Graces7 wrote: » Sorry what do you mean by why? Because they are like a foreign nation in many ways. Would you eg ask French people to stop being French? To change eg food, language? At present the attitudes expressed are exacerbating the situation. Travellers are never going to conform to ordinary Irish standards. It is not in their ... culture.. to do so. Not in their makeup. That was why the govt(?) statement was made about them being a different culture etc. sorry; too weary and in pain to say more as some of you are jumping on me and I need all my wits to repsond. properly But clesarly the current attitide is getting nowhere. They will never conform as you are seeking. blessings and peace
Graces7 wrote: » DavidLyons_ wrote: » I suspect certain posters like to try to derail threads (for their own inexplicable ends). Part of that tactic is to provoke responses from their fellow posters that they can then report and get the said poster banned. It’s especially noticeable when they don’t have a leg to stand on and are bereft of a counter-argument. The way it was put made that the only logical conclusion and I am glad the idea shocked... You cannot suggest changing benefits or withdrawing financial support when there are children, born or unborn, at stake. Because it is always the children who suffer most and are left at a loss.
DavidLyons_ wrote: » I suspect certain posters like to try to derail threads (for their own inexplicable ends). Part of that tactic is to provoke responses from their fellow posters that they can then report and get the said poster banned. It’s especially noticeable when they don’t have a leg to stand on and are bereft of a counter-argument.
Graces7 wrote: » The way it was put made that the only logical conclusion and I am glad the idea shocked... You cannot suggest changing benefits or withdrawing financial support when there are children, born or unborn, at stake. Because it is always the children who suffer most and are left at a loss.
Gravelly wrote: » Why though?
Graces7 wrote: » Yes I get all that but noone is making any suggestions that do not involve cutting existing benefits that would rebound on existing children? And probably as this is a cultural heritage thing, you are aiming too high in wanting them to change? what you call "the cycle" is their way of life for generations. Any changes would have to be subtle and not trying to make them conform to "our" way of life. It seems as if folk are expecting them to stop being Travellers? And current ideas are clearly not working. Their culture has to be respected? Accepted? Deal within it? You will never get them to act as if they were not Travellers. Sorry; not putting this very well; tired and unwell today. But is always reads as if you are trying to make Travellers into ordinary Irish people? They are different Foreigners in many ways and with different priorities?
Graces7 wrote: » Their culture has to be respected? Accepted? Deal within it?
Bridget Mushy Viper wrote: » No, their answer isn't that. They didn't say that whatsoever. And you know they didn't. Why must your posts persist in being so inflammatory and dishonest?
Rex Tasteless Gutter wrote: » Nobody is proposing starving children. The question is one of incentives. Half of Traveller women have 5 or more children, while only one in 20 settled women has five or more children. And when it comes to even larger families, 13 percent of Traveller women have 8+ children, versus only 0.3 percent of settled women. If a Traveller girl follows the typical pattern of leaving school before the age of 15, getting married in her teens, getting pregnant immediately and starting to pop out children -- then yes, it's highly likely that the state will pay to raise those children because the parents are likely to be uneducated and jobless. We also know that children raised in a culture of welfare dependency are more likely to repeat the pattern themselves. So, how do we break the cycle? How do we encourage Travellers to complete their educations, get jobs, postpone marriage, and reproduce responsibly? It's clear that throwing money at the problem only perpetuates the problem.
NIMAN wrote: » Get you out of here with your facts and common sense.
Bridget Mushy Viper wrote: » Graces7 wrote: » so your answer is? starve the children? No, their answer isn't that. They didn't say that whatsoever. And you know they didn't. Why must your posts persist in being so inflammatory and dishonest?
Graces7 wrote: » so your answer is? starve the children?
sightband wrote: » Maggie seems to have f*cked off into oblivion as far as media spotlight goes since she was outed for this. It’s a shame, she was doing wonders in highlighting everything that is wrong with her ethnicity and the system, she was also highly entertaining. I’d like to know how the house hunting is going.
DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: » Just getting a basic honest job would be enough for me.
Feisar wrote: » I do believe I stated this before, welfare is a tax we pay to keep people down. Give a person a fish rather than teaching them to fish.
Rex Tasteless Gutter wrote: » According to figures published recently by the Irish Times:If a Traveller (married with adult dependent and five children) worked as a building labourer at the registered employment agreement rate of €13.77 per hour, his take-home pay for working 39 hours a week for a year would be €25,594 – €806 less than the jobseekers’ allowance. Amazingly, the Traveller taking the building job would also lose the medical card for the family because the income limit for the medical card for a couple with five children is only €24,206. It's clear that because of the way the Irish welfare system is designed, larger families (and the average Traveller couple has five children) are often better off on welfare, especially when additional perks such as medical cards, social housing, etc., are factored in. So how is the welfare system "helping" Travellers? It's clearly keeping them stuck in a poverty trap where they more of an incentive to remain on welfare and keep popping out babies than to work.
whisky_galore wrote: » Will any of these kids go to college or university, get an apprenticeship or otherwise become a productive member of society? Unless by a small miracle I fcukin' doubt it very much. Suckle off the test of the State for their lifetimes would be more like it.
Rex Tasteless Gutter wrote: » So how is the welfare system "helping" Travellers? .
Rex Tasteless Gutter wrote: » It's clearly keeping them stuck in a poverty trap where they more of an incentive to remain on welfare and keep popping out babies than to work.
sbsquarepants wrote: » :eek::eek::D:D
Roger Hassenforder wrote: » I think the answer is to stop incentivising people dependant on the state from having more children, inceasing this dependancy.
whisky_galore wrote: » Will any of these kids go to college or university, get an apprenticeship or otherwise become a productive member of society?
Roger Hassenforder wrote: » I think the answer is to stop incentivising people dependant on the state from having more children, inceasing this dependancy. Existing kids shouldnt starve, but these people would have to take responsibility for their family planning. I for one am sick of paying for the likes Margaret Cash and her clown car vagina. I would love more kids but we cant afford them. Why should i be paying for her failure to be responsible.
