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Do you think nurses will get their payrise?

hawkelady

As the title suggests ... do you think the government will give what the inmo is asking for ? The way pascal and Harris is talking it looks like it’s going to be a long drawn out process. Who will buckle first. Btw, I do hope the nurses get what they want and they do a great job.

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Padraig Mor

square ball wrote: »

The girlfriend is qualified over 5 years and getting paid €35k before tax having done a post grad and is responsible for giving out chemo to her patients. A teacher after 5 years is on over €41k. 35k before tax is very low for the stress, extra hours and responsibility.

I don't believe you.

At 5 years post qualification her basic salary should be €34876 - presumably the €35k you reference. However, if she has done an Oncology HDip (which would have been paid for her, and for which she would have had paid time off) and is working in an Oncology unit, as your post implies, she will also be receiving an allowance of €2791. Again, this is before any of the premium payments for late / weekend work which would further enhance her salary significantly if she's doing standard shifts. My betting is that, in reality, she is on more than the teacher you reference.

edit: crossed with previous post clarifying hours.

Glenbhoy

square ball wrote: »

She works in a day ward Monday to Friday and doesn't have to work nights/weekends. So doesn't get any allowances except the one for doing her postgrad which brings her up to the €35k.

That makes sense alright. How does the pay scale work though, is she not on the 5th point of the scale then or are increments not annual etc, just trying to understand as it seems out of kilter with what's out in the public domain.

hawkelady

Am I wrong in presuming that teachers are paid more that nurses who are both on the same level , as in teacher and nurse both qualified same amount of years but teacher is on higher wage .. I always thought that was a given ? Which is unfair I believe. Both professions needed but I would believe that nursing is more stressful due to longer days and a fraction of the holidays.
They both should be on a par at least

road_high

hawkelady wrote: »

Am I wrong in presuming that teachers are paid more that nurses who are both on the same level , as in teacher and nurse both qualified same amount of years but teacher is on higher wage .. I always thought that was a given ? Which is unfair I believe. Both professions needed but I would believe that nursing is more stressful due to longer days and a fraction of the holidays.
They both should be on a par at least

I wouldn't put Nursing on the same plane as Teaching- technically, academically there is just no comparison. Someone teaching Leaving Cert Physics or Maths at Higher Level....i know someone that trained as a Nurse in England having failed pass Maths here. To be blunt about it the same academic capacity is not required as they are completely different professions using different skills and education.

[Deleted User]

No 18 year old filling out a CAO form is going to be checking out the salary and conditions to the silly degree some here are implying they should, in the first few years its not bad pay wise in comparison to their peers it way falls behind after that though.

Its a lot to do with the changes in society, for example all jobs have become a lot more accountable, very few job allow the sort of coasting or not being psychologically present that would have happened in times gone by.

Society has become wealthier, so if a nurse male or female becomes a parent and their other half has a decent job and they are refused part time or flexible work, they will do agency work instead there is loads of work so why bother if you are not being met half way. In the 1980s it would have been different and so on.

We are transitioning to similar wealthy western countries, all the lower level job will be done by immigrant's who are often highly educated.

[Deleted User]

road_high wrote: »

I wouldn't put Nursing on the same plane as Teaching- technically, academically there is just no comparison. Someone teaching Leaving Cert Physics or Maths at Higher Level....i know someone that trained as a Nurse in England having failed pass Maths here. To be blunt about it the same academic capacity is not required as they are completely different professions using different skills and education.

You still need a degree and they are not handed out like smarties, comparing the contents of a degree is a bit petty.

chopperbyrne

My wife's a psychiatric nurse.

She didn't vote for strike action.

The PNA are going to compensate her to the tune of €15 a day.

road_high

mariaalice wrote: »

You still need a degree and they are not handed out like smarties, comparing the contents of a degree is a bit petty.

That's debatable but anyhow....why can't we compare contents of Degrees? People seem very happy to compare salaries so let's compare the intellectual capacities and knowledge behind them.

Fann Linn

chopperbyrne wrote: »

My wife's a psychiatric nurse.

She didn't vote for strike action.

The PNA are going to compensate her to the tune of €15 a day.

Well she could leave her union and go to work. Or else respect the result of the ballot. Her choice.

[Deleted User]

road_high wrote: »

That's debatable but anyhow....why can't we compare contents of Degrees? People seem very happy to compare salaries so let's compare the intellectual capacities and knowledge between them.

No they are comparing degree required for the job which it is, its a very public service thing.

Now whether you need a degree for the job is a different question, you do in today climate because of the level of responsibility.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

Dia1988 wrote: »

Those nurses do **** all anyway only sit down at nurses station and bitch how everything is so unfair for them and they're over worked, despite they sitting down for half their shift!

No. don't give them a pay rise!

They're not as qualified as Doctors, Primary Teachers , Engineers and/or architects.

Do nothing? The nurses in the oncology day ward I attend are on their feet non-stop for 12 hour shifts. I’m often on the ward for 10 hours. The plethora of things they have to deal with - making sure the right treatment in the right dosage goes to the right patient (getting this wrong can kill), making sure they are giving the right blood type to each person being tranfused (getting this wrong can kill), organising patients to be sent for emergency X-rays and CTs, relying correct information between doctors and patients, dealing with (very frequent) patient meltdowns, taking bloods (which can be very difficult in long-term patients with busted veins) and checking on delayed blood results, making sure that patients that are there all day get fed, organising for patients to be sent to in-patient wards if they deteriorate, assisting in bone marrow biopsies that often have to be done there and then on the ward - and that’s just the things I’ve observed. I’m sure I don’t know the half of it. I do know they have meetings to attend where they discuss patients and that’s a LOT of patients.

You DO sometime see them sitting at computers but the nurses’ station in the ward I visit is open to patients passing by. Playing solitaire they ain’t. They are usually scheduling things for patients or checking appointments.

road_high

mariaalice wrote: »

No they are comparing degree required for the job which it is, its a very public service thing.

Now whether you need a degree for the job is a different question, you do in today climate because of the level of responsibility.

I think Nursing is a great degree, it’s high quality for sure. I do agree Nurses need a degree these days alright as a minimum.
My main concern here is where we’d find the money for increased pay.

Graces7

chopperbyrne wrote: »

My wife's a psychiatric nurse.

She didn't vote for strike action.

The PNA are going to compensate her to the tune of €15 a day.

Good for her. No respect due to nurses who strike.

Fann Linn

Graces7 wrote: »

Good for her. No respect due to nurses who strike.

I think she is going on strike Grace.

Graces7

Fann Linn wrote: »

I think she is going on strike Grace.

Ok; that was not my reading of it, but that is how I and others feel re the strikes by nurses. No respect for them.

Mitch Connor

road_high wrote: »

That's debatable but anyhow....why can't we compare contents of Degrees? People seem very happy to compare salaries so let's compare the intellectual capacities and knowledge behind them.

I wouldn't trust a maths teacher to provide nursing care, so they should be paid less?

road_high

Mitch Connor wrote: »

I wouldn't trust a maths teacher to provide nursing care, so they should be paid less?

Depends on the individual really.

hawkelady

Graces7 wrote: »

Ok; that was not my reading of it, but that is how I and others feel re the strikes by nurses. No respect for them.

Let’s hope they return your feelings when you end up in hospital and show you no respect ! But they won’t , they will show you care . Horrible person

ILikeBananas

The Irish Times Politics podcast discussed this during the week. They thought that it might be a hard sell to the public based on that fact that, including allowances:

The average pay was €58k
80% of nurses are paid > €40k
Graduates start on €36k

I suspect that the union will tend to steer the conversation away from the above figures since the general public might lose support for the nurses if they discovered that they were being paid more than themselves.

road_high

ILikeBananas wrote: »

The Irish Times Politics podcast discussed this during the week. They thought that it might be a hard sell to the public based on that fact that, including allowances:
The average pay was €58k

80% of nurses are paid > €40k

Graduates start on €36k

I suspect that the union will tend to steer the conversation away from the above figures since the general public might lose support for the nurses if they discovered that they were being paid more than themselves.

They are good salaries by any reckoning.

L'prof

road_high wrote: »

They are good salaries by any reckoning.

On the face of it they are but that surely includes shiftwork and overtime. I wonder what their basic would be if they worked 9-5 Mon-Fri? For all their training they’re a long way off what doctors earn. I know factory workers with no 3rd level education on similar salaries after bonuses, overtime and shift premiums

Yillan

L'prof wrote: »

On the face of it they are but that surely includes shiftwork and overtime. I wonder what their basic would be if they worked 9-5 Mon-Fri? For all their training they’re a long way off what doctors earn. I know factory workers with no 3rd level education on similar salaries after bonuses, overtime and shift premiums

Are they?

James Brown

Tell me how wrote: »

That's being entirely disingenuous.

I think nurses need to be well paid for the service they provide.
If the average nurse earnings is 57K per annum, in my mind, that is well paid for the role.

What do you think?

No it's not. How many time is talk of the cost of living whittled down to the spongers getting Christmas bonus?
How often is talk of the HSE being in a state turned to a discussion on the quality of nurses/front line staff?
It happens more than some are willing to discuss policies or changing how things work IMO.

I think Nurses should fight for the salary they believe they need and deserve and any flaws with the HSE are an issue for policy makers to address not for front line workers to explain over wanting a raise.

Tell me how

Matt Barrett wrote: »

No it's not. How many time is talk of the cost of living whittled down to the spongers getting Christmas bonus?
How often is talk of the HSE being in a state turned to a discussion on the quality of nurses/front line staff?
It happens more than some are willing to discuss policies or changing how things work IMO.

I think Nurses should fight for the salary they believe they need and deserve and any flaws with the HSE are an issue for policy makers to address not for front line workers to explain over wanting a raise.

Can you respond to this query which I asked you please.

If the average nurse earnings is 57K per annum, in my mind, that is well paid for the role.

What do you think?

James Brown

Graces7 wrote: »

Good for her. No respect due to nurses who strike.

Based on the lack of respect given, the only recourse they have is to strike.

James Brown

Tell me how wrote: »

Can you respond to this query which I asked you please.

I disagree with the figure. There's a nurse on this thread no where near that. It's an average.
And reiterate, they have the right to strike and seek what they feel they need and I support them 100%.

When bank CEO or what ever gets massive raises despite losses and bailouts we hear about how that's what you have to do to get quality and so on, yet when workers try same they get the weight of all the issues associated with the health service. It's hypocrisy.

EDIT: There's your 'disingenuous' see below...

Dia1988

If nurses get paid starting 36k that's far too much already.

They're just being greedy moaning that they get paid pittance and how Doctors are paid way more. Reality check, they're not Doctors!!!

Tell me how

Matt Barrett wrote: »

I disagree with the figure. There's a nurse on this thread no where near that. It's an average.
And reiterate, they have the right to strike and seek what they feel they need and I support them 100%.

When bank CEO or what ever gets massive raises despite losses and bailouts we hear about how that's what you have to do to get quality and so on, yet when workers try same they get the weight of all the issues associated with the health service. It's hypocrisy.

EDIT: There's your 'disingenuous' see below...

Red bolded part. But no one has countered the figure. Phil Ni Sheaghdha, secretary of the INMO didn't do so and therefore I assume it is true.

If it is, what do you think? If you can point me to a reputable source showing that this average is not true then I will gladly read that.

As for the black bolded part. I do not agree with that either but we cannot just pay money to one group which will have to be found every year, will lead to similar demands from other groups and without targetting the inefficiencies in the system to ensure they do not feel overworked and so must leave. Money will not make someone stay in a job if they truly hate it.

Blue bolded part. Yes, such an opinion is not helpful to the discussion.

spodoinkle

Mad_maxx wrote: »

37 hours, average salary is 55k per annum not including overtime

lol b*llocks

my wife is a qualified nurse and now midwife for 14 years in total and nowhere near that

Dia1988

spodoinkle wrote: »

lol b*llocks

my wife is a qualified nurse and now midwife for 14 years in total and nowhere near that

What's she on then?