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Brexit discussion thread V - No Pic/GIF dumps please

Rhineshark

kuro68k wrote: »

The British government is going to take it right to the cliff edge and hope that someone else compromises. Of course they have their excuses already lined up if no-one does, only real question is who they will blame.

1. The EU
2. Remainers
3. Ireland
4. Corbyn

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Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo

theguzman wrote: »

The pontificating of Bob Geldof on the Thames alone hardened the resolve of thousands of voters to side with Brexit.

Bob Geldof protesting against Brexit is the equivalent of Farage coming over to Ireland and advocating for a no vote on an EU Treaty. It is simply going to force a certain percentage to immediately take the opposing view.

theguzman

The same rules and monetary policy for Greece and Finland is a grotesque example of how the EU is totally flawed. Two different economies with different cultures.

cryptocurrency

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Hmmm, so the 2016 referendum shouldn’t have been held then since the UK voted 2 to 1 to stay in the EEC back in 1975?

No he is saying they can have a vote every 40 years to change back. The EU will be gone by then

cryptocurrency

An Ciarraioch wrote: »

You do realise Syriza originated as the result of a schism within the official Greek Communist Party? If they (and Italy) hadn't fiddled the books to meet the euro convergence criteria, and had made the slightest effort to crack down on tax evasion, the country would never have ended up in a mess.

Fiddled the books or not, it just shows the EU doesn’t do the right checks at the time and then once the countries are in they are owned. The EU must have had an idea but still the country accumulation of Greece and Italy was too much to resist.

[Deleted User]

theguzman wrote: »

Basically there should be another referendum until the democratic will of the people is overwritten. That is not democracy that is a diktat from a Dictatorship.

Hmmm, so the 2016 referendum shouldn’t have been held then since the UK voted 2 to 1 to stay in the EEC back in 1975?

Water John

Doubt Varioufakis agrees with the two of you. Most would say Greece was hauled into line at the behest of the banks. Goldman Sachs are the ones who profited from the Greek economic collapse.
You are so far removed from the reality of what is going on, I won't be engaging further with either Currency or Guz.

fash

cryptocurrency wrote: »

EU is communist but still has the thin veil of just socialism for now but these speed of its march to communism isn’t fast enough for Corbyn.
Corbyn wants Brexit so he can seize assets, land and start re-education on day one. They are all dangerous nutters.

fash wrote: »

...

I am still waiting for your detailed response to my post here

An Ciarraioch

theguzman wrote: »

cryptocurrency wrote: »

The parliament is named after a communist. The constitution was written by a communist. The worship communists. It’s gonna eat itself and before you know it like all socialists when they lose the grip of things they will become more and more totalitarian until before you know it they are putting “bad eggs” up against the wall.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xg7JwbJfWA

The problem with communism is it stifles development and eventually they run out of other peoples money to spend. Look at the utterly disgraceful way Greece was treated by the EU during the sovereign debt crisis.

You do realise Syriza originated as the result of a schism within the official Greek Communist Party? If they (and Italy) hadn't fiddled the books to meet the euro convergence criteria, and had made the slightest effort to crack down on tax evasion, the country would never have ended up in a mess.

cryptocurrency

Water John wrote: »

This Coummunist construct that Corbyn is against because it won't allow state aid and won't allow the state to move business into state ownership?
Most people accuse the EU of being a Capitalist construct.

EU is communist but still has the thin veil of just socialism for now but these speed of its march to communism isn’t fast enough for Corbyn.
Corbyn wants Brexit so he can seize assets, land and start re-education on day one. They are all dangerous nutters.

LeinsterDub

theguzman wrote: »

The problem with communism is it stifles development and eventually they run out of other peoples money to spend. Look at the utterly disgraceful way Greece was treated by the EU during the sovereign debt crisis.

What has the alleged communism of the EU got to do with the Greek debt crisis? The paranoid delusions of some on this thread are truly worrying.

theguzman

cryptocurrency wrote: »

The parliament is named after a communist. The constitution was written by a communist. The worship communists. It’s gonna eat itself and before you know it like all socialists when they lose the grip of things they will become more and more totalitarian until before you know it they are putting “bad eggs” up against the wall.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xg7JwbJfWA

The problem with communism is it stifles development and eventually they run out of other peoples money to spend. Look at the utterly disgraceful way Greece was treated by the EU during the sovereign debt crisis.

An Ciarraioch

Meanwhile, back in the world of reality, the DUP are abstaining on every finance bill vote tonight, which suggests the supply and confidence agreement is virtually dead:

http://twitter.com/Peston/status/1064605627031396352

Water John

This Coummunist construct that Corbyn is against because it won't allow state aid and won't allow the state to move business into state ownership?
Most people accuse the EU of being a Capitalist construct.

cryptocurrency

LeinsterDub wrote: »

So the EU so both too stuck in it's ways and changing too much. This is brexit in a nutshell for you.

The parliament is named after a communist. The constitution was written by a communist. The worship communists. It’s gonna eat itself and before you know it like all socialists when they lose the grip of things they will become more and more totalitarian until before you know it they are putting “bad eggs” up against the wall.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xg7JwbJfWA

theguzman

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Report the posts please rather than bringing it up on thread please. Ditto for throwing around accusations of anyone being a bot.

Sure thing, thanks for that.

Water John

BTW a correction on earlier, Teresa Villiers says she has not submitted a letter. This ERG haven't a bloody clue, even what their own ardent supporters are doing.

LeinsterDub

cryptocurrency wrote: »

It’s the constant change that makes remain an utterly insane idea.

So the EU so both too stuck in it's ways and changing too much. This is brexit in a nutshell for you.

ancapailldorcha

theguzman wrote: »

I was accused of being a Russian bot because I logged in at evening time.

Report the posts please rather than bringing it up on thread please. Ditto for throwing around accusations of anyone being a bot.

theguzman

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

No more of this nonsense please.

I was accused of being a Russian bot because I logged in at evening time.

cryptocurrency

LeinsterDub wrote: »

The EU and it's predecessors have constantly reformed. If you want a lack of reform I'd suggest having a look at the house of lords and the joke that is PMQs

It’s the constant change that makes remain an utterly insane idea. The EU has changed a huge amount since the UK joined in the 70s and the nation hasn’t been given no say and any vote now to remain would be another extended period watching helplessly from the side lines as it marches to federalization. Remain is the most unacceptable option on any vote without it clearly noting a substantial number of ideas being mooted by the EU triggering another referendum in the UK.
EU army ... to the people
Tax harmonization... to the people
Federalization.., To the people
Euro... to the people
New members.... to the people
The next junker ... direct to the people
Refugee quotas ...to the people
Bail out of memeber states ... to the people

And so on and on , they want the veto gone so remain is not an option

That is the only option to remain on a ballot

ancapailldorcha

theguzman wrote: »

It is night-time here in Siberia comrade.

No more of this nonsense please.

Spook_ie

An Ciarraioch wrote: »

RTE article on the Gib story:

https://www.rte.ie/news/brexit/2018/1119/1011805-brexit-transition-barnier/

So it would seem that if you're an EU country you can have bilateral talks about Gibraltar but if you're an EU country you can't have bilateral talks about NI, who would've thunk it!

LeinsterDub

theguzman wrote: »

The made up their mind for whatever reason they choose, open-doors immigration played a huge part in it as did David Cameron's failed attempt where he went to the EU to seek a better deal for the UK and they have him nothing.

The EU don't compromise nor do they reform, it is anti-Democratic system for centralising power away from member states directly to Brussels where quislings will do the bidding of Merkel and Macron.

The EU and it's predecessors have constantly reformed. If you want a lack of reform I'd suggest having a look at the house of lords and the joke that is PMQs

An Ciarraioch

cryptocurrency wrote: »

Spook_ie wrote: »

And according to Sky news, rumblings from Spain over Gibraltar.

They’ve been rumbling for years.

RTE article on the Gib story:

https://www.rte.ie/news/brexit/2018/1119/1011805-brexit-transition-barnier/

SimonTemplar

What seems more undemocratic:

A referendum for leaving the EU with absolutely no concrete specifics on what that entails, and therefore open to lies, misinterpretations and unkeepable promises.

A referendum for leaving the EU with a detailed description on what a post-Brexit relationship with the EU would look like.

Enzokk

theguzman wrote: »

The pontificating of Bob Geldof on the Thames alone hardened the resolve of thousands of voters to side with Brexit.

People are idiots. They need to be saved from themselves sometimes. Look at this example,

Leave-supporting Llanelli left reeling as manufacturing industry moves out due to Brexit

The Welsh town of Llanelli – which voted 56.7 per cent to leave the EU in the referendum – has been left reeling after a major manufacturer upped sticks due to Brexit.

Global firm Schaeffler announced this week that it is to close its plant in Llanelli due to uncertainty over Britain’s departure from the European Union.

The closure was described as the “tremor that will lead to the Brexit earthquake” in the Welsh Assembly, with Juergen Ziegler, the company’s regional CEO, saying that the “need to plan for various complex scenarios” due to Brexit had played a part in their decision to leave Wales.

The warnings were given to people but they were branded as project fear. Now that the effects are known the Brexiteers are trying to sell to people that they should have actually listened to the warnings that were given. The fact that they branded the same warnings as nothing to be worried about is to be ignored.

I don't think it is unkind to say that anybody that persists with the idea that what they voted for in 2016 was explained to them is living in an alternate reality. It is obvious that due to the lies that were told and the law breaking that the Leave campaigns conducted during the campaign that the decision should be set aside and a new referendum should be run.

blanch152

theguzman wrote: »

Totally different situations with 16 years between referenda. The previous referenda sought to further tighten the restrictions on Abortion which was rejected in 2002, wheras this year the trend towards liberalisation continued. So actually the will of the people continued and strengthened from 2002 which contradicts your entire point.

Actually there were six different referenda on abortion in Ireland, some passed, some not.

Situations change, so you need to check views.

The situation has changed dramatically regarding Brexit since the referendum took place. What was a leap into the unknown is now clear, and a check that the people still want to take that leap seems sensible.

Is there something you fear?

ancapailldorcha

theguzman wrote: »

...directly to Brussels where quislings will do the bidding of Merkel and Macron.

Can you substantiate this please?

theguzman

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

And the rest of the 17.4 million?

The made up their mind for whatever reason they choose, open-doors immigration played a huge part in it as did David Cameron's failed attempt where he went to the EU to seek a better deal for the UK and they have him nothing.

The EU don't compromise nor do they reform, it is anti-Democratic system for centralising power away from member states directly to Brussels where quislings will do the bidding of Merkel and Macron.

ancapailldorcha

theguzman wrote: »

The pontificating of Bob Geldof on the Thames alone hardened the resolve of thousands of voters to side with Brexit.

And the rest of the 17.4 million?