone (i.e. it can go without you pedalling or scooting
it) then it is considered to be a mechanically propelled vehicle (MPV)."

One could argue both ways on above..the Xiaomi cannot be powered by electrical means alone without first manually scooting it. Equally, it could be argued that when manually brought up to speed, it can be powered by battery alone.

The law is is open to interpretation on models such as the Xiaomi...if you are unfortunate enough to be involved in a serious accident on a model that doesnt require a manual assist to get going, you have no argument.

andy_g

Garibaldi? wrote: »

Could you take one on the bus?

Yes you can i bring mine on the bus daily, and use bus eireann and dublin bus.
Not had any problems with the gaurds either got talking to one last week who said he also used on. Regarding tax and insurance he said the bigger ones with a seat or saddle will require it once revenue bring in a tax band.

Also he mentioned we should have helmets.

beauf

cojomo2 wrote: »

....On the.legal bit, surely thats open to interpretation, as it could be argued that it is assisted ....

It's a pity the legal definition isn't about being assisted start then. It's about it cutting off power if assistance is removed. None of them do that.

Which means that all these scooters are equal legally.

With the exception one the micro one
https://www.micro-step.nl/en/falcon.html
Which has a true assist mode.

They should just make them all legal. It's a great solution to congestion.