RoseHayes wrote: » Actually there is a shortage of Primary Teachers in Ireland. And the Government would look and abroad if they could, but Fluent Irish speaking Asian Primary Teachers proficient im Music, literacy, maths, science etc aren't in great supply! At least with nurses they can attract from Asia/Africa. Have you a link to UK needing 40k nurses? Please suggest an exact figure you think nurses should be paid?
Alrigghtythen wrote: » Compared to a new entrant nurse in the English NHS, a new entrant nurse in Ireland earns 21 per cent more in basic pay based on current exchange rates. While allowances and promotional opportunities differ across jurisdictions, a nurse at the top of the HSE staff nurse scale would earn 39 per cent more than a nurse at the top of the NHS England B and 5 scale. “More broadly, OECD nursing remuneration data show that, in purchasing power parity terms, Irish nursing pay (including allowances and premium payments) between 2007 and 2017 was consistently on a par with Australia and higher than New Zealand, Canada and the UK,” notes the spending review. It also maintains that 82 per cent of all nurses and midwives are on basic salaries of more than €40,000 exclusive of allowances or premium payments.
RoseHayes wrote: » It's so obvious that this thread is littered with nurses Any valid argument raised against a pay rise for nurses they get bullied. Gardai should get paid the same as nurses, they start at 23k!!!
GraceLehane wrote: » That makes sense. Employ more nurses to improve conditions.
Graces7 wrote: » What do folk make of this?https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2019/0113/1022957-nurses-pay-doherty/ Header is "Doherty: Nurses have not said they are not happy with pay" Please read the article? Interesting..
Ipso wrote: » How much extra tax are you willing to pay for their rise?
GraceLehane wrote: » Nurses are paid enough. It's the conditions that aren't favourable.
GraceLehane wrote: » gmisk wrote: » You think all nurses are paid enough? I ] Let's be realistic here nurses aren't the brain surgeons or doctors in the hospital. That figure quoted is base pay and before average allowances of 4 to 6k. Most engineers start on less which is laughable !I think the Government should just pool their e resources into a campaign in recruiting foreign nurses. You think they would be queueing up to move to ireland with that kind of money given the cost of rent in most cities in ireland?
gmisk wrote: » You think all nurses are paid enough? I ] Let's be realistic here nurses aren't the brain surgeons or doctors in the hospital. That figure quoted is base pay and before average allowances of 4 to 6k. Most engineers start on less which is laughable !I think the Government should just pool their e resources into a campaign in recruiting foreign nurses.
GraceLehane wrote: » gmisk wrote: » You think all nurses are paid enough? I ] Let's be realistic here nurses aren't the brain surgeons or doctors in the hospital. That figure quoted is base pay and before average allowances of 4 to 6k. Most engineers start on less which is laughable ! I think the Government should just pool their e resources into a campaign in recruiting foreign nurses. A foreign nurse will get a moving fee. Once they are over here they will still be on the same pay structure the current nurses are on. Or are you asking for the Government to pay less to foreign nurses?
gmisk wrote: » You think all nurses are paid enough? I ] Let's be realistic here nurses aren't the brain surgeons or doctors in the hospital. That figure quoted is base pay and before average allowances of 4 to 6k. Most engineers start on less which is laughable ! I think the Government should just pool their e resources into a campaign in recruiting foreign nurses.
Shefwedfan wrote: » GraceLehane wrote: » A foreign nurse will get a moving fee. Once they are over here they will still be on the same pay structure the current nurses are on. Or are you asking for the Government to pay less to foreign nurses? Of course I am not, no idea where you got that suggestion from. Do foreign nurses get a moving fee now? Or is that something you are suggesting?
GraceLehane wrote: » A foreign nurse will get a moving fee. Once they are over here they will still be on the same pay structure the current nurses are on. Or are you asking for the Government to pay less to foreign nurses?
Goldengirl wrote: » This would be because their BASIC salary goes up incrementally every year they work until it hits 12 years service, which is classed as MAX, then it rattles around on a long service increment until they hit 20 years service and they get a senior staff nurse wage. So if all the young ones are leaving that would most probably account for the 82 % on salaries more than €40 k , but it's not their BASIC wage!
mariaalice wrote: » Anyone have any idea where the simmering dislike of nurses along with the slight underlining nastiness of posters like Padraig Mor comes from? a few more similar posters on this thread. Union spin has very little to do with front line staff.
Padraig Mor wrote: » Just had a look at the Pay Commission report which includes the actual FACTS. "The average earnings for all HSE Staff Nurses in 2017 was approximately €51,000 with allowances, overtime and other payments accounting for approximately 20% to 25% of these earnings." Note this is only for Staff Nurse grade - not Senior Staff Nurse (average approx €62k) or managerial grades - so the most 'basic' nurses. Note also that overtime (as opposed to premium payments and allowances) makes up only a tiny fraction of the overall figure. If anything, the graph below suggests that the higher grades are underpaid - why bother being a Director of Nursing (used they not be called matrons?) for the sake of the few grand more it pays than being a relatively lowly Senior Staff Nurse? Of course, we'll have posters here again trying to deny reality and telling us that averages aren't average etc......
Shefwedfan wrote: » How many nights shifts and weekends do you current work? how many Christmas Day? Christmas Eve's? New Year Days? etc do you work? Also the most "basic" nurse as you put it still has a degree. Over 57% of people currently living in Ireland have no degree. So the most "basic" nurse isn't really that basic is it? How many people in Ireland are earning over 51k basic and don't have a degree and work 9-5?
lawred2 wrote: » ye what? 43% of people living in Ireland have a degree? really? sounds high
Padraig Mor wrote: » I'd appreciate if you withdrew that remark. I don't believe that I've made any comment that can be construed as 'nasty' on this thread. Indeed, I don't believe I've given any view on whether nurses' pay should be increased or not. What I have done, however, is point out that it's literally impossible to say "nurses deserve a payrise" without first quantifying what nurses are actually paid, and further showed that all the available factual data shows that nurses are, on average, paid a lot more than the majority of people realise. Unfortunately, certain posters don't like the facts of the debate so resort to name calling and denial of the cold hard figures. As of yet, I have yet to see any 'pro pay rise' poster produce evidence that nurses are paid less than I have said.
mariaalice wrote: » You intimated that they abuse sick leave
and implied that the health services would be better off with agency nurses among other things.
Padraig Mor wrote: » They do (along with support staff). In particular, abuse of maternity related sick leave is rampant, just look at any report on the issue. To save you making the obvious point, hospital doctors - who are in contact with far more sick people than nurses - take sick leave at a fraction of the rate of nurses.
Padraig Mor wrote: » You twist or misunderstand what I wrote. What I said (in the context of a discussion on agency nurses) is that the HSE employs agency nurses in many cases because it's ultimately cheaper than employing permanent nurses.
Padraig Mor wrote: » They do (along with support staff). In particular, abuse of maternity related sick leave is rampant, just look at any report on the issue. To save you making the obvious point, hospital doctors - who are in contact with far more sick people than nurses - take sick leave at a fraction of the rate of nurses. You twist or misunderstand what I wrote. What I said (in the context of a discussion on agency nurses) is that the HSE employs agency nurses in many cases because it's ultimately cheaper than employing permanent nurses.
ELM327 wrote: » I'm supportive of the nurses, they do a terrific job and they should get a pay rise. But it should be cost neutral to the state, and funded by cuts elsewhere. Preferably at HSE management level.
Shefwedfan wrote: » As you said the HSE is run badly and has been for years. The wastage as a company is terrible. If it was managed properly they would have more than enought to provide increases to staff without looking at tax payer It is easier for Government to turn the nurse into the villian. They have done this every other time while the HSE management continue to earn big wages and not resolve any issues
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