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Recommend electric folding scooter for end of commute (Mod Note Post #1)

goz83

Mod Note: I've discussed with site admins, due to the current legal situation recommendations cannot be made for use of electric scooters on public roads in Ireland, but can be made for use on private property. However, we will allow discussion of e-scooters for purchase for use on private property, and other jurisdictions such as France/Germany where they are legal for use. This restriction will be lifted as soon as the legal situation changes, which will hopefully be soon.

I was thinking of getting one of those xiaomi m365 folding scooters to cover the last 5 kilometres of the journey as I come into the city and traffic gets mad. I am looking for peoples experiences with them.

I understand they are in a bit of a legal grey area, but you need to push this scooter to get going, so technically it doesn’t operate on mechanical power alone which is what the rsa site mentions as the definition of an mpv.

I’ll be travelling about 15km each way from urban to city. Due to a back injury, I can’t spend an hour stuck in traffic twice per day. I can’t tolerate public transport and it would be much more expensive (over €100 per month, compared to about €5 per month in my Leaf and m365).

So, my plan would be to drive about 10km and park the car before hitting the city centre. Parking would be free as I would be well outside the cc. I would then scoot the rest of the way to my destination and do the reverse on my return journey. I wouldn’t be stuck in traffic for too long and the range of the scooter should easily cover the return journey without destination charging. The scooter will cost around €400 to buy and claims 30km per charge...I am expecting 15.

What do you think?

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yosser hughes

antodeco wrote: »

Interesting. I wonder would it be covered under the bike to work scheme?

I was curious about that myself. Anyone tried that yet?

beauf

CFC007 wrote: »

Cancelled the one on geek in the end as got a used Xiaomi one. Did a 16km one way commute yesterday. Made it home with 19% battery and that’s with a cfw on it.

How are you finding it.

antodeco

I'm really beginning to lean towards one of these. I have a folding BMW MINI Bike that has literally never been used! (I won it late 2017 and been gathering dust since). Might sell it and use the funds to buy 1 of these. Would be handy for quick spins to shops!

CFC007

Good yeah very powerful. Less stress than the Dublin bikes from Heuston station.

beauf wrote: »

How are you finding it.

beauf

No hassle on your route. Where do you leave it at the office. Also where do you put it on the train. They are bigger than I was expecting.

CFC007

I stick it under my desk, can charge it then when needed. On the train I put in the luggage area folded up but I’ve seen people with it unfolded standing by the exit doors.

beauf wrote: »

No hassle on your route. Where do you leave it at the office. Also where do you put it on the train. They are bigger than I was expecting.

quarryman

Still loving my Zoom Stryder. About 450km done on it now.

The best part is the full suspension. I don’t know how anyone clocks up miles on the M365 without any suspension on it.

I love bunny hopping off the odd kerb on my way home.

My advice: don’t cheap out on the models with no suspension. Irish roads just aren’t made for it.

drunkmonkey

I've a good few km clocked up on one, suspension isn't really an issue, just avoid the potholes etc. I'd say if you want to get the claimed range you need to be under the weight limit though.

Garibaldi?

Could you take one on the bus?

drunkmonkey

It folds up making it easy to carry so I don't see why not.

Shefwedfan

So which would be better, M365 about 100 quid more

M365
250w motor
16NM
7.8AH
Air tyre

Kugoo
350w motor
13.3NM torque
6AH Battery capacity
Non-air

cojomo2

drunkmonkey wrote: »

I need to double check I think it's 12mt warranty but could be 2yrs the same as their phones. If it's faulty it's collect and return, they'll pick it up and drop it back to you that's probably worth the premium alone, there was 2 spare tyres in the box and something else I'd have to go find it to check.

Legality, by the letter or the law they need tax and insurance but I've passed a good few Garda and only got smiles. Chatting to a chap the other night he had his confiscated but he told them he was on the way home from the pub but they said he could collect it in the morning.
It's all down to who you meet.

Regarding the warranty, I rang 3 grafton st and the agent told me 3 yrs. I asked if that covered the battery too and he confirmed it did. Seems too good tbh!

On the.legal bit, surely thats open to interpretation, as it could be argued that it is assisted ( you have to manually push it up to speed first). Whereas with other models that don't require the.manual push start -you have zero argument in court here as they definitely fall under the current definition of an MPV.?For that reason alone I'd go for a push start model such as the Xiaomi.

beauf

I expect Three are as clueless as they are with phones.

beauf

cojomo2 wrote: »

....On the.legal bit, surely thats open to interpretation, as it could be argued that it is assisted ....

It's a pity the legal definition isn't about being assisted start then. It's about it cutting off power if assistance is removed. None of them do that.

Which means that all these scooters are equal legally.

With the exception one the micro one
https://www.micro-step.nl/en/falcon.html
Which has a true assist mode.

They should just make them all legal. It's a great solution to congestion.

andy_g

Garibaldi? wrote: »

Could you take one on the bus?

Yes you can i bring mine on the bus daily, and use bus eireann and dublin bus.
Not had any problems with the gaurds either got talking to one last week who said he also used on. Regarding tax and insurance he said the bigger ones with a seat or saddle will require it once revenue bring in a tax band.

Also he mentioned we should have helmets.

cojomo2

beauf wrote: »

It's a pity the legal definition isn't about being assisted start then. It's about it cutting off power if assistance is removed. None of them do that.

Which means that all these scooters are equal legally.

With the exception one the micro one
https://www.micro-step.nl/en/falcon.html
Which has a true assist mode.

They should just make them all legal. It's a great solution to congestion.

The law on this is still open to interpretation. RSA site states the following:

"If it can be powered by mechanical or electrical power alone (i.e. it can go without you pedalling or scooting
it) then it is considered to be a mechanically propelled vehicle (MPV)."

One could argue both ways on above..the Xiaomi cannot be powered by electrical means alone without first manually scooting it. Equally, it could be argued that when manually brought up to speed, it can be powered by battery alone.

The law is is open to interpretation on models such as the Xiaomi...if you are unfortunate enough to be involved in a serious accident on a model that doesnt require a manual assist to get going, you have no argument.

antodeco

Surely if you have "open drive" on your car policy, you are insured on one of these? It is defined as a "vehicle".

cojomo2

antodeco wrote: »

Surely if you have "open drive" on your car policy, you are insured on one of these? It is defined as a "vehicle".

If it is actually found to be an MPV, you need tax, number plate, indicators and more!

ED E

antodeco wrote: »

Surely if you have "open drive" on your car policy, you are insured on one of these? It is defined as a "vehicle".

Open Drive applies to an already insured vehicle:
Eg: My car is insured to me with open drive, Uncle Jimmy can drive it

You mean driving other cars. DOC nearly always requires that other car be insured in its own right. Which the escooter wouldnt be. It probably also limits you to the same class so DOC wouldn't cover you to drive a 40ft.

ED E

cojomo2 wrote: »

The law on this is still open to interpretation. RSA site states the following:

"If it can be powered by mechanical or electrical power alone (i.e. it can go without you pedalling or scooting
it) then it is considered to be a mechanically propelled vehicle (MPV)."

One could argue both ways on above..the Xiaomi cannot be powered by electrical means alone without first manually scooting it. Equally, it could be argued that when manually brought up to speed, it can be powered by battery alone.

The law is is open to interpretation on models such as the Xiaomi...if you are unfortunate enough to be involved in a serious accident on a model that doesnt require a manual assist to get going, you have no argument.

Ignore the RSA site. Check the Road Traffic Act. You can't quote RSA.ie to a judge.

Eire Go Brach

And here we go again. The thread is like a circle.

beauf

So what YOU are saying the limitation on eBikes across the EU that stops assistance if you stop pedaling or if you exceed 25kph is entirely meaningless.

Which implies its ok if they don't need to pedal
they can just push start, and can do 25+ with no limit (bikes don't have a speed limit) they can do motorbike speed limits no problem if they aren't limited by law.

The reason it cuts off at 25 is because most people can't pedal faster than that. So it limits the top speed. If that limit doesn't exist then you can go as fast as you want in theory.

An unlimited eBike would be perfect for my Commute.

beauf

Eire Go Brach wrote: »

And here we go again. The thread is like a circle.

More powerful scooters available now. They aren't as limited as these current scooters. Should be fun.

cojomo2

Anyone know of any update on Noel Rock's attempt to update the law to explicitly allow electric scooters?

quarryman

cojomo2 wrote: »

Anyone know of any update on Noel Rock's attempt to update the law to explicitly allow electric scooters?

I emailed him and he said it needed to be redrafted. Didn’t get the impression anything was going to happen soon.

Shefwedfan

Eire Go Brach wrote: »

And here we go again. The thread is like a circle.

I said it a few pages back, every couple of weeks the same discussion about them on the road, maybe a seperate thread to discuss the legal ramifications of the scooter

grogi

quarryman wrote: »

I emailed him and he said it needed to be redrafted. Didn’t get the impression anything was going to happen soon.

A scooter like that is not really suitable to be driven on a road - rather cycle paths and walkways. But it still is very fast - and it is very easy to make serious harm - hurt a pedestrian when riding a scooter like that.

I am all for making our transport much more sustainable. But as it stands, just making them legal is a recipe for disaster IMHO. They really would need to be seriously limited - to ~10 kmh - to be allowed to be used without insurance and driving license.

beauf

It will keep going till they put some legal framework around scooters and other electric vehicles.

http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2018-10/26/c_137561024.htm

antodeco

grogi wrote: »

A scooter like that is not really suitable to be driven on a road - rather cycle paths and walkways. But it still is very fast - and it is very easy to make serious harm - hurt a pedestrian when riding a scooter like that.

I am all for making our transport much more sustainable. But as it stands, just making them legal is a recipe for disaster IMHO. They really would need to be seriously limited - to ~10 kmh - to be allowed to be used without insurance and driving license.

Problem is that they will need to implement it for cycling as well. If it's just based on speed, bicycles can go faster. It gets messy quickly!

grogi

antodeco wrote: »

Problem is that they will need to implement it for cycling as well. If it's just based on speed, bicycles can go faster. It gets messy quickly!

Bicycles do require you to pedal - going fast is hard - and have much bigger wheels - thus navigating the potholes is easier. Electric scooter is much more dangerous and I wouldn't like to see any wanker going around on one. I also don't believe that Gardai will be able to keep them under control.