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Go-Ahead Dublin City Routes - Updates and Discussion

Stephen15

So since the last thread on this got closed and dosen't appear to be reopening any time soon. Heres a new one for you.

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Technocentral

Stephen15 wrote: »

Technocentral wrote: »

There own site has it down for Dec 2nd still, pretty poor.

That's from a press release from July

Yeah what I meant is no update on site. V poor website.

Stephen15

Technocentral wrote: »

Yeah what I meant is no update on site. V poor website.

It's a press release similar to a newspaper article they typically are not updated what they have done is released other newer press releases since. The website is a bit better now that they updated it however it dosen't take from the fact the website should be for corporate and recruitment purposes only and not for the general public to see route infomsame with DB.

There should be a single TFI webpage all info on city services in Dublin DB and GAI with timetables etc. similar to TFL. You don't have to go to separate websites to find out information about London buses whether it be Go-Ahead, Arriva or Stagecoach operated as it's all in the one place. Also the PDF timetables are user unfriendly.

punisher5112

The other day a ga bus over took and he left loads that were waiting.

I brought them up to catch it but all the flashing of the lights couldn't get them to stop.

It actually made them drive faster and disappeared off into the distance.....

They need to learn that is something we do when we have a passenger etc for the other bus.

Today I seen another with no saloon lights on, yesterday I seen a 2018 one with no working scrolls.....

Stephen15

punisher5112 wrote: »

The other day a ga bus over took and he left loads that were waiting.

I brought them up to catch it but all the flashing of the lights couldn't get them to stop.

It actually made them drive faster and disappeared off into the distance.....

They need to learn that is something we do when we have a passenger etc for the other bus.

Today I seen another with no saloon lights on, yesterday I seen a 2018 one with no working scrolls.....

That's unacceptable behaviour from the driver I would strongly advise you complain to Go-Ahead. I had an incident a couple of years ago when waiting for a 145 which was right behind a 46a I signalled tried to signal to the 145 driver that I wanted to get on his bus but the 46a driver thought I put my hand out for his bus meaning I missed the 145.

A few things I witnessed so far with GAI would a few weeks ago outside the library in Deansgrange while waiting for a 46a into town I saw a GAI bus pulled up out of service with the driver no where to be seen I assumed the bus was broken down however a few mins later the driver reappeared and another bus came along which I assumed was the replacement bus being driven by whom I assumed was a GAI inspector or a supervisor (whatever GAI call them) anyway the bus which I thought was broken down took the passengers waiting at the stop and returned to service as a 75 about 5 mins later after the driver and the inspector guy had a chat and a look around the bus I don't get why the driver fecked off and left his passengers in the cold. I always thought DB drivers weren't allowed to abandon buses until backup arrived.

Another thing I saw was an out of service GAI bus parked up on Crofton Road one stop before the DART station blocking up traffic who had to overtake or wait while the driver sat downstairs eating his lunch why he couldn't do it one stop up where the bus can pull in and not block up any any traffic I don't understand.

Yer Da sells Avon

punisher5112 wrote: »

They need to learn that is something we do when we have a passenger etc for the other bus.

Probably new and concentrating too much on just driving. Passing the test is one thing (and Go-Ahead has an excellent pass rate), but becoming completely comfortable with driving a 10.5 metre-long, 2.5 metre-wide vehicle takes time. Go-Ahead's biggest problem is that the vast majority of its drivers are only starting out and lack experience. It's a problem that will iron itself out in time.

punisher5112 wrote: »

Today I seen another with no saloon lights on, yesterday I seen a 2018 one with no working scrolls.....

I've been on Dublin Buses before where the driver had to be asked to switch the saloon lights on. These things happen.

Stephen15

Yer Da sells Avon wrote: »

I've been on Dublin Buses before where the driver had to be asked to switch the saloon lights on. These things happen.

Forget buses I've actually had to remind cinema employees on two ocassions now to turn the lights off when the film had already started

dashcamdanny

Yer Da sells Avon wrote: »

Probably new and concentrating too much on just driving. Passing the test is one thing (and Go-Ahead has an excellent pass rate), but becoming completely comfortable with driving a 10.5 metre-long, 2.5 metre-wide vehicle takes time. Go-Ahead's biggest problem is that the vast majority of its drivers are only starting out and lack experience. It's a problem that will iron itself out in time.

I've been on Dublin Buses before where the driver had to be asked to switch the saloon lights on. These things happen.

Probably an idiot driving more like. Hardly concentrating on anything. Driving faster to get away is hardly the behaviour of an inexperienced driver. It, in my opinion is a result of the low level of credentials Go-Ahead require to get the job in the first place.

The pass rate I hear from relatives of people that work there is 50%. Which admittedly is gossip.
Where did you hear they had an excellent pass rate?

Yer Da sells Avon

dashcamdanny wrote: »

The pass rate I hear from relatives of people that work there is 50%. Which admittedly is gossip.
Where did you hear they had an excellent pass rate?

I dont have any official stats, but the vast majority (I'd guess that it's over 70% - I've no idea how that compares with Dublin Bus) pass first time. And that's not gossip - I've witnessed it first-hand over the last three months. And almost everyone who fails seems to pass on their second attempt.

TallGlass

Seen a 17a earlier (assume it was based on where it was) no display on at all. Was really weird to see it off. Funny thing was passengers where boarding, magic bus.

Teething problems I suppose. Haven't seen any manic driving just yet.

Theres a few people giving the drivers a hard time, which I thing is more against the company. Give the lads a chance.

Once they don't end up like the Dublin Coach lunatic drivers, in fairness someone must have had a word as there driving on the m50 has come down a notch or two.

john boye

Is there something up with the displays on the SG type? An awful lot of them don't seem to work and it seems to happen on that type much more than the others.

Stephen15

john boye wrote: »

Is there something up with the displays on the SG type? An awful lot of them don't seem to work and it seems to happen on that type much more than the others.

Haven't seen that myself. I remember back in the day you'd see the odd bus going around with a makeshift printed or better still hand written display however I haven't seen that in about 10 years now.

I was in Rome a few years ago and noticed plenty of buses with a slip in the window for bus lot's of the buses over there look like they're on their last legs. Plenty of defective buses around that city with bodywork in bad condition, windows completely etched with graffiti and broken down buses abandoned on the side of the road. ATAC is like Dublin Coach on steroids.

john boye

Stephen15 wrote: »

Haven't seen that myself. I remember back in the day you'd see the odd bus going around with a makeshift printed or better still hand written display however I haven't seen that in about 10 years now.

I was in Rome a few years ago and noticed plenty of buses with a slip in the window for bus lot's of the buses over there look like they're on their last legs. Plenty of defective buses around that city with bodywork in bad condition, windows completely etched with graffiti and broken down buses abandoned on the side of the road. ATAC is like Dublin Coach on steroids.

The side and rear displays especially seem to be out very often, I see it almost every day.

dublinman1990

I was walking around Dun Laoghaire yesterday & I have never seen this problem yet with displays having outages on the SGs. The buses that are affected may be a minority in GAI's fleet. Also I did see a Not in Service GAI SG with a Phase 4 sign stuck on the front windscreen approaching the traffic lights near York Road & Cumberland Street yesterday. It may have been doing route training on either the 17 or 114 after it left Dun Laoghaire.

Yer Da sells Avon

dublinman1990 wrote: »

Also I did see a Not in Service GAI SG with a Phase 4 sign stuck on the front windscreen approaching the traffic lights near York Road & Cumberland Street yesterday. It may have been doing route training on either the 17 or 114 after it left Dun Laoghaire.

It was doing route training on the 75. Some newly painted ex-DB buses have been set aside for Phase 4, but are being used for route training on existing routes in the meantime.

Here we go

.SL10. wrote: »

We MUST Finish Go-Ahead

I understand alot of people don't like what I'm posting and that's ok but I would really appreciate if they didn't make up stories and tell other people I'm saying things when I'm clearly not. I would also appreciate the toxic messages and threats to stop.

Are Dublin Bus perfect?? Hell No! But they don't deserve what the NTA and Government are putting them through. And I'm only trying to look out for the Drivers and make sure their name isn't dragged through the mud.

I have argued with DB drivers as well because they think all this will just go away without them doing anything!

It will go away but only when the NTA and Government have u all out of jobs and when Go Ahead are the new DB !!

Thing is nobody will do anything until there's God Forbid a tragic crash involving Go Ahead.

The majority of their management is under 27 they do not Vet their drivers there's no 12 week review! What part of that do u think is right???

DB's hands are tied not one of them lads can do anything including their management.

It's up to us THE PUBLIC the people who get on Dublin busses everyday to make a stand and do what's right! And that's to stop the PRIVATIZATION OF DUBLIN BUS!

Get up off your asses and stop waiting for other people to save a company that's been getting u around for the last 30 odd years!

PLEASE SHARE

AND LET THE GOVERNMENT AND THE NTA KNOW THEY'RE NOT PUSHING DUB BUS OUT!

Just a few things
1 no mater your opinion your entitled to it and no one should abuse you for it so I hope that stops

2 I'm not sure what the nta have done to DB or there employes all jobs are kept as are there terms and conditions and there increseing there rote frequency and new routes and need to employ even more staff which is a good thing for them no? Drivers effected still have there job and all rights and paid a handsome disturbance fee up to 10 k just to learn new routes

As for driver compatence that isn't for go ahead or DB to decide they both take drivers who pass the national driving test and pass

12 week review go ahead drivers are all on a 6 month probation if they are not up to standard they will be let go and all busses are fitted with CCTV and senceors which measure speed breaking time and GPS positioning so if a driver takes a wrong turn breaks the speed limit or breaks to harshly or are 30 mins late on route head office know

Stephen15

Here we go wrote: »

Just a few things
1 no mater your opinion your entitled to it and no one should abuse you for it so I hope that stops.

2 I'm not sure what the nta have done to DB or there employes all jobs are kept as are there terms and conditions and there increseing there rote frequency and new routes and need to employ even more staff which is a good thing for them no? Drivers effected still have there job and all rights and paid a handsome disturbance fee up to 10 k just to learn new routes

As for driver compatence that isn't for go ahead or DB to decide they both take drivers who pass the national driving test and pass

12 week review go ahead drivers are all on a 6 month probation if they are not up to standard they will be let go and all busses are fitted with CCTV and senceors which measure speed breaking time and GPS positioning so if a driver takes a wrong turn breaks the speed limit or breaks to harshly or are 30 mins late on route head office know

I'd like to call out out on a few points there. I'd just like to point out that the DB drivers who have had their routes switched have been changed from being marked in meaning they drive a set route every day and know their hours and days on a week by week basis unless they swap shifts with other drivers. They are now spare meaning they are given a text 24 hours in advance telling them what their hours are for the next day and what route they'll be driving for the day although some have now been marked on other routes but not all. Also the compensation package was 5k not 10k I believe.

I'm not sure what's the story with Go-Ahead now but I believe that CCTV on DB buses is only to be used if there is an incident and is not used to babysit drivers or monitor their performance and is only to be used when the bus is either involved in an accident or there is crime, anti-social behaviour committed or the Gardai request it in order to persue criminals or missing persons etc. Go-Ahead buses are the same spec as DB so I would their under similar arrangements as to whether or not they can monitor driver using it or not.

Yer Da sells Avon

Stephen15 wrote: »

Also the compensation package was 5k not 10k I believe.

It's mad that they got compensated at all, tbh. I'm no begrudger, but the phrase 'jammy bastards' springs to mind.

Annasopra

Yer Da sells Avon wrote: »

They have been; it just takes time to learn to use them properly when in service, dealing with road conditions, traffic, passengers, etc. Dublin Bus drivers will have experienced the same difficulties when they started. The difference is that Go-Ahead have lots of drivers starting out at the same time, so mistakes are inevitably more noticeable.

Revenue protection is not the driver's job.

My experience is they clearly havent had adequate use of machine training

Stephen15

Yer Da sells Avon wrote: »

It's mad that they got compensated at all, tbh. I'm no begrudger, but the phrase 'jammy bastards' springs to mind.

How's it jammy they've had their conditions made much worse by being changed from marked in to spare.

Yer Da sells Avon

Joeytheparrot wrote: »

My experience is they clearly havent had adequate use of machine training

All drivers are shown how to use the ticket machines - in a classroom, which isn't ideal. The machines themselves are ancient technology and aren't difficult to use. It takes a little bit of time to get used to using them in real-time conditions, that's all.

Stephen15 wrote: »

How's it jammy they've had their conditions made much worse by being changed from marked in to spare. T

Their job is still the same - turn up on time, point the vehicle in the right direction and bring people to their destinations. Still though, fair play to them and their unions for having achieved the kind of excellent working conditions that require that sort of compensation.

Stephen15

Yer Da sells Avon wrote: »

Their job is still the same - turn up on time, point the vehicle in the right direction and bring people to their destinations. Still though, fair play to them and their unions for having achieved the kind of excellent working conditions that require that sort of compensation.

The conditions of spare drivers are far worse than ones who are marked in. They they will only find out their hours 24 hours in advance over having set hours unless they swap shifts or take overtime. Spare drivers don't know their hours so can't plan their lives accordingly.

Here we go

Stephen15 wrote: »

I'd like to call out out on a few points there. I'd just like to point out that the DB drivers who have had their routes switched have been changed from being marked in meaning they drive a set route every day and know their hours and days on a week by week basis unless they swap shifts with other drivers. They are now spare meaning they are given a text 24 hours in advance telling them what their hours are for the next day and what route they'll be driving for the day although some have now been marked on other routes but not all. Also the compensation package was 5k not 10k I believe.

I'm not sure what's the story with Go-Ahead now but I believe that CCTV on DB buses is only to be used if there is an incident and is not used to babysit drivers or monitor their performance and is only to be used when the bus is either involved in an accident or there is crime, anti-social behaviour committed or the Gardai request it in order to persue criminals or missing persons etc. Go-Ahead buses are the same spec as DB so I would their under similar arrangements as to whether or not they can monitor driver using it or not.

Sorry I would of said up to 10k with it being based on how long a driver was working that duty with 10k being the max but others with less time getting less and I’m open for correction it being 2/3k to5k or 10k if on duty long anuf

As for bing made spare I would of assumed that with other routes being made more frequent and more routes coming online these drivers would of been first in th q to be rosterd on to those spots you can see all jobs advertised in dB for Jan are for the weekend night shifts

And cctv is up to managements descretion But is only one way in which drivers are monerterd gps tells them in real time of every wrong turn and what road there on and what speed there doing in 30/50/60 zones and when you break harshly

AlekSmart

Stephen15 wrote: »

The conditions of spare drivers are far worse than ones who are marked in. They they will only find out their hours 24 hours in advance over having set hours unless they swap shifts or take overtime. Spare drivers don't know their hours so can't plan their lives accordingly.

This is not correct.

There is no difference in T's & C's between spare or marked-in positions.
Marking-In is a purely internal staff management system,which is not unique to Dublin Bus,and which,in essence,is now feeding into GAI's system after the issues which arose during the initial round of BMO takeup.

Spare staff have,for some time now,been on a 48 Hour notice period for duty allocation,with a number of such staff also now working a set roster over a 10 week period.

There is a wide variety of duties,which drivers can,and do,seek to work on a voluntary basis,or by arrangement with Management,on an individual basis to allow for personal circumstances which may arise.

Reading some posts on this topic,would give a reader the idea that there are Camp Kommandants and patrolling guards FORCING inmates to work 24-7 with only a bowl of gruel to keep them going.

In addition,it is innacurate to suggest that staff "don't know their hours" as the shift patterns are essentially predictable within a particular envelope.

Anybody entering the Public Transport arena,MUST accept that the working patterns & Hours will never be as the rest of the working world operates,and this is made VERY clear at the outset of the recruitment process.

dashcamdanny

Here we go wrote: »

And cctv is up to managements descretion But is only one way in which drivers are monerterd gps tells them in real time of every wrong turn and what road there on and what speed there doing in 30/50/60 zones and when you break harshly

It is not at managements desecration. They cannot use cctv for anything other than accident investigation, criminal behaviour or requests by the Garda .

The telematics you speak of is not fitted to busses (yet), although they do have the capability to be fitted by software updates. Such as harse manoeuvring and speed.

As far as I know, they can only monitor GPS through the AVL.

dashcamdanny

AlekSmart wrote: »

This is not correct.

There is no difference in T's & C's between spare or marked-in positions.
Marking-In is a purely internal staff management system,which is not unique to Dublin Bus,and which,in essence,is now feeding into GAI's system after the issues which arose during the initial round of BMO takeup.

Spare staff have,for some time now,been on a 48 Hour notice period for duty allocation,with a number of such staff also now working a set roster over a 10 week period.

There is a wide variety of duties,which drivers can,and do,seek to work on a voluntary basis,or by arrangement with Management,on an individual basis to allow for personal circumstances which may arise.

Reading some posts on this topic,would give a reader the idea that there are Camp Kommandants and patrolling guards FORCING inmates to work 24-7 with only a bowl of gruel to keep them going.

In addition,it is innacurate to suggest that staff "don't know their hours" as the shift patterns are essentially predictable within a particular envelope.

Anybody entering the Public Transport arena,MUST accept that the working patterns & Hours will never be as the rest of the working world operates,and this is made VERY clear at the outset of the recruitment process.

this could be argured. Earlys and lates have a massive window. Your late duty start could mean anything between 1pm and 8pm.

Dutys for a spare man are worse in general. Although everyone in the garages get their fair share of long duties .
Getting knocked down to spare is not a small thing.

AlekSmart

dashcamdanny wrote: »

this could be argured. Earlys and lates have a massive window.Your late duty start could mean anything between 1pm and 8pm.
Duties for a spare man are worse in general. Although everyone in the garages get their fair share of long duties .
Getting knocked down to spare is not a small thing.

Which is why the such staff were compensated,as part of the BMO process,for reverting back spare.

Those Drivers with a strong enough attachment to their route,could have availed of the TUPE protections,and transferred to GAI,but obviously unanimously decided that the Spare duties available,represented on balance,a more attractive prospect.

The ongoing expansion of BAC's services,currently in the process of reallocating displaced Drivers,will,by early 2019 be well completed,with further growth then translating into additional marked-in positions.

In spite of the many and vocal naysayers to be found on Social Media,and in canteens across the company's locations,Bus Atha Cliath has never been in a stronger or better position than today.

The methods of operation,and accumulated experience,which were apparently unattractive for the NTA,have now been shown as somewhat more in tune with actual operational needs than perhaps expected.

Without doubt,the NTA's initial decisions on GAI operations have substantially reduced the credibility of the Authority,who were,at all times fully aware of Bus Atha Cliath's specific operating procedures on effected routes.

Bizzarre notions that a change of operator would,of itself,knock 30 minutes of a peak time journey on a busy route,or that interlining drivers between routes,without referencing known scheduling reality,are only a fraction of the issues which have left GAI,rather unfairly,as the focus of Public dissatisfaction.

Whether the Authority has the capability,or desire,to review and amend its own procedures,is a moot point,however failure to do so,could significantly reduce interest levels in any further Market Opening forays.

Companies,particularly privately owned ones,such as Go-Ahead,do not like to see their brand image held up to public derision,when they themselves are not directly responsible.

Whether the NTA as currently structured,are capable of comprehending this,remains to be seen.

dublinman1990

Bus stops along Carysfort Avenue have been updated with the blue roundels. A small amount of Bus stops around Blackrock have been updated with them. But most of them in Blackrock still have the Dublin Bus logos displayed on the top of them. Go Ahead Ireland had an SG out doing route training on the 114 going out from Blackrock Station on Tuesday afternoon.

Stephen15

dublinman1990 wrote: »

Bus stops along Carysfort Avenue have been updated with the blue roundels. A small amount of Bus stops around Blackrock have been updated with them. But most of them in Blackrock still have the Dublin Bus logos displayed on the top of them. Go Ahead Ireland had an SG out doing route training on the 114 going out from Blackrock Station on Tuesday afternoon.

The 114 is getting double deckers not single deckers as had been earlier reported. The single deckers will be on routes 104, 220, 236, 238, 239 and 270. The 17, 114 and surprisingly the 161 will be operated by double deckers, I wonder were there similar issues with the streetlites in Tibradden as there were in Killiney with the 59.

I'd say the 114 is getting double deckers as they'll be working with the 17 and 114 on the same board out of Blackrock similar to the way the 45a, 63 and 75 are all on the same board in DL and the 184 and 185 are on the same board in Bray

Qrt

Stephen15 wrote: »

The 114 is getting double deckers not single deckers as had been earlier reported. The single deckers will be on routes 104, 220, 236, 238, 239 and 270. The 17, 114 and surprisingly the 161 will be operated by double deckers, I wonder were there similar issues with the streetlites in Tibradden as there were in Killiney with the 59.

I'd say the 114 is getting double deckers as they'll be working with the 17 and 114 on the same board out of Blackrock similar to the way the 45a, 63 and 75 are all on the same board in DL and the 184 and 185 are on the same board in Bray

The 270?? Single deckers?? I was once waiting for a bus into town from Blanch SC and I’m pretty sure the 270 beside me was a double decker with standing room only...

Stephen15

Qrt wrote: »

The 270?? Single deckers?? I was once waiting for a bus into town from Blanch SC and I’m pretty sure the 270 beside me was a double decker with standing room only...

I don't know enough about this route to be able to comment on it further. I know it's an hourly service so perhaps if they increased the frequency the route may be able to cope with single deckers operating on it.