robinph wrote: » Go on and convince us that it is right to transfer race entries when it is specifically stated that it is not permitted on the entry rules.
robinph wrote: » The "security reasons" for photos and name and address details on Glastonbury tickets is specifically due to people taking things that they were not entitled to (entry to the festival) and that then risking the safety and future of the festival when numbers on site increased so much.
Djoucer wrote: » We’ve compared race entries to eating sandwiches, haircuts and now Glastonbury. Should probably start comparing them to other races that allow transfers. The crime rate would be dramatically reduced due to the number of thieves going straight.
Hurrache wrote: » You've ignored this twice now, I'll try again. If your mate gives you the use of a service which he can't use but has paid for, and you use it, lets say a cinema ticket, are you stealing if you go watch that movie? I think you've dug yourself into a hole by initially claiming that it's theft and aren't willing to accept it, but are rather doubling down on it, no matter how silly it makes the argument.
Djoucer wrote: » Should probably start comparing them to other races that allow transfers. .
robinph wrote: » But the races that allow transfers, well they allow transfers so there isn't any issues. But would people consider it OK to do an unofficial number swap for a race that does allow transfers, just they don't feel like paying the transfer fee?
robinph wrote: » So what would you call taking something that you don't have permission to make use of then?
bucketybuck wrote: » What is the hole? Your mate didn't have the right to give you the use of the ticket. Any contract was between him and the organisers, he might give you a piece of paper but that doesn't mean there is any agreement between you and the organisers. As such if you turn up and use their facilities then you are doing so without any authorisation. So what if your mate paid for the ticket, that is between him and them. What is between you and the organisers is a different thing altogether.
dublin runner wrote: » Some of the posts showcase the naivety of some when it comes to organising a race. Don't forget - most races are primarily volunteer led. Maybe think about that before forming an opinion.
Hurrache wrote: » So what law am I breaking
Hurrache wrote: » which will have the gardai arresting me for stealing?
Hurrache wrote: » I've been involved in running events (these days pretty much all with non profit events, actually not even that anymore as it's been a while), and when we do, and we have done so, find someone running under a different number we disqualify them for reasons we all understand. We don't seek financial or legal retribution for a non existent theft, because we haven't been robbed. But I don't think there's any requisite to form an opinion on this matter either way.
Hurrache wrote: » Nor should we be excluded from complaining about something because it's in the T&C's, it's the T&C's that people have issue with! To say it doesn't make sense to complain about it is an odd thing to say. I guess you don't complain about government policies or law because they're legislated for?
robinph wrote: » I don't see any hole. Maybe the word theft is too emotive a word, but if you have another term for making use of a service that you don't have permission to use then let us know:http://kbcdublinmarathon.ie/rules-and-regulations/https://www.virginmoneylondonmarathon.com/en-gb/general-conditions-entry/
Hurrache wrote: » Last post on this as we're going around in circles and boring everyone else, there is no law to prevent someone running under someone else's entry which has been paid for. They're not stealing anything, and to say so ad nauseam is ridiculous. Your own personal morals don't equate to law.
Hurrache wrote: » Plus there are no additional costs, financial or time(unless you go ahead and win a ladies race as a man), the race entry had already been paid for and everything around it processed.
Del2005 wrote: » You can't sign away your rights in a contact. Non transfer or sale of an item you bought would be against consumer law, except for the few exemptions.
robinph wrote: » But wouldn't that would only mean that you can go and ask that they let you transfer the number to someone else or ask for a refund, not that you can transfer the number privately without letting them know or that someone they have no contract with can take part in the race in your place?
bucketybuck wrote: » What has been bought? An item, or an agreement to provide a service?
Del2005 wrote: » An entry to a race in this thread.
bucketybuck wrote: » And is that an item or is it a service provided?
Del2005 wrote: » It doesn't matter. You can't restrict what someone does with either once they purchase it.
robinph wrote: » But what would actually happen is nobody gets the award, the woman thinks she finished 2nd and that the person finishing 1st just couldn't be bothered to hang around for their award. Or even if it is figured out before presenting on the day and the 4th woman across the line has already gone home by then because the online results say she's 4th, but then shes really 3rd and misses out on her moment of glory. How is that fair on her because some bloke couldn't be bothered to enter on time? Or the awards just get posted out to the wrong people and nobody knows any better. Only the really obvious errors such as a vf80 winning overall would get picked up at that point.
Lazare wrote: » The points you've made are all based on extreme rarities, the vast majority of swapping goes on unnoticed. To say it's theft is frankly ridiculous. Laughable.
HelenAnne wrote: » To get back to the men running on ladies numbers - obviously it's not a big deal, it's not like I'm running for a place in the Olympics, but I've missed out a few times because of men - once was just at a parkrun, where obviously there are no winners, but it's nice to be first finisher and see a '1' in the results. I made a big effort a couple of years ago to pass the two other women I could see ahead of me, but I was still down as '2' in the results because a man ran with a woman's barcode. (maybe a mistake, but he still pushed me down the rankings). Another time, I missed out on an age group prize because a man, running on his wife's number, finished ahead of me. The couple weren't there at the prize giving, so he wasn't able to clear up the issue, and they posted the prize out to her. The couple very kindly admitted the mistake and sent it back, and I got the prize (a voucher) in the post - but other members of my club also won prizes that day, and they got to go up and get them, and were in photos together on the club website, and I wasn't in any of them as I didn't know I'd won. Again, I know it's not a big deal, but they are the little annoyances of men running on women's numbers that I've experienced
M.m.m. wrote: » Good points you've made Helen and the only reasonable and relevant points made in favour of the issue since the thread opened. If it was me I would be furious and up like a light to name and shame. Did you know at the races themselves? I wouldn't have let it go if I made the effort to run fast like that. It is a big deal and precisely why a lot of women get sidelined and forgotten sometimes. It was up to you to speak up and get yourself put further up the rankings. Its obviously a big enough deal for you to make the effort to get to the front and pass out other runners so why let it go after that? Not knocking you personally because I know you're a good runner.
HelenAnne wrote: » PS re all the chat about transfers. I agree that it should be possible BUT a lot of races are run by clubs / volunteers and any extra service is extra (unpaid!) work for them. I'd suggest people who'd like to see transfers offered volunteer on the race committee, thus giving extra hands to the race and allowing them to offer more services.
